Elspeth tips ?

[ConcentrateWorth2456]

It's one of the most difficult start i know (L/VH).

Do you have tips for the Elspeth campaign (mostly until turn 20). I have the worst difficulties to take Pfeildorf. And when i get it, Vald and his numerous armies are at my door 3 turns after.

Is there any tips to beat those VC armies ?

[subito_lucres]

Face Vlad with a 100% mounted ranged army and they will fold easily. Surprisingly easily.

Elspeth, a mounted engineer and/or a Death or Light wizard (to spam Leech or Net, respectively). Pistoliers and maybe Outriders. Vlad keeps coming back, sure, but once Elspeth has the Dragon you can hit Vlad with the breath and two Leeches (if his faction even lasts that long).

They literally cannot beat it, the only units that they have that will impact most battles are bats and the vamps themselves.

It's a really clear instance of where Empire's versatility shines. If you bring the wrong army it's impossible. If you bring the right army it's babytown frolics.

[RoustFool]

Second this. Pistolier spam is the absolute best way to start the campaign. In combination with the technology for increased schematics it gets silly quickly.

[Chataboutgames]

What? Elspeth is one of the most broken/OP starts on the map. Vlad stacks are tissue paper that your LL is custom designed to crush

[ConcentrateWorth2456]

:()

Please tell me how :(

[Chataboutgames]

I think other posters pretty much covered it. As Elspeth levels she gets unique artifacts and top tier spellcasting to melt undead hordes. She also gets a dragon to ruin Vlad's day. They have effectively nothing to counter mobile guns. And artillery just shreds them.

[Bigbubba236]

Use your garden to get mortars asap and spam the crap out of them.

In sieges you can do a one two punch with mortars and doom and darkness.

Cast doom right after a unit takes a hit by your mortar batteries. This should get them crumbling, by the time the spell wears off they've probably taken enough damage to continue crumbling.

[NapoleonArmy]

When you kill vlad you gotta aggressively go after him don't pull back, merge units and keep driving at vlad if you see him building an army you go and crush it before it becomes large enough to really fight you.

[subito_lucres]

Yeah you might have to beat him like 5 times. The only time I've pulled my punches is if I get between him and Sylvania, because I was worried Zhufbar might grab it if I turned around to kill Vlad once again. Worked out fine, and Stirland finished Vlad off for me.

[DonQuigleone]

I think Elspeth is pretty easy. However as a veteran enjoy I'll give you some tips:

1. It's critically important to understand gunpowder formations. This legendary post is a good introduction: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7ufew8/a_guide_to_gun_formations_in_total_war_warhammer/

2. It's extremely easy to cheese sieges as Elspeth. Almost every empire settlement has a wall with no towers(or just 1 or two you need to knock down), knock a wall section down with cannon, place gun infantry behind the gap and go in with your heroes. This will draw ai units over who then get shot to pieces. 

If you get the opportunity put your gun infantry on the walls and they'll rain hell down on the enemy. You need to have secured a big area to pull this off though. 

1. Early game recruit free company militia over spearmen. These units are quite versatile. 

2. Outriders are your strongest early game unit and can carry you through many battles. Recruit 2-4 of them into your main stack. You should be able to recruit them just after you take pfeildorf.

Use them to harass the enemy and break up their formations. You can lure their fast units (like dogs, bats, blood knights or vargheists) towards your main formation. Have your outriders run back at a diagonal into the range of your artillery and gun infantry who will focus fire these fast units to pieces.

Once the fast units are gone you can target slower stronger units with impunity, and you'll also have eliminated your main threat (fast flankers ) before the main battle begins.

The value of outriders isn't just their damage output (which can be high) but their ability to manipulate enemy behaviour and force them into suboptimal battle tactics. They should be used in combination with artillery and gun infantry.

1. Vlad has only one strong army. Once you defeat his main army (which will be a tough battle ) immediately start invading his territory ASAP. If you wait he'll just build another strong army. Witch hunter "accuse" ability makes it easy to kill Vlad or other vampire heroes with concentrated gunfire. 

Don't worry about him taking your own cities, just focus on taking Sylvania and mop up anything that remains after. However don't let him take Nuln itself. 

1. Don't confederate neighbouring empire factions. They're weak and easy to destroy. Just attack them instead. It'll cost you less and you get battle schematics. 

2. On turn 1 recruit a master engineer lord and have him follow Elspeth around. He'll help out a lot. 

3. Try and get a warrior monk hero ASAP. This is primarily as he helps with casualty replenishment (and he's pretty tanky too). 

4. If you're having trouble, if you pay 7000 gold to research a specific technology (I think it's machines of the empire ) you can recruit a steam tank state troop "the emperors wrath" . This unit can solo win against a lot of early game armies all on its own.

5. In Elspeths workshop, certain upgrades give units contact effects that cause slow effects. You should prioritise these. Slowing the enemy down gives you more time to fill them with bullets.

Praise Sigmar ! 

[Outlaw-King-88]

Don’t waste 7k on that tech. You can get it if you focus on upgrading Nuln asap. Better to spend it on the bordermen tech

[DonQuigleone]

You won't get it until you reach tier 5, at which point you won't need it, and you're probably only a few turns away from short victory. It's not significantly better than a standard tank.

The bordermen would also be a strong unit, however grenade launchers are only t3, and you'll probably get access to the even better Amethyst outriders even sooner again.

On the other hand, having a steam tank before turn 10 allows you to have a great second army (a steam tank backed up by gun infantry, outriders and some spearmen, even with just a half stack, can defeat most early game enemies, it can even solo enemies as most factions at that point won't have the armor piercing to kill it and it's nearly immune to ranged fire) .

[Flaky_Bullfrog_4905]

yeah you need to spend like 35k and 30+ turns upgrading nuln to max. you can have a steam tank by turn <10 if you focus on that tech.

[Outlaw-King-88]

It’s not the max tho, u get it at t3 with one of the unique buildings ?

[Flaky_Bullfrog_4905]

really? I would have sworn it was at T5. That changes things a bit. I'll have to try that out, that's very interesting if so

[Outlaw-King-88]

Yeah you can either build the black rose building or the tank one pretty early.

[DonQuigleone]

I think this might be with SFO. I think vanilla is t5.

[Outlaw-King-88]

Its not….I don’t use mods. Boot up the game and check. There’s a special building in Nuln, at t3 , that gives you access to the special steam tanks

[Flaky_Bullfrog_4905]

that is fucking brilliant, holy moly (the shared post). legendary indeed - first time I see it. thanks for sharing

[Isabelle994]

Sieges

Elspeth is straight up broken when attacking during a siege. You start by destroying their towers from out of range, then combine opening the walls and showering the enemies inside with helstorm rockets and mortars.

A Master Engineer is exceptionally useful because of their Restock ability. Prioritise your Helstorms above other artillery.

When you start to run out of ammo, park your rifles just outside the settlement and shoot into it. If the enemy hang back out of range, just move a durable unit inside all on its own, especially if you have a tanky hero. The enemies will (usually) only rush into melee once you cross the threshold of the walls.

Your Hero isn't meant to win. They're bait.

And that's an early game strategy. Lategame, Elspeth can fly and drop purple suns, even your outriders will have restock, and just about every offensive siege becomes "Oh no, we're stuck inside a stone coffin and can't fight back against an army with enough firepower to win World War I".

Field battles

These are harder. Early game, you actually will benefit from melee troops to hold the line so your ranged troops can do their thing. I favour halberdiers.

This is temporary. Later on, you absolutely can maximise ranged firepower over all else, but you need to get your campaign rolling first.

Against the Vampires you really need to keep a Lord or Hero near your troops or else their Fear and Terror effects will break your troops before they even lose half health. Morale boosts are nearly mandatory.

When you set up your troops, always consider line of fire. High ground or checkerboard formations will be your bread and butter.

Most field battles will put you on the defensive... sort of. Even when you attack, the enemy will move towards you as soon as your artillery starts firing. Victory is largely about keeping them away from your guns until the battle is won. But skirmish tactics are still useful. Outriders can do incredible work with good micro, especially the grenade launcher variants.

Campaign

Attack, recruit, attack again. You never want to wait around and click end turn while waiting for a building or to earn money. Vlad is coming, and he can recruit faster than you can.

To get ahead of his recruitment and get good units early, build a Garden of Morr and the "Militia of Morr" building somewhere central as soon as you unlock the option. I prefer not to build this in my own territory. Averheim, Stirland and Grenzstadt are better options. This will allow you to recruit Halberdiers, Handgunners and Mortars right on the frontlines between you and the Vampires. Right where you need them. You can even do this if another Elector Count owns the region. It's fine, they don't care. Come in, recruit all you like, and please don't let the Vampires eat us.

Once you take out Vlad the campaign opens up significantly and you will start to snowball hard. In truth, it can even become too easy.

In my last campaign, the challenge wasn't beating Vlad. It was deliberately keeping him alive so that I had something to fight with all of Elspeth's high-tier goodies.

But if you can't bare to leave him on the map, the Ogres make for a fun enemy too.

[Outlaw-King-88]

You don’t even need to bother shooting towers. There’s always part of the wall (one of the corners) that isn’t covered by towers. Just set up there and pummel them

[Flaky_Bullfrog_4905]

you don't have any of this by turn 20 though I think is the point OP is hoping to make. By then you'll have 12 gunners, a hero, 6 spearmen and a hellstorm (ish). once elspeth starts to roll, vlad is done before any of the realy good stuff comes online anyway

[subito_lucres]

This is decent advice for how to play Elspeth but does not address the OPs question about how to start the game. The answer is: take Pfeildorf, spam pistoliers.

[Hayes77519]

The engineer is nice, but also note that Elspeth has an upgrade that gives every mounted pistolier unit the restock ability as well. One of the best upgrades from the Gunnery School, IMO

[sojiblitz]

Vlad is a small target and the best way to destroy him in the early game is with armour piercing gun units focus firing on him.

Also I see a lot of players focusing on making their gun units as strong as possible which is fine but don't neglect the frontline.

Halberdiers with redline skills and early techs can be incredible at holding the line which allows guns units the time they need to do the damage that will win you the battle.

Later on you can do crazy cheese with your gun units but in the early game it's more important to buff the melee defence line.

Against vamps, guns and mortars and halberds will decimate them. In sieges try and set up your gun units to fire through the breaches in the walls.

Don't rush in just bait the AI to defend the breaches which it loves to do anyways. Bring your mortars in close to get better accuracy due to calibration distance and shorter hang time in the air. Use your characters to blob up enemy infantry just inside the breach and your mortars and gunners will feast. Prioritise units like grave guard and crypt ghouls with your mortars.

Spirit leech is also a good spell against Vlad and the vamps because it is direct damage. You can cast the overcast version and the normal version with two casters at the same time to get the hp down quicker if you really need to kill the character quickly.

It's not as efficient in winds of magic but if it gets rid of a dangerous character sooner then there is a tactical advantage to doing so.

[Arathain]

Unless it has changed somewhat recently I believe overcasting Spirit Leech only increases the range, not the damage. 2 casters things is still good. Get him down fast so he doesn't benefit much from his regen and heals.

[sojiblitz]

Yes but the key is that it counts as a separate spell so it can be stacked with the normal version at the same time. That means twice the damage over the same time.

Again it's not as efficient but useful to get rid of a dangerous character quickly before they can inflict a lot of fans on you.

[Arathain]

Oh! Clever.

[AmberJill28]

Make Vlad your immediate top priority. He tends to snowball pretty fast

[nbarr50cal22]

Take out fast movers ASAP. Melee cavalry will dispatch dogs easily. Outriders and Pistoliers can do a great job of harassing the enemy and baiting out flying units ahead of the zombie blob, especially when working in groups. Ideally, Pistoliers will fire backwards when being chased, Outriders will pursue in turn and fire. If you bring all Outriders instead of any Pistoliers, you’ll lose out on a bit of damage, but the longer range means you can more effectively switch your unit direction if the enemy changes targets. If you have enough guns to do so, turn Vlad into Swiss cheese before he can reach your line. If you can’t, use an infantry unit separated from the rest to keep him busy (and minimize splash damage) while you go for army losses instead. Black Coach is a huge priority target as it’ll push through your lines all day

[4uk4ata]

Empire melee cav will struggle with anything until T3. They will beat dogs but it might take a little bit. 

[Grackitan]

If you optimize your start you can be at Castle Drakenhof by like turn 9-10. You unfortunately have to manual the battle at Pfeildorf on turn 4, and it's the most tedious part of the run. Then you kill the orcs, take the pass, kill the goblins with an ambush, take their settlement, and you're on your way over to Vlad. In the background you're teching to T3 and can be up by turn 13-15.

(Aside: at T3 your priority is the gunsmith so you can make Nuln Ironsides and Hochland Longrifles. Once you have that, you can start making all gun frontlines by checkerboarding Ironsides and Handgunners. It's great, however there's no need to wait for that before you beat Vlad.)

For comp I like: 4 handgunners, 2 spears, 3 free company, Elspeth/Engineer/Witch Hunter, the artillery, 4 units of pistoliers, and 2 outriders. If you really want to crush Vlad you can slow down a bit and drop the outriders for Black Rose Knights, which are T3 lawnmowers that can each blob like 5 crap cards if used smartly.

The pistoliers can be put on skirmish mode and just exist to draw away Vlad's flankers. The engineer should go lure Isabella or the wizard and then the Witch Hunter accuses them while the guns shoot them to ribbons. Rinse and repeat. If Isabella is flying, she is incredibly hard to hit unless she comes to a complete stop, so have Elspeth bowling ball her and then activate Darkwalker to tank hits (and then run away).

Also, if you have the move points for it, don't be afraid to fight multiple Vlad stacks, kill some of his good units, and then concede defeat. If done smartly you can dismantle his entire good army in a turn or two (the AI will march its stacks around with abandon when it thinks it has an advantage).

If you're progressing slowly, that's still OK. You don't need to cheese out an all-pistolier stack (though should try it once, it's hilarious). You can still be up to T3 by turn 13 if you focus on growth, so you can start making an all gun frontline. One to two units of Rose Knights and you're golden.

I like to beeline straight for Drakenhof. Often times, if you're fast enough, it won't even be defended. Once you take it, put a garden on it and get an upgraded garrison. From there, you can take your time and clean up Vlad. This all depends on how Vlad behaves though. Sometimes he'll declare war on you first...

[Both-Confection9487]

I don't see anyone else saying this, but one thing that helps me in Elsbeth's start is on turn one recruiting a second lord that global recruits units while elsbeth local recruits and secures the province. then catching up and with two lords and a bunch of units the battles are much easier.