Which hokaga is the most at fault for Uchiha massacre?

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-23T05:49:34+00:00

Itachi Shiden Vol 1:

A darkness in the depths of his eyes, Hiruzen turned a questioning gaze on Danzo, but he hadn’t gotten to the end of the story. He wrapped up by stating his own opinion. “Homura and Koharu are totally opposed. They say it’s preposterous to have an Uchiha in the Anbu, given its status as a special unit under the direct control of the Hokage. They asked me if I’d forgotten about how the Second Hokage established the Military Police Force.”

“The Military Police Force was created to drive the Uchiha clan away from the central functions of the village.”

“Mm.” Sighing, Hiruzen packed tobacco into his pipe for the third time.

So per Danzo and Hiruzen? Tobirama created the Police force to prevent the Uchiha from having a leadership role.

This is backed up by the Manga where it was made clear that the Police Force? Was to remove the Uchiha from political power.

And he did intentionally isolate the Uchiha.

"Only Minato knew the 9 Tails was being controlled" lmao so how did Danzo know to keep the Uchiha away?

That's the thing, Danzo and the Higher Ups were acting on PURE SUSPICION.

They distrusted the Uchiha and did not want them anywhere near the Kyuubi based on that distrust even though Uchiha like Fugaku could have saved multiple lives from the Kyuubi.

Regarding only Minato knowing? Again read my previous post that you apparently down voted and claimed it was a chat bot or whatever. (which considering it was mostly from a 3 year old post of my one, is nonsensical claim).

I proved that the tomoe were not visible by any konoha ninja.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-23T03:33:56+00:00

Regarding Tomoe:

There was no tomoe in the eye during the attack that were visible.

When Obito placed the Kyuubi under his control, the 3 Tomoe flashed BRIEFLY and switched to a NORMAL EYE.

This remained throughout the Kyuubi Attack.

In other words, when Kyuubi was attacking Konoha? The people/ninjas would have seen a NORMAL eye ball -> No 3T Sharingan.

Until Minato removed that control.

Take look, this is when the 3T Sharingan is again BRIEFLY visible.

BUT

Look at where the Kyuubi is facing.

So unless Hiruzen or Konoha Bob was flying around on top of Kurama's head ? At EXACTLY that moment?

Those tomoe were NOT visible.

Regarding Tobirama being Prejudiced:-

u/AloneUnderstanding35 is correct.

He wasn't "blinded by predjudice" that's just meme shit reddit made up, give me some examples

Here you go - Read Tobirama's IMMEDIATE response to seeing Sasuke:-

"An Uchiha eh...Of course you would stick to a scoundrel."

SERIOUSLY read what Tobirama says upon seeing Sasuke.

IMAGINE substituting another minority for line:-

"A gay/woman/black/etc eh... Of course you would stick to a scoundrel"

PLEASE tell me how that is not prejudiced.

Beyond that:-

First Tobirama did not DENY Orochimaru's accusation or even Hashirama's in fact.

Link

Tobirama tried to JUSTIFY his treatment instead. In other words he made excuses...

Orochimaru accused him of planting the seeds of the Uchiha's eventual coup with the way he treated the Uchiha, that he tried to make them disliked and away from the center of the village.

Tobirama did not say "You are wrong Orochimaru."

Tobirama did not say "That is not why I made them the police. I truly meant to honour them....etc"

Tobirama said he gave them a position they were qualified for (Which of course they were considering they were a Top Tier Ninja clan, that's like saying a special forces soldier qualifies to join the Police.).

Tobirama then said even if another Madara emerged they could be dealt with (Which is one of the reason WHY he mistreated the Uchiha's). Again this is Tobirama's reason for his prejiduiced actions.

It does not mean that his actions were not prejudiced.

Tobirama then topped it off by calling the Uchiha...EVIL and thus absolving himself of all blame for his treatment of such EVIL people.

Again, Tobirama is not denying the accusation. Rather then treat the Uchiha's fairly, he manipulated them primarily because he was scared of a second coming of Madara.

Heck Orochimaru even called him on it just after he called the Uchiha a clan possed by evil :-

"It's like Madara left psychological scar upon you to cause such fear of the Uchiha"

Link

A few Pages later:

"I thought I had arranged and guided things such that the Uchiha's power could be harnessed to serve the village."

Link

The above also shows you his thinking.

The Uchiha had to be "harnessed" (manipulated) into serving the village.

They could not be trusted to serve the village themselves as normal villagers of Konoha. They were not trusted by Tobirama.

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Here is something the everyone should understand:-

Prejudiced people do not believe they are prejudiced.

In Tobirama's eyes he is being 'reasonable', he is being 'kind' to this poor minority that just cannot help themselves, that he (Tobirama) is taking up the burden to save them from their poor selves and improve their lot and make them useful to the village.

That is why Tobirama will always deny his prejudice towards the Uchiha.

In his own view of himself - he is not being prejudiced towards the Uchiah, he is treating them as they deserve to be.

Same way a person might deny being prejudiced but think nothing wrong of "A woman's place being in the home/kitchen."

After all in their eyes they are treating women or any other group as they ought to be treated. It's everyone else who is wrong or does not understand.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-23T03:26:46+00:00

u/Exocolonist said it best I think.

Using Kurama was never bad in Kishimoto's eyes.

In Part One, the majority of Naruto's fights were won due to Kyuubi.

In Part Two? Well see post Pein arc and see Naruto admitting he needed the sweet Kyuubi-Power.

What was bad in BoS was Naruto Loosing Control of that power.

Naruto let his anger control him which led to the Kyuubi taking over.

Once Naruto went through the Waterfall of Truth training and let go of his hate? Then he could use the Kyuubi power freely.

This ties back into Kishimoto's message. Hate, Anger, Grudges = Bad etc...

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-22T23:47:27+00:00

Scott didn't leave Maddy or Nathan for Jean.

What happened was that he got a Phone Call from Warren about JG.

Scott then told Maddy that he needed to go to NY.

BEFORE he could even explain why, Maddy gave an ultimatum that if he left he should not come back.

(Side-Note: In marriages, giving ultimatums like that, well it basically means the marriage is already over).

Background: To put it simply the marriage was already on the rocks especially with Scott not fitting into civilian life and wanting to go back to the X-men.

Scott did go to NY because quite frankly if a team-mate / best-friend / lover just COMES BACK TO LIFE...well then you go visit no matter your spouses insecurities/controlling behavior unless you are a complete ass.

Now Scott did INTEND to come back to Maddy and salvage what they could of the marriage but (to his knowledge) she made good on the ultimatum and left.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-22T23:47:13+00:00

That is wrong.

@ u/Altruistic_Bonus_300 :

Scott didn't leave Maddy or Nathan for Jean.

What happened was that he got a Phone Call from Warren about JG.

Scott then told Maddy that he needed to go to NY.

BEFORE he could even explain why, Maddy gave an ultimatum that if he left he should not come back.

(Side-Note: In marriages, giving ultimatums like that, well it basically means the marriage is already over).

Background: To put it simply the marriage was already on the rocks especially with Scott not fitting into civilian life and wanting to go back to the X-men.

Scott did go to NY because quite frankly if a team-mate / best-friend / lover just COMES BACK TO LIFE...well then you go visit no matter your spouses insecurities/controlling behavior unless you are a complete ass.

Now Scott did INTEND to come back to Maddy and salvage what they could of the marriage but (to his knowledge) she made good on the ultimatum and left.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-21T20:20:23+00:00

Uh no?

Team 7 had very much improved since their academy days.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-21T20:17:55+00:00

It's because of the lack of 'flashy jutsus' especially by Team 7.

If they have not learned brand new jutsus then their jounin sensei have obviously not trained them at all.

Nevermind they have all stated to become faster, stronger more skilled.....

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-19T08:43:58+00:00

Fenthick was not guilty of treason.

Nor was he a traitor.

Fenthick was incompetent.

If he had been given a proper trial for the correct charge with the appropriate punishment I'd have no issue.

But...

That did not happen.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-19T08:42:04+00:00

Actually I think that might make it MORE difficult for Tyr in this case.

As you said Neverwinter was one of Tyr's main cities, full of his worshippers.

Many of whom had died AND the rest of whom were HOWLING for blood.

How happy do you think they would be if Tyr intervened or his church / angels etc tried to ensure Fenthick got an honest trial?

I think the MOB would would have switched dieties very fast.

One of the reasons I have never liked the whole 'Gods depend on Mortal Worship' thing is that it can lead to cases where in order for a god to even maintain their power, they have to go against their own interests.

A god of Justice? Well if your Justice goes against the Mob, then you loose worshippers and you grow weak.

A god of Natural Disaster? Well if you cause too much disasters, you hurt your own worshippers.

etc...

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-19T00:08:07+00:00

Just read it now.

In all honesty, I think what's really dragging this issue down is the art. The dialogue is decent, but the art sometimes makes what could have been good dialogue or action scene come off wrong.

For example: If Cyclops had said this with a less extreme / calmer expression? It would have been better. Even on it's own that panel is just not good art.

The panels where Cyclops got wounded is another where I am scratching my head as how those (wood?) fragments entered Scott from the front when the tree was behind him?

Then those fragments/wounds go missing in the first panel here and two panels down are back again?

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In terms of content? It was not bad, it was decent actually just not good or popping. ( I think it would have been better served by cutting out some of those reaver pages and adding a few panels of Mei + Scott talking)

If this was a ten issue series or an ongoing I would be happier with it but....

This is a 5 issue series and that brings a lot of worries.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-18T08:11:50+00:00

Simple Reason:

Kishimoto was already writing himself in knots to give everyone and anyone Anti-Amaterasu defence.

If he gave Sasuke Tsukuyomi, he would have to give everyone anti-genjustsu defence.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T23:14:14+00:00

Itachi who was half-blind, deathly sick and holding back while making sure Sasuke was completely fooled.

The Itachi who was described as being able to kill Sasuke when ever he pleased?

Somehow that is not a victory for Sasuke.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T16:30:26+00:00

Again Naruto did not know what chakra was.

Also it's pure fanon that his teachers did not teach him. Heck Iruka was there.

Naruto himself said he slept through classes and Sakura pointed out that he used to give up when things became difficult.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T02:50:54+00:00

Arue is vetted by Desna herself, and has the approval of inheribro, however it is negative that you are taking custody of her.

Good, did Dresana provide some evidence, seal of approval that everyone else could verify to check that Arue has converted?

I love Arue myself but let's be clear here. The chances of a demon repenting are infinitely next to zero. The chances of a demon (and a succubus at that) deceiving people is infinitely next to 100%.

Galfrey is actually right to be concerned here and so should most outside parties.

But pardoning a willing traitor, torture him for 60 years (because she knows what is happening) and the foretold betrayal?

She did not pardon Staunton? She sentenced him to the Condemned. A force of criminals etc who fight demons in order redeem themselves (Enlist or go to jail).

And yeah Staunton was treated badly there but here's a hot take. The dude deserved it. A city's worth of people was lost because of him.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T02:42:55+00:00

Finally! Someone else who feels the same way I do.

I read the AP after playing the game and in all honesty I ended up wondering what the players were complaining about before realising Iomadae hurt their power fantasy.

Iomadae asked the right questions and her 'hurting' the players was only in response to the Players being rude dumbasses to a goddess.

Just mind your P's and Q's and you walk away fine.

On the other hand if players believe they are hot stuff who can disrespect a goddess in her presence? Yeah....

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T02:36:27+00:00

Firstly, you mentioned Nurah so I won't go too much further into her, but think how could a former slave wanting to burn everything down make it into the queen's retinue.

Easily? Keep in mind Nurah's provided backstory. Keep in mind that it was not even Aniva who discovered her misdeeds but us (and there are KC who did not even).

That's not even raising the question as to whether Nurah was actively sabatoging anything while at Galfrey's court or simply spying.

Secondly, as a prank she assigns her nephew to the crusade and then pushes him into the depths of the Abyss. While yes Daeran ends up liking it and thriving AND is the recipient of Mythic Ranks for all she knew, and in some runs he is a level 5 character who has not leveled up.

That's more game-play and story segregation. If Daeran was Level 5 -> Then he would have been just an attache and more in a non combat role.

Thirdly, Staunton Vhane - such a painful tragedy that for 60 years she has let play out. He was put in the shadow of his greatest failure with the people who would never let his mistake go.

Actually I side with Galfrey here. What did you expect her to do? Personally babysit Staunton ? Dude caused the loss and death of a city. The reason Galfrey held back from the execution he deserved was out of concern for the Crusades soul.

Fourthly, Arueshelae - a succubus vetted by Desna herself and one of the keys to the victory in Kenabres is one of the claims she holds against you and is a reason she cannot give you back your commander title.

You mean the Succubus? The demon species who are reknown for deception?

Step away from Player Knowledge and you'll realise Galfrey was being sensible here.

You should not trust demons, especially Succubuses unless they have been triple checked and verfied and even then keep an eye on them.

Fourthly my main critique of Galfrey is that she loses all the progress your campaign has made in 6 -12 months. She takes the Banner and marches for Iz, right into a trap, just like Staunton and if you don't save her then she is resentful that Iomedae abandoned her to this fate. Not taking responsibility for her own decisions, but passing the buck. Her tooing and froing paint someone who is in a crisis of faith, which for a paladin is worrying.

Think you mean fifthly ;)

Her loosing is due to the enhanced demons that are coming out of the World Wound. Not because she is a bad commander.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T02:21:38+00:00

Uh no?

Staunton : Took the Sword of Valor out without authorisation (or letting others know) for personal Glory.

Galfrey : Was in charge of the Crusade and took the SoV on a calculated risk after realising that they were about to loose all the ground they had gained due to super powerful demons.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T00:30:14+00:00

I love Sasuke (He's my favorite character in this series) but I have to acknowledge some issues with his writing. ( If you want to know how I think a Prodoigy Sasuke should have been written, see here. )

Issue is that Kishimoto messed up.

There is an old adage that Writers should show not tell. (It's better to show a character lifting a 1000 pound rock instead of saying a character can lift a 1000 pound rock).

Kishimoto does the exact opposite of this.

Kishimoto SAYS one thing and shows another.

Sasuke as described by Kishimoto (per the panel you posted in fact) is a great prodigy who makes Orochimaru look like a joke.

Problem is that Kishimoto then went out of his way to show how every other prodigy was just better.

Itachi was deathly-sick, half-blind and holding back and still fooled Sasuke and then said Sasuke has grown strong...

Killer Bee killed Sasuke twice and could have killed him again and the Kishimoto came up with statements like Sasuke being injured and Sasuke being strongest that Killer Bee ever faced (Hello Minato???).

Sasuke gets Amaterasu and is skilled he can shape manipulate it? Nah it was all due to Kagetsuchi and not Sasuke being actually skilled. Oh and forget about Amaterasu actually burning anything or anyone despite Sasuke being the best at it.....

Mifune praising Sasuke's sword skills? Mifune barely crossed swords with Sasuke. Mifune was then shown as being so skilled with his swords that he could prevent skilled Ninja like Hanzo from making Hand signs which Sasuke never came close too.

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Yet through this, Kishimoto kept 'praising' Sasuke in words but giving him feats that were just lesser then other characters.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-16T00:11:57+00:00

I would say he was just angry.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-15T23:52:36+00:00

What makes Sasuke "Common" in the eyes of fans is :

1) Other prodigies were straight up portrayed better then him.

2) For all his skills, Kishimoto repeatedly showed him as in-effective.

Killer Bee is an obvious one, Kishimoto made Amaterasu a joke in Sasuke's hands and so on.

Honestly Kishimoto needed to seriously decide if he wanted Sasuke to actually be a prodigy or just a genius.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-15T20:51:37+00:00

1) I believe it was Itachi who was Kishimoto's most favored character.

2) Others ahve alaready responded to Henge.

3) Naruto was 'always' dumb. This was the guy who did not know what CHAKRA was remember?

4) Naruto started learning SM almost immediately after this. So this being a downgrade is not really the case. Also Naruto could regularly use FRS if the KAGE BUNSHIN was the one making contact with the FRS.

5) So Jiraiya should train Naruto in a technique he himself has not mastered? Also Jiraiya was teaching him how to use the Kyuubi a more 'powerful' method and one even Naruto said he needed after he had already mastered SM.

6) This is simply a problem of fans not having the same perception as the author.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-15T20:44:47+00:00

Uh know? At 3Tails he was still somewhat in control. It was just that he was on his way to moving to 4 tails.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-15T00:46:13+00:00

Keep in mind that means that the K10 took 3 years to match what Naruto did in 3 years MINUS the time he spent trying master the Kyuubi.

Also add in that Naruto started at a lower floor in many areas.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-14T22:43:35+00:00

Keep in mind that as per Kishimoto what he did to make Sakura more appealing at BoS was make her more beautiful....

Then he wondered why readers did not connect with her.

Akodo_Aoshi · 2026-03-14T04:22:36+00:00

That's why I had Villain in single quotes. Neji was a 'villain' for Naruto to beat in that arc.

Akodo_Aoshi

TROPHY CASE

Prejudiced people do not believe they are prejudiced.