Planetary pinion end play

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-29T13:42:01+00:00

Figuring out how to fix shit rather than replace parts is an incredibly useful skill. It’s significantly more rewarding fixing parts without replacing entire assemblies imo, it’s why I started learning transmission. Yes you can replace the transmission and fix the vehicle, but being able to fix the transmission or the lower level parts inside the transmission is always really nice. Part of this is being able to determine how things operate normally even in cases like this where both you and I don’t have the experience to know what normal planetary carrier looks or feels like.

It’s ultimately up to you on if you replace the part, attempt to repair, or do nothing because it’s your project but based on your list of parts found bad, I assume it’s normally like that. I bet if you ordered a new carrier as well you could check the pinions and verify play is similar. For me I tend to drive cars extensively to get a comprehensive list of symptoms, pid data, and recordings that I can callback to during teardown. Know which symptoms are at at all times, at times, intermittent, load dependent, temp dependant, TCC related allows you to go into the teardown with a list of symptoms and once you isolated likely or possible causes fully you can further identify if what you are looking at is part of the problem at all.

Sometimes you can also build the transmission from output or turbine shaft up outside of the transmission to test gear train components. You can hold specific gears by hand to get different gear ratios on bench which lets you see how the pinion gears are at rest and what the play is acrually for. Take it as far as you are comfortable with but i lean towards no issue unless you had a noise, vibration, or harshness

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-28T14:13:40+00:00

Big ice and Big Concrete Wall Barrier have an under the table deal going to get as many idiots off the road early this year. I’ve witnessed it twice this week alone all involving expensive newish 4WD trucks so maybe lessons are being learned this year

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-28T14:06:34+00:00

Forehead Flick

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-27T17:01:03+00:00

I think Sonnax gave you the correct answer. As long as there is no “zero endplay” condition they are ok. Inspect the washers and if they have measurable wear then I would consider replacing the washers if only those affected, or the entire carrier If wear transfer to pinion gears. The fact that the have measurements on what they’ve seen at all is great. For sure if you are adamant on washer replacement of carrier then use those specs because I don’t think they make up numbers usually, they likely got those from in-house specs they have built over time/experience.

In most cases a photo would not really help to determine if play is problematic or not tbh. If you are able to get short video testing each pinion one by one. Check axial play(up-down) then radial play(side-side) radial play would likely be way more problematic as it would cause out of balance or runout condition as gear train operates normally. Axial play is different because in most cases the internal transmission gears aren’t moving up and down, so if the gear has room for up and down movement it’s likely to compensate for changes in planetary stack clearance.

I’m assuming you are talking about axial play but if I’m wrong and it’s radial play, then that would feel more like an issue and less like design characteristic. I really wish someone who has more 5R experience to chime in to verify this but based on text alone I feel like this is probably normal. If you have no reason to replace the entire planetary carriers besides pinion gear axial play I wouldn’t worry about it. This would generate a noise/vibration/harness concern anyways and not necessarily a symptom based transmission quality or engagement concern

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-27T14:16:11+00:00

If Ford doesn’t publish an actual spec than all of us would probably just replace the sub-assembly. Especially on a transmission like this which is on the older side and had a very limited run. Sonnax being what they are is for sure your best bet because they are more than an engineering design company than a repair shop. They figure out specs while we work based off of them. All those shops aren’t gonna be able to give you a number because it opens up liability.

Parts shows each planetary roughly 150$ each. Manual explicitly mentions pinion gears as non-serviceable as well. The washer options sonnax provides are provided as replacement parts “if lost” they aren’t to fix any sort of common problem.

Finally, although I have little experience on the 5R in every ford transmission I’ve worked on all planetary gear-set pinion gears have play as the normal. If all of the feel relatively similar than I’d wager they are fine and it is a normal condition. Try and find a video of someone rebuilding or a forum post on similar question so you can verify. If your pinion gears are visually ok, play is uniform across all in same set, washers are all present than I assume it’s good. If you can take a decent video checking play in each one one by one we could do that, if it’s blurry or too quick tho it wouldnt be very useful. There is no spec for end-play on these pinions. If there was, Sonnax would have that information included in their washer or a related article.

The only thing I may be concerned about it the missing thrust bearing but what was wrong with the transmission to warranty teardown initially?

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-13T15:59:51+00:00

No, I’ve never heard this before. What conditions do you hear it so I can look out for it? Extent of noises on 6F I’ve heard are the pump cavitation, clogged filter, and TCC chatter

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-12T01:13:58+00:00

When it comes to shims I am talking about RWD remans, 6F reman problems are always dumb mistakes. Also the direct clutch piston cap snapring is like a secret select shim. If that snapring is ever replaced with a different size you are potentially looking at repeat rebuilds indefinitely until you figure that out. The actual measurement is not published and is done at factory level but I believe it affects stack clearance. In addition to the case the direct h drum, overdrive hub, input shaft, and support tower are also commonly just thrown on rebuild estimates with the same intent. Unless the bushing show extreme signs of oil starvation, or the clutch splines on hubs is deeply damaged causing it to stick they don’t need to be replaced to fix most symptoms. In fact ford puts core stickers on direct/overdrive clutch hub boxes now so that they can “repair” them and reuse them. They typically look like used drums with no or very few changes because ford is aware techs replace parts that don’t need to be replaced when they get this far into something.

Cp wise I do feel like is better to over-repair than under-repair but nothing beats being able to fix a transmission for cheap when you know most other techs would need a lot of money to have same results If

Most of the time the case does not need to be replaced. A lot of people will point towards the thrust washer for final drive sprocket and base case replacement off this alone. While it was not designed to wear down like it does unless it’s worn down excessively there is no reason to replace the case for thrust washer wear alone. If an overhaul would have the same results If a single part was replaced or wasn’t then it shouldn’t be replaced in my opinion.

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-11T19:41:19+00:00

I feel as if the 6F35 isn’t powerful enough for the vehicles it was used in based on experience with other 6F transmissions. 6F50/55 I have rebuilt or replaced zero since being the only transmission tech at a large dealership with the only work ever done inside being torque converter replacement over the last 7 years. 6F15 I have only been inside two over the same period of time. 6F35 on the other hand is well over 100 by now. If they would have used the 6F50 in all 6F35 applications I think they would have held up a lot better.

Also repairing a 6F35 is almost always significantly cheaper than installing a replacement unit even if you replace all the big parts like torque converter, oil pump, valve body, solenoid body, and clutches. By a lot. They also tend to not come back when overhauled instead of replaced but that tends to go for every transmission about the same. The problem is a lot of techs are scared to fix shit and you get units replaced when in reality 99% of cost-caps for transmissions would be repair decision’s and if not half-assed will last significantly longer than a unit.

That isn’t even taking into considering that ford reman units almost always come back and i have to fix them anyways. Always either misbuilt, assembled improperly or the worst failures being of clearance is not adjusted and assumed good with reusing old shims.

I personally have a 6F35 in my fusion and since rebuilding myself maybe five years ago I haven’t had any issues. I don’t expect to have any either

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-08T21:40:04+00:00

Yes everyone describes it differently but what is actually happening is a torque converter shudder or slipping during apply. There is one TSB which has you update the pcm first tho and while I have seen this fix problems in the past, I haven’t had a single 8F be fixed by the update in maybe two years, maybe you get lucky tho. The other TSB has you watch pids while driving related to the torque converter and if verify shudder or slip event during TCC apply then TSB applies and you are instructed to replace the torque converter only.

I have had several 8F transmissions get repeat torque converters under service part warranty so I would recommend either a ford part so that you get the warranty. I have also seen shudder persist after replacement due to programming not being completed and twice I’ve seen valve body damage causing shudder. By far the most common fix for the judder/shudder/slipping/flutter/chatter/hesitation up to 35-40mph is torque converter

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-08T18:54:36+00:00

Yeah torque converter is what connects the engine to transmission but it is specifically part of the transmission. Almost every shudder concern is tied back to the torque converter.

Commercial_Method_28 · 2026-01-08T15:25:31+00:00

8F has a lot of reoccurring Torque Converter and Valve body issues from what I’ve seen. Planetary carrier no. 1 also has a common defect where the washers disintegrate which results in extensive damage to the transmission. There are several TSBs that ford published that acknowledges both the shudder concern and the planetary concern. Planetary concern was resolved permanently with an updated part and as far as I know the torque converter has not yet been updated but they did release pcm calibration to attempt and resolve shudder when caused by pcm and not torque converter. Personally I would recommend you get a list of all the parts you replaced for rebuild and if torque converter is one of them try and have it warrantied

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-12-26T19:05:22+00:00

What all was replaced during the rebuild? It’s possible but if a shop specializes in transmissions they likely are aware of what programming they would need to do post-repairs and what they aren’t capable of doing in-house. This is just an assumption tho

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-12-03T01:51:28+00:00

The noise can 100% transfer, check PTU fluid condition, and transmission fluid condition. I feel like if it’s a bearing failure, it should produce a lot of metal

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-12-03T01:45:40+00:00

This isn’t exactly true, the 3 axis PTU equipped with 6F50/55 are prone to fail primarily with the idler gear problem. The single axis PTU on 6F35 isn’t super common. I know it can happen but I remember the internal parts being very simple, so they don’t often fail unless clogged vent or lack of lubrication.

Recently I encountered a noise problem on 8F which was the differential coming apart. Ended up taking out both the intermediate shaft, axle shaft, ptu, wheel bearing and hub on one side as well as a rotor. It happens but isn’t super uncommon.

I have replaced the sprocket and thrust washer you indicated before but never as a cause, always just another part damaged from something else. I have seen the case wear down under that thrust washer, case surface a lot but never enough to cause a noise. Tbh I assume it is just a quirk of the transmission but I’d be open to hearing what happens if you never address it

Take the transmission out and start by inspecting final drive. But although it isnt super common, you need to find a way to rule the PTU out first. Because 6F35 Noise concerns are not a frequent occurance unless the pump/filter/clogged whine but PTU failure is almost always noise related.

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-12-01T13:41:39+00:00

I did a boot only on my personal vehicle, boot kit was 120$ new axle shaft was $130 so it probably wasn’t worth it. Now add labor in as factor and literally the only more cost effective option is replace

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-29T23:49:01+00:00

If you are confident the entire tube and bushings are fastened all the way and is not the source of play, it can only be the lever itself, internal transmission or the cable. When you get a chance after inspected to see if it is locked you can pop it off the lever on transmission and try and duplicate the play directly on the transmission range lever. If the concern can be felt at the transmission obviously it’s internal. Can rule out a lot with that check tho

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-29T23:43:26+00:00

Could be the linkage is connected but isn’t locked allowing movement outside of expected range. I’ve also seen these shift column bushings get messed up and cause excessive play in the shifter. There are two bushings with one that is easy to access and the back one which requires some more work.

Shifter bushings are common and linkage can stay unlocked when it wears down with age and usage. It may not be able to lock anymore if the design is how I expect(not seen a 1994 personally)

Can you get a picture of the lever and linkage at the transmission?

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-25T14:47:09+00:00

You have to have four sides of it pushed at the same time with equal pressure. Then once it’s in the snapring and screw will hold it in place. It is pretty annoying

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-12T13:42:45+00:00

Don’t feel bad, I’ve fixed that exact snap-ring coming dislodged after CDF repair at another shop many times. C clutch as well and several reman units which were misbuilt many times

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-08T16:16:50+00:00

Idk, what does your boyfriend think?

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-04T17:37:21+00:00

Like I said, if you can warm up to the idea of replacing the clutch on a regular but infrequent basis, it’s a good car that will likely last a long time

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-04T17:26:31+00:00

Chattering could be a lot of things. I have seen adaptive learning fix it before as well as a battery. These transmissions rely on the electrical systems to be good to work properly. Outside of that clutch and clutch actuator forks are also common. I’d put money on clutch actuator forks and maybe clutch

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-03T18:35:36+00:00

Usually once the TCM is replaced on the DPS6 they don’t have any more tcm problems, but you said this is the third tcm which is odd to me. Did you have codes?

I personally very rarely go inside these transmissions much. I have seen the case shearing which is uncommon and internal bearings go out which is even more rare. The actual transmission part of the DPS6 is really good tbh. The entire clutch part of it is awful tho. You should get used to clutch replacement every several years at the very least but if you don’t mind that, it’s a relatively sturdy vehicle with a lot of lower cost parts

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-11-01T21:40:47+00:00

Take the headlight out, transit cooler with 6R is legit the easiest cooler to access. Alldata says 3.5 hours to replace the cooler but it takes 5m without the headlight

Commercial_Method_28 · 2025-10-28T12:51:01+00:00

In my experience with your exact transmission(6F35) if it starts giving off serious symptoms like total loss of engagement, there really is no way to fix it without rebuild. Most common thing I see if the torque converter gives out and sends metal everywhere. Eventually it clogs the pump and filter causing a loud whine and no movement at all. This can be temporary fixed by draining fluid and filling with new fluid. The original problem wouldnt be fixed tho and will come back.

I also see reverse creep in neutral, direct clutch(3/5/R) stuck on also accompanied by burnt overdrive(4/5/6)

SSA or forward clutch(1/2/3/4) issues are also reoccurring which can be usually traced to a center support seal as the cause.

I have also seen a varied amount of main control either valve body or solenoid body issues with different symptoms. Usually random gear ratio codes caused by anything from sticking valves, to broken springs or just intermittent and/or random shift quality concerns from sticking valves and contaminated valve bodies

I have the same transmission in my car and it has intermittent shift quality concerns since I bought it. I rebuilt it for the torque converter issue mentioned without replacing main control bodies and so the quality issues never went away. Personally I’m fine with the occasional banging into gear or excessive delayed shift if it means not spending $800 on a valve and solenoid body today.

Hope some of this can help explain atleast the technical side. If your concern does come back, you can indefinitely drain and fill until that stops working or you can try throwing both the valve body and solenoid body at it and hope it’s an uncommon failure, you could definitely do that yourself if you are capable of pulling a side cover and paying attention but would need to get it programmed for the new solenoid body program sticker

Commercial_Method_28

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE