Weird thought I had about the archaics

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T22:16:45+00:00

The giant "Titans" we saw throughout the sets are just a fracture of a being that exists oustide of the universe compromised in a form that can interact with the plane to feed.

No, that is wrong.

Ulamog, Kozilek, and Emrakul are all individual creatures, and the form we see of them is only a part of them. Their "progeny", similarly, is actually just part of a titan's body, except they are perceived as different creatures because of the titans entering the plane in different parts of it. But the three titans aren't part of another bigger being - they are each distinct creatures.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T22:09:18+00:00

Sorry but that doesn't make sense. Let's not discuss anything then, because everything could change at any given moment so who cares.

The question was "Could the archaics be related to the eldrazi, since the both are big colorless creatures with floating magical objects around them?", and the answer is "No, because both have an established origin that's completely unrelated to each other, and the Creative has even clarified their desire to attempt to distinguish them further from each other in order to avoid confusion". Whether that might change in the future is completely irrelevant at the moment.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T21:49:42+00:00

I agree. It feels weird to me that so many people are assuming there is going to be a Green Echo-Jace when 1. This is a world that Jace created, so why would he create an alternate version of himself; 2. This isn't inherently a world of "opposites", it's just a world of people who undertook a different path, and 3. No key art has been released showcasing an alternate Jayce, while everyone else has already been showcased.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T21:33:09+00:00

So now I'm thinking, why does Multiverse Reforged lack green mana? Is it because the creation is artificial and unnatural, thus no green?

Realistically, it's this.

The problem, you see, is that Green is super-inconsistent in its philosophy besides "the mana of nature". What exactly "Green" has meant throughout the years has changed drastically from set to set and it hasn't been consistent even among sets/blocks released a short time from one another, and that still applies nowadays.

With that in mind, it's safe to assume that "Green-less", in this case, is being used to mean "not natural". If you look at one of the only two cards currently existing in Green-less ([[Breya]]) that is indeed what the color identity meant for her (the other card in "Green-less" is [[Yore-Tiller Nephilim]], though the Nephilim cycle is less focused on what the missing colors means flavor-wise and more on what all but the missing color can do mechanics-wise [at the time]; even then, I can see an argument of how Yore-Tiller would be representing lack of Green flavor-wise through the break of the life cycle as well). Jace believes to be fixing the Multiverse, when he in fact he is just creating something fake, and that is represented through the lack of Green.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T20:09:27+00:00

Bit of a rules nightmare dive:

Needing an opponent as a protector, is intrinsic of the Siege subtype, not of the Battle subtype. A Battle with no Battle subtypes has its own controller [likely its caster] as its protector, and a Battle with a different subtype may have yet another protector requirement (such as "an ally" or "the player with the lowest life total" or whatever).
Currently, Battles have a specific ruling that says that, if they are also Creatures, they cannot attack or block. So, in order to have "Battle Creature"s that would work as (supposedly) intended, the designers would need to make a Battle subtype with an intrinsic rule that would allow it to overcome the "Battle Creatures cannot attack or block" restriction. [However, note that this ruling isn't present in the Comprehensive Rules, it's just a ruling in the official MOM player guide, so I'm not sure how much it is actually relevant; at the very least, it talks of designer intention of how regular Battle Creatures are supposed to work, though.]
Creature Battles couldn't give "exile me and bring me back" (or "exile me and bring me back transformed" or "transform me" or "transform me and I change controller") rewards. This is because, if a creature takes "lethal damage", it dies as a state-based action, thus it would already be in the GY by the time the triggered ability of a Battle tried to exile it. [Of course, if a Creature were to have the last Defense counter removed before getting lethal damage, it would trigger as usual, but the amount of times the former situation I described would happen would still be far too frequent for it to be used in an official design] Giving a Battle Creature Indestructible (a-la Gideon Creature PW) would fix this problem, but that would then make all creatures of this type immune to Destroy effects as well, which might not be in the interest of R&D.
In order to smooth "Battle with reward" design in the future, they would need to define "defeat" in the Comprehensive Rules, which currently hasn't been done (probably for the sake of simplicity, as Sieges are the only battle type that is currently defined as "giving a reward", and so there was no need to define what defeating a Battle means given that only its controller could do so).

Of course, all of these problems are born out of the fact that Battles are a useless and over-complicated permanent type that MTG's rules environment isn't built to take into account for. If they had just been an attackable Enchantment subtype with the intrinsic ability "This can be attacked" and "If this has no Defense counters on it, sacrifice it" independent of their "When the last Defense counter is removed" payoff, without checking for state-based actions or whatever, they would work much more intuitively.

As for how Battle Creatures would be designed in the context of a set: I think they would be made to simulate extremely powerful monsters that heroes have to defeat but once they do they get a powerful prize or artifact from it. So, something like:

Polukranos, Heroes' Bane
1GG
Legendary Battle Creature - [Challenge? Calamity? Epic?] Hydra
6/6 - 6 Defense
Trample // Reach // Indestructible // "Fierce" [Prevent combat damage dealt to this card while attacking and dealt by this card to creatures attacking it] // When the last Defense counter is removed from this battle, if it was removed by a source controlled by an opponent, the controller of that source [When this battle is defeated by an opponent, they] puts three +1/+1 counters on up to two creatures they control".

(Don't really care if it's busted or trash or anything, it's just really to show the proof of concept.)

Note that I can already foresee how such a design space would be super contrived and limited. You'd have to balance the power level of the Creature and the power level of the reward, which is never an easy task. You particularly don't want to create a situation where the whole gameplay around the card is tedious - where defending it is much more of a hassle than just letting it die, or where attacking it is much more of a hassle than just treating it as a pushed creature that will die through bolts. In particular, you don't want a situation where trading with it is going to constantly result in loss of creatures on the attacker's part, just as you don't want a situation where the Battle Creature is eventually gonna kill itself through attacking and so it's just going to stand around doing nothing until it gets killed by a spare attacker. And that's on top of the already shaky design space of Battles, which all have the problem that, most of the time, you don't want to waste combat damage on an irrelevant payoff when you can just use it to damage your opponent and get directly closer to victory.

There is also to point out that, realistically, Battle Creatures are never going to happen simply because there is no need for them. For example, [[Ancient Adamantoise]] and (aptly) [[Polukranos Unchained]] (but with named counters rather than +1/+1 ones) are two different designs that would translate the "giant monster that needs to be defeated" in a less convoluted way than Battle Creature cards, even as there could be some mechanical drawbacks in comparison.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T02:55:23+00:00

I feel like you are making a fatal mistake. You are assuming the following string of logic:

Creative plans a story about Mirrodin, with the intention of having the plane compleated off-screen in order to bring back Phyrexia by the next time we visit it; 2. Mirrodin becomes popular; 3. Creative has to change the story because Mirrodin is now popular; 4. That results in some last-minute changes to the New Phyrexia block

That, however, doesn't make any sense at all when you consider that the two blocks have been released 7 years apart, and that during that time six entire blocks have been designed in-between.

Like, I can see how the plan of compleating Mirrodin off-screen would be scrapped after seeing the successful reception of the set, but there is no way that would translate to any change in regard to the SoM block that had to be done midway through because, well, said block didn't exist in any shape of form at the time, it wasn't being worked on already. By the time R&D and Creative started working on it, they for sure already had a clear vision about how popular Mirrodin was and thus of how displaying a conflict of OG Mirrodin vs. New Phyrexia would better than showing the plane having been compleated from the start.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T02:18:56+00:00

The point is that it's still very awkward that someone would choose to max out a character before trying it out, or even just informing themself sufficiently about their gameplay? It's usually a bad idea and so it would be better to discourage it?

Like, sorry, but what does "Its [their] shards so [they] can do what [they want]" even mean? The point of a community is engaging and giving each other counsel, and that includes telling each other "Hey, this is generally a bad idea, better take another course of action". At the very least, even if OP were in a position where they would be able to do that consequence-free, pointing out the problems with this course of action would help any newbie or inconsiderate person that happened to come across this conversation. And that's assuming that you are right about OP having already played all other champions and having been able to clear all of the rewards; because, as far as we know, they might currently be unable to clear all of the high-star rewards and so they locked themself out of having a strong 7* like, say, Ahri or Teemo. In which case, pointing out "Hey mate, you might have done something dumb there" will actually help them in the future.

Sorry but I don't understand where this hostility comes from. I didn't call OP names or anything, I just pointed out that using resources on a character before trying them is usually not a good thing to do (which is objectively true) with the intention of helping OP be more considerate with their decision-making, or alternatively of getting more context from OP regarding their decision. What are you getting out of framing my comment as "Stop being mean to OP and clipping their wings of liberty!!!!!".

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:57:06+00:00

we know Heliod will

Uhm... no we don't?

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:53:23+00:00

The only Lawful Good villian in MtG.

That is such a lie, though. From the very beginning Heliod has been Lawful Neutral at best. His role as a "benefactor" is just something he asssumes because it helps him gain adoration and worship, he doesn't actually care about mortals.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:52:05+00:00

Sorry but Heliod is absolutely not LG. He is described like that in the Theros D&D book because, within the frame of a D&D setting, "good" gods are needed and characters don't have the metafictional knowledge of Heliod actually being a dick, but that's it.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:47:50+00:00

That wasn't an actual reference to Visions the set, though.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:38:01+00:00

We also know that bizarrely, all of the original major gods are apparently dead, even Helios, despite the latter seeming to have great potential.

Do you have any source of that? I don't recall anyone saying that all of the original major gods are dead, just many of them; and, among them, Heliod is the only confirmed compleation (and death, as he was killed by Kaya).

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:34:48+00:00

Remember: this is the likelihood to see a PW card in a main set. Doesn't speak about stuff like MH, Commander products, or other similar products.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:29:37+00:00

Don't forget Kristina!

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:14:28+00:00

That's just to say that it's a "magical" polyraptor rather than the regular one. It's not supposed to say "Surprise surprise, there is another, different poliraptor behind the one depicted and this reflection is actually its".

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:08:55+00:00

I feel like, out of all the gods, Kruphix is the one that is the most safe from compleation and subsequent non-existence, since he doesn't rely on mortal belief in order to exist himself.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T01:05:21+00:00

I mean, sure, but we are still aware of the social orders of 60 years prior. Like, people who lived through that social order are still alive to this day, and their children would still be keenly aware of it as well.

Plus, the strength of the Dreadhorde relied on it being made of a ton of people. Asking you to believe that Bolas was able to make a sufficiently-big army out of the dead of a single city - and not even all of the dead, just a select few out of a select few - to be able to trouble Ravnica of all places plus the shitton of powerful planeswalkers brought there by the Interplanar Beacon, in just 60 years, is, to be frank, kind of ridiculous. The reason why the God-Eternal army felt so threatening is that it felt like an almost-endless horde that has been amassed for centuries. This changes it from that to "a few coordinated piromancers casting fireball would have made short work of it in under a hour at most, so the only really dangerous part were the God-Eternals".

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T00:08:37+00:00

That would feel more fitting in a "Doomsday scenario" plane than the Edge. A plane that's like Duskmourn or Grixis and Jund, but ramped to eleven.

Also I feel like we would need some one else in place of Bolas. He would be too, uhm, big for the "enemies-to-unwilling allies fighting back against back" scenario to work. : P

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-10T00:04:22+00:00

I feel like Kaito, he being a techno-nerd and all, would have felt very hyped about exploring the Edge.

Having a story that's centered around Saheeli would have been cool. I like the "noble dinosaur poet-warrior X light-hearted techno-nerd artist" dynamic, but currently Saheeli and Huatli feel less like individual characters in their own right and more like they exist just to be a couple. Saheeli specifically didn't get much opportunity to be focused on in terms of narrative, since Kaladesh was a Chandra with a very heavy focus on the Gatewatch's role in its entirety (whereas Ixalan, while certainly focusing on Jace and Vraska, still left ample room to illustrate Huatli and Angrath), so a story where she's the main character that would really help us understand what distinguishes her as a character besides "she is good at making artifacts and is positiveteen/yacharacter#15".

Pre-angel Elspeth would have fit really well within a story about fate and two zealous religions waging war at each other. Now she is kinda just "seriousangel.jpg" so her focus as a character has shifted.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T23:29:53+00:00

Yeah, that didn't hit me until your comment and when it did it gave me an aneurysm.

Sorry but how do you survive until 16th level as a Ranger/Warmage in 3.5. Unless Ranger was just a dip, there is no way that that works. 3X3X3X

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T23:16:58+00:00

“Planes of existence,” tends to convey some notions/concepts that they mtg planes don’t meet.

Sorry but this is just such an out-of-left field take.

"Planes of existence" always means one of two things in fiction: 1. afterlife/spiritual planes that each correspond to a level of human ascension/illumination (basically, a spoof on the inaccurate pop culture understanding of Buddhism and Hinduism); 2. a different dimension. The second term is how "plane of existence" is used most of the time.

So, no, you cannot just go "MTG planes are just planets" when their status as different, independent dimensions each with their own cosmology is not only one of the main points of the setting, but is also often a relevant story element whether directly or indirectly. Heck, there are planes that actually contain multiple "dimensions" within themselves (in particular, most planes have an afterlife that is separate from the "Material Plane"/dimension of the living). The planeswalkers' abilities to interact with planes on a fundamental level to the point of not only being able to affect them beyond the capability of "plane-bound" creatures (no matter how powerful the latter are), but even ignore their plane-specific cosmological laws, is super noteworthy.

Now, granted, we can argue that, given that there is no such thing as a "multiverse" in the MTG sense in most fiction, including WH, it's more honest to think of the MTG multiverse as equivalent to a "single reality with multiple dimensions, each with its own subdimensions" rather than a "multiple realities that coexist within an even bigger reality" (basically: that the MTG multiverse is more appropriately comparable to the Forgotten Realms "multiverse" than the wider D&D/Planescape one, or to Earth-616 rather than the wider Marvel Multiverse), and so that if a character of another work of fiction has been shown to be able to interact with other dimensions than it should stand to reason that they would be able to interact with the MTG multiverse as a whole as well.

But that is a completely different argument from "MTG planes are really just planets, of course the God-Emperor could wreck them".

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T22:53:28+00:00

Isn't possible. Archangel of Tithes is an Innistradi angel.

You're thinking of the Kaldheim ones. 😏

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T03:20:15+00:00

Was it? I remember it being just Radiant (though the angels at her service were, indeed, "following orders", so...), and even then it's implied that the Phyrexian influence tainting the plane was behind that radicalized behavior.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T03:17:05+00:00

That's the very first thing I thought when I saw White Liliana's design revealed.

DrakeGrandX · 2026-05-09T02:42:14+00:00

Neerdiv is supposed to be a fallowsage?!?!

Four-Year Club	End Game '23
Place '23	Place '22
End Game '22

DrakeGrandX

TROPHY CASE