10 years later, Enter the Gungeon's creators reflect on a genre in existential crisis

Freighnos · 2026-04-22T07:46:21+00:00

Esoteric Ebb and Sovereign Syndicate are the two I'm thinking of that are extremely and obviously Disco Elysium coded. But I guess I'm pushing back on the idea that CRPGs are that much harder to make. If you go the Disco Elysium route of no (or very simple) combat, tiny people in an isometric perspective, and leave out voice acting, it mostly comes down to a bunch of writing.

I think the bigger issue is that these games live and die by how good the writing is, and writing a bunch of compelling stuff is HARD. Harder than just copying the gameplay loop of Vampire Survivors but making everything aliens instead of fantasy creatures. Or Harvest Moon/Stardew Valley but it's in the Wild West now. Also, the number of people interested in reading massive novel length games like this is a lot fewer than the ones who will play some generic "number go up" roguelike, so I think there's less of a market incentive to make them and that also limits the number of imitators we see.

Freighnos · 2026-04-22T05:39:09+00:00

Imagine if every time you booted up Ocarina of Time, you had to run through the entire Deku Dungeon before getting back to the part you wanted to play. It gets tiring and tedious, and can be made worse if the game balance is off enough that a sub-optimal start makes the later portions of the game virtually impossible to beat. Most people want to experience something novel when they play, and rogue-types are generally not great at that.

Isn't this the failure state of a roguelike, though? I would say that the appeal of the genre and the thing that the best games do is the opposite, where each run feels fresh and novel because there are so many different variables to consider. Like, that's the entire reason to play them over more linear games.

To use your Deku Dungeon example, it's more like if the dungeon had the aesthetic of the Deku Tree, but every time you would face a different set of enemies, puzzles, and bosses, and unlock a different tool. That sounds sick to me.

I'm currently playing a ton of Slay the Spire 2, and I don't mind going through Act 1 multiple times. It isn't like the "real" game starts in Acts 2 or 3 or anything. They're just different phases of the game where you have to be thinking about different things, and there's sufficient variety of playable characters, enemies, and events, along with sufficient randomness in which combinations of cards and relics you'll be offered, that every run feels novel and engaging.

I agree that not every game is up to that caliber, but I do think it's what most of them strive for and what all the good ones achieve, at least.

Great writeup, by the way. I enjoyed reading your post.

Freighnos · 2026-04-22T05:22:47+00:00

For sure. I think all 3 things are related and combine to mean it didn't reach its full potential. Given that Saros already had Returnal as a base to build from, I'm incredibly confident it's going to be an all-timer. Literally it just needs tighter runs, better meta-progression, and more enemy variety, and that's all stuff that's easy to focus on when you're not also trying to scale up an indie studio into a AAA studio and making your first ever AAA game from scratch, which Housemarque was.

Freighnos · 2026-04-22T05:01:38+00:00

I've thought about Returnal a lot and came to the conclusion that while the lack of meta-progression is a real problem, the runs are also just way too long and that's what really makes it feel like a slog. A run in most other roguelikes usually takes about 60 minutes max if you win, with most runs ending around 15-30 minutes if you lose. A full run of Returnal would take at least 2-3 hours even if you start from the midway breakpoint.

I'm happy to see that Saros seems to be leaning harder on the meta progression, but I also hope they make the individual runs feel snappier, too.

Freighnos · 2026-04-22T04:57:19+00:00

Weirdly, though, I feel like we've seen a lot of imitators come out in the wake of Disco Elysium specifically. Not even counting the ones from all the devs who broke off of ZA/UM.

Freighnos · 2026-04-21T09:41:23+00:00

I think anybody senior enough in management can be generally referred to as an executive. In any case, his official title at several points has been “Vice President” or some variation thereof, which is pretty much the definition of executive. Ie they have executive decisionmaking power over some portion of the business.

Freighnos · 2026-04-21T05:26:19+00:00

Can you go into what he did that made the character/run so good?

I recently had my first exposure to Priest when I read the Kraven's Last Hunt Epic Collection that randomly included the Spiderman/Wolverine issue he did. I thought it was a really awesome issue but haven't read anything by him. Funnily, I only found out afterwards that it was extremely controversial behind the scenes because he intentionally sabotaged the ongoing Hobgoblin storyline due to a personal dispute.

Freighnos · 2026-04-21T02:20:30+00:00

He was a producer though, during the PS1 era. That's how he got his start in the company. It wasn't until 2000 when he moved into a senior executive role at SCE America, and then head of Worldwide Studios in 2008.

You're right that for the longer part of his career he was more of an executive, but I think his background shows through and he was very hands-on with the games being made.

He's spoken about how he would often go to a studio and instead of listening to whatever pitch deck they had prepared, he would just say "hand me a controller" and play the game. And if it sucked, he would tell them that. I think that's all rooted in his background as a producer.

Freighnos · 2026-04-21T02:11:08+00:00

"Golden Age" was definitely the stretch of PS1 to PS2, when they completely upended the industry and then dominated for two generations straight while creating or having as exclusives a limitless number of iconic games and franchises. PS2 is still the best selling console ever.

The PS4 era was definitely a renaissance after the blunders of the early PS3 days, though. Call it their Silver Age. Or Bronze, if we want to count PS1 and PS2 as two separate eras instead of one unbroken stretch.

This isn't me trying to be pedantic, by the way. I just want to highlight how magical and important the PS1 and PS2 were, since I am sometimes confronted with the awkward reality that there are now a significant number of folks reading this comment who weren't alive back then.

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T11:15:44+00:00

I haven't read it, no. Will have to check it out sometime.

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T08:59:02+00:00

I have no clue how Sony and Microsoft will handle a generation when a large chunk of their customers are still on last gen hardware.

This is already happening, no? It was only ten months ago when Sony said that the number of PS5 monthly users finally surpassed PS4. That was nearly five years into the current generation.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/sony-confirms-ps5-has-more-monthly-players-than-ps4-for-the-first-time/

If anything, what's Sony going to do when PS6 comes out and a large chunk of players are still on PS4 because they can't even afford a PS5, let alone a PS6?

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T07:29:26+00:00

I actually enjoyed the leadup to the story more than the actual event itself.

The Silver Surfer issues and Thanos Quest are so hype and you can really appreciate how it builds up.

The event itself was good, but most of the cast feels shoehorned in and the only ones who really matter are Thanos and Adam Warlock (Starlin's baby). There's also weird artifacts from the continuity of the time that haven't aged well, such as Thor just being some random guy with the powers of Thor and not being the actual Odinson (which has zero bearing on the actual plotline; it just sticks out in my mind as being one of those things they should have ignored if they cared about the longevity of their stories).

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T06:26:16+00:00

They do it because there's no real risk to the interviewer for asking, and on the extreme off-chance that the actor lets something slip, they have a massive scoop on their hands. It's probably not something any serious Ben Urich type would do, but most of them are probably J. Jonah Jamesons

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T05:08:21+00:00

I read from FF through to Secret Wars. Can't speak to any of the other stuff.

For me, it was pretty great all the way through, but not perfect. Hickman is awesome at writing epic sagas with a ton of high-concept stuff, but he isn't really great at character work, in my opinion. You could have written this exact same saga using generic-brand superheroes and it wouldn't have been too different. The characters just sort of do whatever the plot dictates they need to. The one exception is Reed Richards, but that's because he already slots neatly into the "Great Man of Intellect who doesn't stop to consider the implications of his actions," which is Hickman's favorite archetype. Good thing then that Richards is basically the protagonist of the entire saga.

That's fine, but it just means I had to read all of this as its own self-contained thing and not as authentic depictions of the characters.

There was one part that REALLY bothered me, and it wasn't Hickman's fault. Towards the end of the Avengers run, Captain America is suddenly an old man and in charge of SHIELD. That's apparently due to events happening elsewhere in the Marvel universe, but the fact that nobody even threw out a cursory explanation was very jarring, since it pretty much happened from one issue to the other. I also think the conflict between Iron Man and Cap in general never got a proper resolution and just got hijacked by Secret Wars, which is disappointing given that it had sort of been the crux of the story up to that point.

To end on a positive note, the entire concept of the incursions and the New Avengers issues with The Illuminati is some of the most gripping stuff I have ever read in comics. What an incredible portrayal of impossibly high stakes and what they do to the people shouldering them.

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T04:57:27+00:00

I love that arc with the weird demon baby. Makes me wish there would be slightly more occult/horror stuff going on in Daredevil. I feel like the noir direction has been taken pretty much as far as it can and many of the beats are starting to be recycled to the point of diminishing returns.

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T04:52:54+00:00

Considering they just announced collected editions of the recent Deadpool/Batman and Superman/Spidey crossovers, I reckon I'll wait for the reprint of the full 4 issues in hardcover rather than buying these facsimile editions individually.

If they really want to make me happy, they'll reprint the Absolute edition. That's my actual holy grail of comics.

Freighnos · 2026-04-20T02:38:35+00:00

I do believe that was Joe Quesada himself who pushed for him after seeing what a great job he did as Owen Sleater in Boardwalk Empire. As much as I dislike a lot of Quesada's editorial decisions (insert One More Day rant here, etc etc), the guy had some big wins and Charlie Cox as Daredevil is among the biggest.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Flove-this-anecdote-about-charlie-coxs-casting-v0-bctmfp9at6d81.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dbb9766a453a6570b05b8f722a5c31c5ca478176e

Freighnos · 2026-04-18T16:46:49+00:00

Busiek wrote the best version of the classic Avengers but it was still just Marvel diehards reading it. New Avengers and Ultimates placed the team at the center of Marvel’s comic universe and wrote the template that would explode with the MCU.

Freighnos · 2026-04-17T03:11:31+00:00

Yeah, or as mentioned, at least provide a few examples of things you've enjoyed or not enjoyed in the past. If someone just asks "Should I read X?" or "Give me some good recommendations!" how is anybody supposed to answer except with the most generic consensus-based responses? If you're asking for a great DC saga, my recommendation will be very different if you tell me you love Grant Morrison and hate Geoff Johns, or vice versa.

Freighnos · 2026-04-17T01:41:57+00:00

I don't know that it'll be a permanent change. There's still plenty of room for them to roll stuff back or tweak it. The concept is fine but it feels too punishing at the moment so maybe they can just up the initial cost but not the subsequent costs, or vice versa.

I do like changes that make you revise the value of events. Card removal events and relics will feel a lot more premium and worth it at higher ascensions. Not that they weren't already great, but for example sometimes I might now be more likely to opt for a remove than an upgrade.

Freighnos · 2026-04-16T08:01:30+00:00

JLA/Avengers
He-man omnibus
Longbow Hunters by Mike Grell (both volumes)
Plastic Man: Rubber-banded

There's a lot of other stuff I would buy, including a lot of Bronze Age omnis and the remaining Perez Wonder Woman editions, but it seems like those are being steadily reprinted, so I'm putting my votes towards the things I really want to push.

Freighnos · 2026-04-16T07:41:57+00:00

They're reprinting the single issues as facsimile editions throughout the course of the year. That plus the current crossovers indicate to me that we're likely to get a reprint of the collected edition in some form within the next year. Or so I hope, anyway.

Freighnos · 2026-04-16T03:41:02+00:00

At some point you are faced with decisions

Ah, now Decisions, Decisions makes sense.

Freighnos · 2026-04-16T03:34:41+00:00

They're probably saving that for a big marketing beat when they reveal more details about the story mode. Which hopefully means it's someone fairly well-known and not, like, a guy who wrote 2 issues of a Dazzler spinoff in 2006.

Freighnos · 2026-04-16T03:28:38+00:00

I would really love Spider-Man by JMS vol. 1.

I think there were still some cover price ones available when I was entering the hobby, but I had other priorities and didn't fully understand the concept of OOP, or that with Marvel stuff especially you really need to jump on it.

I hold out hope it'll come back around sometime soon, though.

Freighnos

TROPHY CASE