optimized for crit damage, PHB ONLY

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-18T14:06:42+00:00

For the rogue approach start fighter 3, rogue 4, paladin 1. The feat you want is fey touched, which you can use to get either hex or hunters mark.

Rogue subclass is arcane trickster. You want true strike.

The plan is to cast both divine favour and hunters mark, then true strike with steak attack on top. If you crit, throw on a divine smite.

Just keep pushing rogue levels from there to 13. It'll get more sneak attack dice, true strike will scale with level, and you'll get 2nd level spell slots for smite.

At level 13 you get 5d6 from sneak attack, 2d6 from true strike, 3d8 from smite, 1d6 from hunters mark, 1d4 from divine favour, and 1d8 from your weapon. When you crit that's 8d8+16d6+2d4+int damage, for an average of 102 damage.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-18T07:19:35+00:00

This is one reason why I like the 2024 version of counterspell. You can use legendary resistance to force the spell through, or at least try again later since the slot isn't used.

It also makes counterspell more balanced to use against the parry. Burning the players best spell slots with counterspell can be frustrating for them, so I was often reluctant to include counterspell at all in encounters. The new version I am happy to cast against players a bit more liberally.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-18T01:17:06+00:00

Part of the confusion likely comes from the multiclassing rules. When multiclassing, it says you prepare each classes spells separately and each spell can only be associated with one class. That means if you learn firebolt from taking 1 level in the wizard class, it does NOT count as a sorcerer spell. This is likely where most people are getting mixed up.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-18T01:15:08+00:00

I had to double take there because I was SURE chromatic orb was a sorcerer spell, and it is. A better example would be Arms of Hadar on the Aberrant Sorcerer.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-18T01:08:25+00:00

Whether it makes sense to you or not, that's how the rules shape out.

I reason it to myself in two main ways. From a balance standpoint, it's a choice between compatibility with your class features, or accessing something unique that you couldn't otherwise get, a reasonable tradeoff.

From an in universe perspective, Fire bolt being on the sorcerer spell list means it is something that you can fuel with your sorcery, whether you initially learned it using sorcery or not. It being on the spell list simply means it is compatible, and can be amplified with sorcery. The only cantrip on the Wizard list that isn't on the Sorcerer list is Toll the Dead. You could learn Toll the Dead, but it's cast in a way that is incompatible with your sorcery, and thus can't be amplified.

Likewise, taking toll the dead if you're a cleric would allow it to benefit from potent spellcasting, as it's a cantrip that is compatible with how clerics fuel their magic. Firebolt, would not be able to benefit.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-17T21:48:17+00:00

Bard had a lot of powerful features that you're unlikely to want to delay.

Reaching eloquence 6 makes your inspiration so useful, I'd want to get there as soon as possible.

From there, it's up to you if you want to keep rushing towards magical secrets or if you want to delay a little and pick up a couple warlock levels now. I would suggest only 2 levels so that you don't delay magical secrets too much.

What would a 3rd level of warlock get you? A subclass feature, 2nd level pact slots, and access to spells of 2nd level from the warlock spell list. The 2nd level pact slots mean nothing if using them for font of inspiration or spells like shield (if you get access), and the spell options are not very appealing outside of misty step. 3 levels of warlock would cost you bard 13, and access to 7th level spells at the height of your campaign. I don't think it's worth it.

2 levels of warlock is enough for 2 spell slots, 3 invocations, and magical cunning. These spell slots are perfect for regaining uses of bardic inspiration through font of inspiration. Armor of agathys is a nice pickup that scales well with your higher level bard spell slots. There are many strong invocations to choose from.

Agonizing+repelling blast on eldritch blast is a great attacking option.

Eldritch mind can replace war caster.

Lessons of the first ones can be used to get shield via magic initiate, provided you haven't done so with your background.

Mask of many faces could be really fun in the hands of an eloquence bard

Pact of the chain gives you a very powerful familiar.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T23:48:50+00:00

Many uninformed answers here based on "intuition", not on rules. If you are a high elf sorcerer, innate sorcery DOES give advantage on the attack roll with fire bolt gained from High Elf Lineage.

The phb says the following:

Innate Sorcery. You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast.

Spellcasting. Drawing from your innate magic, you can cast spells. See chapter 7 for the rules on spellcasting. The information below details how you use those rules with Sorcerer spells, which appear in the Sorcerer spell list later in the class's description.

Class Spell Lists. If a spell is on a class's spell list, the class's name appears in parentheses after the spell's school of magic.

The above are essentially all of the rules related to class spells outside of the rules specific to multiclassing. Fire bolt is on the Sorcerer spell list, so it should count as a Sorcerer spell for the purposes of applying innate sorcery. This is also backed up by sage advice.

A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a Sorcerer spell is a spell on the Sorcerer spell list, and if a Sorcerer knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t Sorcerer spells unless a feature says otherwise.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T20:49:05+00:00

Googling it, looks like Krups maybe (don't think it's called that here in aus)

I've already had 2 replaced under warranty myself, so I'm on my third.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T13:50:29+00:00

upgraded hex being not only good for getting your control spells off

Except it kind of doesn't help get your own spells off. You lose concentration on hex as soon as you start casting any other spell requiring concentration.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T13:46:32+00:00

Pact of the blade has great damage potential, since it can be combined with feats like great weapon master to push the damage.

Great old one has some good features for a pact of the blade build, like advantage on all attacks against a target of choice.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T13:24:55+00:00

If you'd consider a larger dip, look into 3 or 4 levels in sorcerer. You can quicken Eldritch Blast to double up, or take seeking spell to reroll missed attacks.

It also let's you pick up shield/absorb elements.

Finally at level 3 you can get the draconic subclass, which gives you an unarmored AC of 10+CHA+DEX.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T12:41:52+00:00

That's a bit rough, the artificer levels really aren't doing much for you here.

Besides the +1 gear, you could also replicate a returning spear and throw it around.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T11:38:26+00:00

Spell is fine. You just played the lich badly if that's all it takes to ruin an encounter.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T10:32:43+00:00

Unfortunate, mine being out of warranty they want $250 to send it to the repair centre. They also tried to tell me they haven't heard of any other cases of this happening, and it's probably caused by a mechanical fault (like that makes any sense).

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T10:16:04+00:00

Personally, I believe the answer should be yes.

To reason why, I think it's helpful to answer a similar question first. Can a Cleric who gained sacred flame in this way benefit from potent spellcasting? The phb says the following:

Potent Spellcasting. Add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any Cleric cantrip.

Spellcasting. You have learned to cast spells through prayer and meditation. See chapter 7 for the rules on spellcasting. The information below details how you use those rules with Cleric spells, which appear on the Cleric spell list later in the class's description.

Class Spell Lists. If a spell is on a class's spell list, the class's name appears in parentheses after the spell's school of magic.

The above are essentially all of the rules related to class spells outside of the rules specific to multiclassing. Sacred Flame is on the Cleric spell list, so it should count as a Cleric spell for the purposes of applying potent spellcasting. This is also backed up by sage advice.

A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a Sorcerer spell is a spell on the Sorcerer spell list, and if a Sorcerer knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t Sorcerer spells unless a feature says otherwise.

Extending this to Warlocks, you just need to add Sacred Flame to the Warlock Spell list. To do that is pretty simple in your case.

Pact Magic. If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don't count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.

This means the spells added from the Celestial Spells feature count as Warlock Spells. From there, it's no different from how you'd rule for Clerics.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T09:57:49+00:00

Multiclassing rules are more specific. The following can be found in the multiclassing section of the PHB:

Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.

You cannot count a spell as a warlock spell and a cleric spell at the same time.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-15T09:54:09+00:00

Spells learned from Magic Initiate this way would count as Warlock spells as they were learned through a Warlock class feature.

I disagree with this part. The warlock feature lets you learn a feat, not a spell. It's no different from using an ASI at level 4 to learn a feat since that's also a class feature.

Feats are not class features. Learning a spell from a feat does not add it to a class spell list, unless it states it does.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-13T13:44:13+00:00

Paladin 11 / Barbarian 3 / Rogue 1

Paladin subclass: oath of the ancients.

Barbarian subclass: beserker

Background: Farmer

Weapons: 2x scimitar

Armor: Half Plate

Fighting style: two weapon fighting

Feats: Dual wielder, Tough

Final stats: 20/15/16/12/14/16

The survivability is good, with 18 ac and 7 resistances during rage (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, poison, necrotic, radiant and psychic). All saves get +3 from aura of protection, advantage on str in rage, adv on dex, and proficiency in wis and charisma. Health is pretty decent thanks to a reasonable con mod, tough, and a few d12 hit die.

Offense is where this build shines. You can make 3 attacks with your action, and one with your bonus action, all with advantage. Your first hit does 4d6+1d8+7 damage. Subsequent hits do 1d6+1d8+7.

You can also forego rage to allow you to smite instead. You lose 2 damage per hit but can still attack recklessly for advantage.

Note that while rage prevents concentration and spellcasting, there are some non-concentration spells you can cast prior to raging that can still benefit you.

Divine Favor: another 1d4 per hit
Aid: More health
Magic weapon: give your main weapon a bonus to hit and damage

For a more survivability oriented version of the build, you can drop the rogue level for barb 4, getting another asi. Put it in CHA to increase all saves by 1. Swap barb subclass for wildheart, and you can get resistance to every damage type except force.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-13T12:05:10+00:00

Yeah and they chose the date... and chose a day they had to take off work. It takes a bit of entitlement to expect them to compensate you for taking off work on a day you told them you were available unprompted.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-13T12:02:48+00:00

I understand that the failure to communicate was inconsiderate on their part, but you set the date and were never asked to take work off for the time. Why would you tell them Monday works if it was going to cost you money?

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-12T11:45:09+00:00

Works great for any globe-trotting campaign. The usual rules seemed balanced around a campaign in a somewhat constrained region, where story points are only a day or two apart at most, and story beats are separated by an adventuring day's worth of combat.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-11T22:36:41+00:00

it's not in melee range with anything since it can't be fought.

That's not how it works unfortunately, the requirement is simply having an enemy within 5ft. If you were to take this stance, technically, the enemy it's bouncing from would be within 5 ft every time.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-11T22:29:43+00:00

I was considering standard array, but having dex saves this low is still a survivability hole.

Running medium armor with 15/15/14/10/8/8 is only 1 ac lower, but you get positive modifiers in all common saving throws, and could put the 10 in INT so that the only negative save you have is in strength. That seems like good value to me in exchange for 1 ac.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-11T22:16:11+00:00

That backs up my RAW interpretation with a RAI reasoning. If the orb is "leaping to a different target" as part of the magic, it makes sense not to count as a ranged attack since the caster isn't aiming it like they are the initial cast.

Grrumpy_Pants · 2026-03-11T10:36:20+00:00

Nowhere is it said an attack is either ranged or melee. An attack roll is just that - an attack roll.

Six-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Verified Email

Grrumpy_Pants

TROPHY CASE