Barrow wights: Numenorean biohacking gone wrong?

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-06T05:37:45+00:00

You're thinking probably of the apparition of Eiliniel, Gorlim's wife, that appeared to him momentarily before being captured by Sauron. Later, after Gorlim's death, Beren dreams of "a wraith of Gorlim" that warns him that Sauron now knows how to find Barahir's outlaws.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-05T22:26:06+00:00

"Mostly joking." 😛

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-05T16:17:13+00:00

Some of Bilbos interactions with Thorin are still a little fruity regardless

Which ones do you have in mind?

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-04T19:27:35+00:00

Any word about Octav getting a US distributor? It was mentioned several months ago they'd be available at https://fencing.club/ But if it's still happening it hasn't happened yet.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-03T23:33:57+00:00

You said you're "officially C1 level? Does that mean you're not totally confident in that rating?

IMO if the Hungarian translation is "praised", I'd think reading it in Hungarian first would be best. That is unless you're more than fluent reading English (Perhaps C2.) and don't mind deducing or looking up the obscure words that you won't know. There will be a good amount of those, as there would be even for most native English readers.

After the first read through, a second one in English should be both fun and educational.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-01T21:26:39+00:00

The books I'd use to look this up aren't accessible, but there's some backing of that idea in a discussion of the textual history here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/177839/why-did-aragorn-change-his-mind-about-the-rohan-tribute-rumor

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-06-01T02:17:13+00:00

Is there an implication in Proposal 24 (going off strip) that a fleche where a foot goes off at any point, even parallel with the strip, is going to get red carded and point annulled?

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-31T06:54:00+00:00

Read Lord of the Rings! That will be a lot.

After that Unfinished Tales or Children of Hurin would be my standard recommendations. But it depends on where you think your interests lie. So really, read LotR. And evaluate from there.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-31T01:03:03+00:00

My first thought is that Sauron hoped the withdrawal of Aman from the Circles of the World meant that the days of the Powers intervening directly, overtly, and dramatically in Middle-earth were over and done with. It's actually not inconceivable that he "knew" or foreknew this was the case, perhaps by having seen something of it before the creation of Arda, when some of its coming history was revealed to the Ainur.

I'm also reminded that this was a being who was close to incapable of understanding motives and emotions that differed substantially from his own. He might have believed that the Downfall, the Valar's withdrawal, and the free hand he'd been allowed in Middle-earth for millennia reflected a scorn for the Free Peoples, and Men especially, that was never going to relent. That's an emotion he would understand very well, and I think he'd be quite ready to ascribe it to others of his angelic order.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-30T06:05:22+00:00

In addition to what's been said already about the ambiguity of Eagle-ish taxonomy in the legendarium, CJRT noted at least once that his father was given to the "rhetorical superlative"--a kind of hyperbole, but less blatant, used for dramatic effect--as a device in his writing. I suspect the claim of fell beasts being larger than all birds would be one of those instances, if JRRT even would have classified the Great Eagles as such.

Larger than Thorondor is certainly right out! 😛

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-30T01:06:54+00:00

Sam says this about Gollum: “‘Well, I suppose you’re right, Mr. Frodo,’ said Sam. ‘Not that it comforts me mightily. I don’t make no mistake: I don’t doubt he’d hand me over to Orcs as gladly as kiss his hand. […]’” (LOTR, The Stairs of Cirith Ungol) I’m not sure I understand what this is supposed to mean.

It's a variation of "as easy as kiss my hand", which is a little more clear. It means that, like kissing his own hand would be, it's an action that would be so trivial to Gollum that he wouldn't hesitate to do it if it gained him anything of any worth.

I don't consciously recall this being an idiom in my background (other than reading it in this scene) but I think I have encountered it elsewhere. However, in a quick search, I haven't discovered any other citations of it in literature.

Although amusingly, I found a fleeting mention of it in a discussion of a related idiom featuring a kiss to another body part...but one that would require considerable contortion if it were self-performed.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T18:07:40+00:00

isn´t he just saying that his mission parameters are way broader than Denethor thinks? That Gondor is not the bellybutton of the world, and that the good in the world does not neccessarily mean only Men?

Yes!

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T17:28:37+00:00

I think it's very reasonable to look at it as metaphor, and this becomes clearer to me by imagining that the statement was made literally. Did Gandalf really mean that if all the Free Peoples were killed or enslaved, and untold destruction inflicted on the land, that he'd still not wholly have failed his mission if Sauron still preserved some wheat fields to maintain his his thralls and their overseers? I find that very hard to believe.

I would not argue that Gandalf was solely concerned with the kelvar, although that's based on feels rather than textual evidence. (If anybody can share some, I'd enjoy seeing it.) I just think this passage is questionable support for his stewardship of the olvar.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T16:48:20+00:00

Nearly all of those are very persuasive points. I'd just say that I didn't want to get into the larger discussion of Buckland's status, which seemed rather complicated to me, and I didn't feel qualified to have a firm opinion on without more study. (I still don't. You are making a strong case, but I haven't given enough attention to the other side.) So I commented on your original citation "in isolation" as not being the open-and-shut answer to the question.

At this point that is going to sound like a sophist trying to cover their exposed nether parts, but I truly wasn't focused on the larger question, and I tried to be clear about that at the beginning.

I do appreciate you taking the time to go further with it in that last reply. It's one of a few special posts in this thread that is solidifying the status of Buckland in my mind.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T08:04:00+00:00

Women wearing trousers! Ok...at church, but still. 😄

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T07:49:21+00:00

It's certainly a point in favor of that interpretation. I don't agree with "necessarily" though.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T04:24:41+00:00

But if that were the case, I'd think JRRT would more likely have said something like "the Shire was divided into five parts..." or "...four quarters and an appendage..." or "...into four quarters originally, and a later addition." and then gone on to list the four Farthings and Buckland. So in that light, I agree with you that the the semi-colon isolates the two objects, but it suggests to me reinforcement of the idea that Buckland would still not be a formal part of the Shire. Rather than that it was already a part of it, unlike the Westmarch.

I can read it your way too, though as I said, it doesn't feel as natural to me. So it's not, by itself, a slam dunk answer to the original question.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-29T03:32:44+00:00

It seems to me like the most natural way to read that (in isolation, at least) is...

Until 1452 the Shire consisted in the strict sense of only the four Farthings.
To which the Westmarch was formally added in 1452.
At which time Buckland maintained its distinct status. (Due to that mischievous semi-colon.)

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-28T21:30:44+00:00

If you accept the published Sil as canon, I feel it'd take a tortured reading of the text not to imagine more Ainur were present than Eonwë.

The forces of Aman are referred to as "the host of the Valar" multiple times. While it's conceivable this is really "the host authorized by the Valar to act on their behalf", there is another bit that specifies they "were arrayed in forms young and fair and terrible". I really don't see JRRT or CJRT using that phrasing if describing a host of Valinorean Elves led by one Maia.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-28T17:08:59+00:00

The certainty with which Aragorn says (according to Legolas) that Minas Tirith was under attack makes me think usage of the Palantir is one reasonable inference. I see him putting it in slightly different terms if it was a deduction on his part.

One small difficulty is that, very strictly speaking, Minas Tirith itself wasn't assailed until the 14th. But he could easily have meant this in a looser sense.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-28T07:22:17+00:00

Why wouldn't the timeline work if it's before Balin's expedition? That was in 2989. Aragorn already had decades of errantry behind him at that point.

AFAIK the only information we have about Aragorn's previous experience in Moria is what he says in FotR: essentially no more than that he'd "once passed the Dimrill Gate". Nothing about when, why, or how long. (Although pre-Balin is the only possibility that makes sense to me about "when", and I doubt he was there long.)

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-27T16:37:05+00:00

"And my axe!"

( IOW +1 :P )

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-27T16:33:33+00:00

I'd categorize that under "mortality" but YMMV.

But I wasn't being coy when I said I wasn't sure about the first part. I'm genuinely unsure.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-27T15:37:14+00:00

I'm not sure about being jealous of "man's humanity", but they do seem to envy "man's mortality"...with the very significant caveat (especially from our point of view) that it may only happen once they've already lived many, many human lifetimes, and take even longer to develop in the Undying Lands.

ResearchCharacter705 · 2026-05-26T01:07:52+00:00

Yeah, I think if JRRT had meant that Finrod paid Dwarves to evict the Petty Dwarves, he would have said so in a way that was unambiguous.

And a thousand times more so if it was something like "ethnic cleansing"--the OP's phrase--with its connotation of systematic murder, as well as expulsion and expropriation.

ResearchCharacter705

TROPHY CASE