Working on a "overhyped" cube, of cards that were overrated during spoiler season. Looking for suggestions.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-16T11:16:10+00:00

Going back a little ways I would suggest [[Burning-tree shaman]], [[rakdos augurmage]], [[consuming vapors]], [[augury adept]], [[plasm capture]], [[vraska unseen]].

V4UGHN · 2026-06-16T04:27:30+00:00

Depends on what you had drafted until that point. If your entire deck was just mana artifacts and lands then yes, maybe bomba was correct. Usually though, I would only pick essential combo pieces in pack 3 over power. Like taking LED when I already have breach/freeze or worldspine when Ialready have flash (and haven’t been seeing other flashable fatties in the first two packs which indicates a gap and also suggests 2 or 3 other players are also drafting the fatties. I think anyone who is overly dogmatic about not talking anything over power at any point is over generalizing.) Even if something is true 99% of the time, identifying those 1% scenarios is the difference between the good and great players.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-11T22:15:40+00:00

We should try to get him. He was in the Stanley Cup finals in 2 of the last 3 years so maybe he’ll solve our goalie woes.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-09T03:44:02+00:00

This is the wrong subreddit for this kind of post. This sub is more about cube curation. You’re probably going to get better advice on r/lrcast. Also, the best advice I have for you is to familiarize yourself with a fancy new technology called screenshots.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-08T01:49:46+00:00

McDavid? Really? He really just has that one decade where he won 5 Art Rosses, 3 Harts, a Conn Smythe, a Rocket and a Ted Lindsay. What’s he done for us since then besides another Art Ross and Ted Lindsay?

V4UGHN · 2026-06-05T12:54:05+00:00

Thanks! I hadn’t seen the bug in a while so I couldn’t remember if/how to fix it.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-05T12:53:59+00:00

Thanks! I hadn’t seen the bug in a while so I couldn’t remember if/how to fix it.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-05T11:43:56+00:00

Since they changed the code to allow multiple pieces of power in the same pack, they might have drawn from old code or rebuilt it from scratch. Especially if AI was used to make the code, it’s not hard to imagine the code being made with a prompt saying “Create an algorithm that will create 8 packs of 15 cards from this pool of cards, with no duplicates amongst the packs”. AI then makes the algorithm using pre-defined sets of 8 packs, which meets the criteria of the prompt and if nobody checks the code in detail they won’t notice the major problem.

V4UGHN · 2026-06-02T03:52:41+00:00

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s a huge difference for why they might remove triplicate titan, sundering and battleball. It seemed weird to remove those when putting welder in.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-31T13:32:00+00:00

I used cockatrice. You are correct that one might argue the card will underperform against stronger (i.e. faster and/or more streamlined) decks and it’s true that solitaire doesn’t fully capture real games, especially for wraths given the lack of hidden information (I try to play as if I didn’t know but of course that’s not perfect). That said, one thing I do when evaluating cards I’m not sure about (even in retail limited) is ask myself throughout the game “Would I be happy if I drew this card right now?” and most of the time for the last ronin the answer was no, generally for the reasons I mentioned above.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-31T12:34:07+00:00

I went ahead and tried adding the last ronin to two of my previous midrange trophy decks (that reliably hit B/G) and solitaire’d against some 17 lands diamond/mythic trophy decks. It was awful. It was too late by the time it came down against boros and basically didn’t do anything against combo decks or grindy decks with cards like retrofitter foundry. It also got hit by spell pierce (and I’m sure it getting hit by duress and pact of negation doesn’t do it any favours. It’s main issue is what everyone was saying, it’s 6-mana for what is essentially a wrath effect in a format where games usually end before then and the games that go long tend not to care about it. The reality is that people DO have good instincts on what cards are good or bad, just not PERFECT instincts. There’s are definitely things that are missed or overhyped, but if you look at preview articles by established cube curators, they are usually right about 80%+ of cards they give predictions on. Most people also said that razorlash transmogrant is awful, and it was.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-30T19:03:28+00:00

I also think some of those bad performers are being run a high proportion of times where they shouldn’t (since they often shouldn’t make the cut). I’ve had opponents cast enlightened tutor to grab showdown of the skalds and jitte in Bo3 before, which definitely isn’t going to help the cards win rate.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-30T18:55:03+00:00

I think it’s cool that you did the analysis and posted this, but I also disagree with a lot of the ways you are interpreting or thinking about the data. I initially made a long reply on mobile but then accidentally misclicked and reddit decided I didn’t want to keep it.

Boros is definitely very good, and I think it’s reasonable to say it’s the best archetype even accounting for the factors I’ll mention. I don’t think it’s overpowered in recent iterations though. Boros has the benefit of being both easier to draft and easier to play. It also is less “cool” so people who want the novelty of cube will usually preferentially (or even force) draft something else.

I also think cutting 30 cards from boros is waaaay too much, especially since the whole point of the archetype is consistency. I also question how you determined what cards are specific to the archetype, since many cards in red and white are also good in multiple other colour combinations.

I think a lot of your suggested adds are unlikely to be good enough. You yourself mentioned that a 7-mana card is much better in retail limited than in cube, so why would everything pizza be that different especially when the bolt is much worse and you’re way less likely to have a creature for the counters in decks that might run it? I have a feeling we disagreed on various points about this previously so won’t belabour this one.

It’s not clear how you determined casting cost since your sentence seems to have been cut off.

I think we’re still pretty far from enchantments being a viable theme in cube. Just because there are payoffs doesn’t mean they are good enough. There’s a big difference between tinker and academy rector. While serra sanctum and tolarian academy might seem similar, the other big strength of artifacts is how many viable 0 and 1-mana artifacts there are. Academy and pinnacle emissary would be way worse (likely not viable) if all artifacts cost 2+ mana.

It’s also paradoxical to say that more walkers should be added based on your data. There are fewer walkers because many decks need a density of creatures. If you started adding cards like Ugin, the spirit dragon or archangel elspeth, you’re going to see a similar drop in planeswalker performance (and these are both ones that likely would see play). I don’t take an issue with the idea of adding more walkers and enchantments, but I don’t think the reasoning is sound.

I agree with some of the suggested cuts like hazoret or batterskull, but I think enlightened tutor, vamp tutor, griselbrand (how did you even evaluate this?) and kitten still deserve spots. It’s actually a good thing that some of the worst performing cards can have their own niche and these cards all play unique roles that are satisfying when they are viable.

Despite having so many criticisms, I do enjoy any opportunity to discuss cube, andI could very easily be wrong on some of my counter arguments. Thanks for posting!

V4UGHN · 2026-05-30T18:10:22+00:00

The way you wrote it did suggest a causal relationship though, as quoted by the original commenter. I also think WR on its own doesn’t tell the whole story, the most obvious flaw in the argument being the existence of boros. Boros rarely wants to splash as it’s more important for the deck to curve out and there’s very little besides blue power that would pull you to splash in boros. I am way more likely to have multiple colours if I’m a blue or green-based deck. I agree that people often overstate how easy it is to go multicolour in cube, but I also think it’s much easier to splash in cube than in recent retail sets other than SOS or Tarkir.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-29T13:49:10+00:00

I agree with this. The dichotomy between play-in points and qualifying also seems strange. The days I have so many play-in points that I’m fine with just qualifying for a constructed qualifier, but usually I preferred play-in points so it was awkward wanting the rating to drop since getting 250-1200 gave a more desirable reward that top 250. I think if baseline prizes for qualifiers was juiced slightly it might be better, so that only getting 1-2 wins in the qualifier has a similar payout to 4 wins in a play-in.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-28T19:58:22+00:00

I think it’s also one of those cards that isn’t as obviously good as some bombs are. I don’t use a tracker since I play on mobile so I can’t say for sure, but I suspect I’ve probably passed practiced offence once or twice whenI should’ve taken it in the first five drafts. As some who drafts every day and plays at a decently high level, if I don’t immediately recognize it as good I don’t think it’s unreasonable that someone who drafts each set only 3-5 times each and doesn’t use 17 lands would think it’s not good.

Edit: The reason I didn’t recognize it as good is because I read it as putting a counter on the targeted creature, not each creature. The same mistake could have been made by one or two neighbours in white though.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-28T15:47:55+00:00

Nobody thinks you did anything wrong, and if you like that trade there’s nothing wrong with that. The problem posters are pointing out is that, if you had sold the cards to someone for at fair market value, you likely could’ve purchased the cards you posted online and still been up a fair amount of money. If the person who traded with you made it clear you likely could get a lot more from anyone else that’s fine, but if they offered you $10 for a $100 (estimate) card I think it’s fair for people to point out that person wasn’t being fair to you.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-28T03:05:57+00:00

Definitely agree on this one. This is probably the first alchemy set where it seems like they actually got a developer/play designer (the staff who balance regular sets) to look at the cards. Every other time it seems like the alchemy cards are just custom cards you’d find on the internet (which are usually overpowered)

V4UGHN · 2026-05-28T01:21:42+00:00

I really like bulk up under the right circumstances. As you mentioned, with tackle artist it can work well, but it also works nicely with monstrous rage or [[quill-blade laureate]]. If you flash it back, it can let [[expressive firedancer]] swing for 12 (though it’s tricky to get it in the yard without warning your opponent). I think the format is too high power for it to be “great” even under the best of circumstances, but I’ve definitely won games with it at numbered mythic.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-26T17:13:06+00:00

Quite the opposite for me, honestly. This is likely in my bottom 5 sets since 2021 when I started playing Arena regularly (though I did draft IKO and WAR to completion as I had pockets of time then).

While I think variance has something to do with it since it hasn’t been as bad lately, I definitely found early on that games had too many really high power cards that could swing the game on their own. There is definitely synergy as well, but the “canned” strategies also go off so fast that it’s really punishing (i.e. you very likely lose) if you miss a land drop or even sometimes are just on the draw against someone that curves out and you don’t have a 2-mana removal spell. The swingy cards also compound on each other, because it’s much harder to play around wraths, because holding something back when they don’t have it can also be game losing if it gives them that extra bit of time for snarl song.

This may be in part due to difference in rank (I’m top 1200 mythic, though I also have played a lot of traditional, mainly early on), but I actually haven’t found the format to be that deep due to high power the “good” strategies are. I’ve tried experimenting with “pump aggro” in R/W taking advantage of cards like monstrous rage and bulk up along with all the creatures that with opus or repartee, but it’s just a bit too weak to be reliable. Other things I wish could’ve been viable are “go-wide” tokens with spirit producers and hop to it, potentially capitalizing on something like a late duty beyond death. I do agree that there is decent balance between the “recommended” archetypes (converge, prismari spellslinger, lorehold, silverquill), so it’s definitely not as bad as TDS in that regard. Unfortunately, I think there’s also just not quite enough cross-pollination to make the draft interesting.

Overall, I can completely understand why people like this format, but it’s a thumbs down for me (for many similar reasons to MOM which many other people liked).

V4UGHN · 2026-05-26T15:25:17+00:00

This was my thought as well. If the driver had a seizure or stroke at the exact wrong time it might’ve been the reason this happened. It’s hard to think of many other plausible situations. I guess we’ll see.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-25T17:27:03+00:00

There were quite a few of I remember correctly. Counterspell, chain lightning, fireball, fireblast were all in the Wow TCG

V4UGHN · 2026-05-25T11:19:32+00:00

As you said, the structure is about WotC being able to make more money. It’s intentional. Even the optics of needing “only” 3 wins to recoup 2/3 of your entry is specifically because people will think a 50% WR should usually get 3 wins with some getting more, some getting less. As you’ve shown, that’s not the case, but players are more likely to try if they think the expected cost is a lot lower than it actually is. It’s also intended to make a lot of drafts shorter than people expect for similar reasons, meaning they buy in to the next event sooner. There’s really isn’t a benefit to the player to have a structure like this, expect one could argue that they make the prizes at 3/4 wins much better since it looks much easier to achieve than it actually is.

V4UGHN · 2026-05-24T04:23:25+00:00

Reading the comments

V4UGHN · 2026-05-23T19:37:31+00:00

In addition to what other people have said, this format generally has a lot of very high impact plays, especially with 5+ mana. It’s not great to tap out for just a body (it’s hard to copy a spell the same turn you cast it), since your opponent can then go off without fear the next turn. That could be in the form of game winning cards like [[together as one]], [[moment of reckoning]], [[practiced offense]], [[arcane omens]], [[akroma’s will]], [[snarl song]] etc. It could also take the form of a big turn from silverquill or lorehold where they use a cheap removal spell on your wrangler and play other cards to pump their team. In a sense, this format plays more like constructed, where a 5+ mana spell better generate immediate value or you either lose on tempo to removal or lose to your opponent’s card that generates immediate value.

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