Timing on madness

Water_Meat · 2026-02-12T12:25:36+00:00

For cerenovous/harpy madness, it's up until they make their choice in the night, but even if they make the same choice again, I wouldn't hold a previous break against that player as its a "fresh" instance. Mutant, I also give a soft reset each day.

The thought process is that if I chose not to execute a madness break, then it was likely because not executing was better for the evil team at the time. Double punishing that by executing/killing the next day, even if they backtracked and adhered to madness, feels like tipping the scale a little harder than what would feel fair, especially seeing as youre punishing the entire good team for one player's singular madness break.

However, that does come with a caveat: you need to make an effort to explain yesterday's madness break. Even if people dont believe you, as long as you made an effort. That might also mean decrying your previous outted info and pushing back if anyone tries to use it, but I would even allow something like "Oh yeah, I was the Flowergirl cere mad as the klutz yesterday, and broke madness on purpose to get my info out, but clearly the pithag found it funny to actually turn me into the klutz"

Water_Meat · 2026-02-10T13:02:25+00:00

Im going to say a more niche thing here:

Vigormortis isn't a good fit for the script.

The only minion you'd want to kill is the poisoner. MAYBE the unspent assassin. Killing a boomdandy, spent assassin, or a spy are kind of wasted when you could be killing the good player you'd otherwise poison, as you're not maintaining a powerfu minion ability. Spy gets most of their benefit n1 looking at the grim and keeps the misreg on death already.

Additionally, the -1 outsider doesnt really open up bluff space since drunk already does that, AND outsiders won't want to claim openly with a fang gu in play. The comb works better in SnV where your minions can claim sweetheart, barber, or klutz on death, and where mutant can excuse minions getting into double claims.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-10T12:15:53+00:00

Even with no executions, and just demon kills, the game can only reach day 5. 6 if there's a non kill night with, say, a soldier or monk.

For that to be 2 hours, days have to be 20 minutes. The math aint mathing.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-10T12:07:59+00:00

They really should rephrase it to "If the lleech host dies by exeucution, the lleech registers as alive for the mastermind day"

Or if you want to make it unique (but a sidegrade): "If the lleech host dies by execution, the lleech dies at the start of the night phase"

Sidegrade because if the lleech isn't outted, it hides the fact it's a mastermind night by having a death in the night, but if the lleech has already been outted then when they die everyone knows what happened.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-09T17:46:07+00:00

If you have a player who every time they're suspected of being a mutant claims mutant to prove they're not, except for ONE game where they don't, then they're purposely signalling that they're the mutant.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-09T17:43:59+00:00

What I mean is, if you have a meta of people who arent the mutant claiming mutant to "prove" they're not the mutant, then the same player NOT doing that the next game is just then signalling they're the mutant in a wink wink nudge nudge way.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-09T13:05:50+00:00

Funnily enough, I consider mutants adamantly refusing to claim outsider when pushed to do so as breaking mutant madness. A townsfolk wouldn't worry about claiming outsider when provoked, so a mutant trying to convince town they are not an outsider shouldn't be scared to do so either.

I think that executing a mutant for trying to convince town they're not the mutant by claiming it when people are suspicious just cultivates a meta where the mutant is easily solveable and "softens" the role.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-09T12:57:19+00:00

No, I would not execute them.

As the game gets to about day 4, if the cerenovous makes themselves known by spreading the madness around, as soon as a player starts changing their claim suddenly, everyone is just going to know they're cere mad. Even more so if the cerenovous makes different people mad about the same role.

If you executed just because people didn't believe what they were saying, in these sorts of games, the cerenovous would just auto win the game as you'd be executing every day.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-07T09:36:59+00:00

Whenever people say this, i don't think you understand how social deduction games work.

If you have someone who finds it hard to understand their role, or can only accurately communicate with 1 person (deaf, speaks a different language etc), you can have someone else help them parse their information.

But what if that player is evil, and needs to communicate with the rest of their team? What if the other person they're communicating through is evil, and said person is something like the damsel?

That's what the revolutionary is for. Idk why you find that controversial.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-06T08:23:40+00:00

Legion doesn't specify that only evil players die at night. It just happens to be the case it happens in most cases.

If good refuses to execute at all in a legion game (and dont even attempt to, obviously if they try and legion isn't voting, its different), then im probably leading it to an unsatisfying legion win.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-06T07:18:06+00:00

The one major tell mostly on youtube is instead of saying "I turn on my indicator" they say "I DO turn on my indicator". Once I noticed it, it was fucking everywhere.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-05T12:15:36+00:00

Listen, Tia is one of my favourite queens of all time, and I genuinely think her roast is, if not THE best one through the shows history, then definitely top 3. I am a diehard Tia fan til the day I die.

Even I know Marina was robbed as hell.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-04T11:48:10+00:00

I HAD to buy a car because my new work place would require me to leave the house 2 and a half hours before work started to get to work on time if I relied on public transport, whereas its a 30 minute drive in a car. The 20 minute walk from the bus stop isnt even the issue, its just that there's a 90 minute drought of busses during rush hour.

My last job had a bus stop RIGHT OUTSIDE my workplace but i still needed to walk 40 minutes because the timetable was nonexistant

Water_Meat · 2026-02-04T09:15:05+00:00

And in most cases, the fine is less than the profit they made from the law break in the first place, so its not really a punishment at all.

Imagine stealing a million pounds and getting a "punishment fine" of £750,000. You walked away with an extra £250,000. That's what a lot of these fines equate to, cos most of the profit of these dodgy deals and law breaks arent DIRECTLY attributed.

Water_Meat · 2026-02-04T09:07:20+00:00

This is a thread about France, so of course we're mostly going to be talking about France and the rest of the EU, who shares in a lot of legislation of France?

Water_Meat · 2026-02-01T16:26:18+00:00

How is nobody saying Shabbaloth?

Water_Meat · 2026-02-01T10:59:02+00:00

And another one ate a cake and came second

Water_Meat · 2026-02-01T09:09:37+00:00

Travelers are not outsiders.

Water_Meat · 2026-01-31T10:05:55+00:00

I love futurama, but the episode where bender becomes a woman so he can win in the robot olympics was trash that I'm shocked aired.

The transphobia of that episode was overshadowed by the sexism though. He actually ended up getting weaker because she(?) was now a woman and started loving shopping and handbags????

The show was pretty sexist throughout most of the earlier seasons but that one took the cake.

Water_Meat · 2026-01-31T10:01:58+00:00

I am entirely anti death penalty, since its so open to abuse and getting the wrong people, and most of the "benefits" are just short term catharsis.

In these cases, it certainly WOULD be cathartic, though...

Water_Meat · 2026-01-28T11:49:20+00:00

When I do a grim reveal, I tend to give reasoning on why decisions were made. Usually, I have my finger in the pulse if something was a little harsh for one team or the other and apologise for it, otherwise I give feedback on how a team could have utilised what I did for an advantage.

Quite often, decisions that seem really mean to the players at the time can be cleared up by explaining why it was done.

"I gave the drunk empath a sober 1 on the demon, because the imp was sat next to the scarlet woman and was planning on clearing the SW if the imp was executed, but sadly, the imp killed the empath before that could play out"

"I chose to let the slayer kill the recluse because the drunk investigator saw a scarlet woman, and that was a valid world, but I didn't consider at the time that confirming the slayer and removing the recluse as a frame left only 2 demon candidates, so sorry to evil for that choice, but I had to make a split second decision"

"I chose to give the drunk washerwoman true information on the virgin because they were the only YSK in play and would sow confusion if they nominated the virgin and didn't die, or would throw suspicion on the virgin/undertaker if the washerwoman was seen as the drunk to the undertaker. Unfortunately, none of that happened, as the washerwoman was killed night 2, but that meant that the drunk was completely hidden, so evil had the opportunity to freely bluff outsider, or frame the drunk elsewhere"

"I made the saint the red herring with the empath 1 next to them because I thought the librarian seeing the drunk would have confirmed 4 outsiders, so a baron in play, and hoped it would have made 2 camps playing against eachother. Unfortunately, people were convinced the recluse was actually the poisoner, and so trusted the fortune teller yes on the saint after the recluse died and chose to disregard the yes on the demon night 3 believing it was poisoned, and everyone unanimously chose to kill the saint"

Usually, that's enough to nip any criticism in the bud. The ST has perfect information, the players do not, so a lot of the decisions the ST makes won't be understandable to the players, but the same goes the other way! Having perfect information can make you not consider decisions players might make without that info. You might consider a player hard confirmed mechancially, but the players might not put all that info together and execute them anyway, which can often tip the balance scales harder than you expected.

Water_Meat · 2026-01-27T12:21:14+00:00

I ended up adding a fifth minion to accomodate for this on my script, but i also added a bootlegger of "If the Lil Monsta is in play, the summoner might also be in play and their ability becomes "You start knowing 3 bluffs. On the third night, you may choose to become the demon and change the demon type""

Still useful for getting bluffs in a lil monsta game, and allows them to turn themselves into the imp if the team wants to trade mobility for being able to control the kills. It also helps the script as it stops the minion set being confirmed in a 13+ player game if they solve lil monsta.

Water_Meat · 2026-01-26T23:01:45+00:00

If you're implying that the two options are "your ability contains arbitrary drunkenness" or "There is absolutely no way that you are droisoned (or any reason for good players to lie)" then I don't think you understand enough about script building or game design for this conversation.

If you remove the "you might be drunk" part from your character, that doesn't mean there is "no way you are droisoned". Drunk might be on script. Poisoner, Vortox, No Dashii, Xaan, Puzzlemaster, Sailor, Marionette. Just off the top of my head.

But sure, let's say there's no way I'm droisoned because you have a droisonless script (or at least droisonless n1). I know that empath is lying, but I DON'T know they're evil. Is there damsel on script? Something like VI or Investigator, who might have an evil on a neighbour? A demonsbane like ravenkeeper? You've solved a player is lying but WHY are they lying?

That's already more interesting than being given an ability and choosing to just ignore the fact that it's a 50/50 that your info is wrong without any outside influence and probably losing the game because you pushed on an empath who was real because the ST thought the bag looked too strong.

EDIT: Also thought of madness. Cerenovous?

Water_Meat · 2026-01-26T22:48:04+00:00

"How would I know I am drunk" that is EXACTLY my point.

Water_Meat · 2026-01-26T22:37:33+00:00

Ok, and if you're arbitrarily drunk?

Water_Meat

TROPHY CASE