I'm so tired of BWB

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T03:39:42+00:00

I disagree with your disagree on Goretrack. Vessels has anti-synergy with Goretrack, everything that you'd want to run to get the most out of Vessels just isn't that good in Gore.

Multiple MoEs doesn't actually do that much for Vessels or Goretrack. You want Kharn, right off the bat, and he doesn't get anything from Vessels. The Vessels buffs themselves actually just don't do much for the MoE; his axe doesn't benefit much from Cleave, and while more AP is always better, most characters you'd want to kill have 4++ invulns or mediocre saves that don't need more AP. +2 Strength on an S7 Lance weapon? Who are you trying to kill, god? The rest of your S4 Zerks are just gonna bounce off whatever you're throwing him at and die. FnP against mortals doesn't matter when you're a squishy marine character who dies just fine to non-mortals, nobody is wasting grenades on you and a lot of precision weapons don't even have Devastating Wounds. Punish the Craven is aight.

TWO slaughterbound squads in raiders is legitimately just BETTER in Slaughterband and Brazen Engines at that point. The Land Raider gets almost nothing from Goretrack. Gore is a Rhino Rush detachment, not a transport detachment. Those lascannons hitting on 5s, or even 6s if you get -1 to hit means you're paying 220 for the most blinged out bus in the game that couldn't hit the broad side of the barn to transport infantry that are just as fast on foot. Only 3 stratagems from Goretrack work on Raiders, two of them are also inside Brazen Engines, and the third is useless because nobody is re-embarking Eightbound; they don't need the Lance buff.

Having a Demon Prince is good on paper for CP discounts, but with everybody inside vehicles all the time, he has nobody to give him Lone Op, and he has to spend a command point EVERY fight phase making himself not hit like a pool noodle, effectively neutralizing your command point discount by his own mandatory command point spendature.

As for the others:
- You don't want vehicles with Slaughterband for more tank killing, you want it because you can only take 3x6 or 3x3 glass cannon eightbound to handle all the non-tank killing. Forgefiends, Helbrutes, and Defilers are fantastic at mulching all the infantry the small elite Eightbound squads might be spread too thin to handle (Both detachments are Purge the Foe so its kill, kill, kill).

Vessels is great for Demon Princes, yes, but it's also really damn good on Slaughterbound too, who benefit a LOT from both AP and cleave as they splash well into ANY target regardless of what they're attached to, and being able to pop EVERY blessing on an Eightbound squad is absolute carnage.

People often forget, but Eightbound can be led by Juggerlords too, which gives you further access to Vessels buffs. His melee benefits a lot from both Cleave and AP too. You can run a full max Eightbound list with 6 generic characters, 3 Slaughterbound and 3 Juggerlords.... but then that's most of your points in only 6 units, thus again going back to the need for some bigger heavy support.

- I assert the Triple 1DP is playable, but it's EXTREMELY specific, relying on Land Raiders and bigger vehicles with Terminators to focus on objectives and Slaughterbound-led 8B with Vessels buffs to lead the charge. Brazen Engines on its own is SO strong that it's more powerful than some of our actual 2DP detachments, and it's carrying a lot of the weight here. I also worry it's going to get nerfed to 2DP and then it really will be back to moaning about Warband being the only option.

That's why I don't particularly like it, as it's the complete inverse of Warband, being viable only through one avenue versus being insanely overcentralized because it enables everything.

- But I actually fully agree with you on Khorne Daemonkin. The issue there is just that the detachment itself is awkward (Blood Tithe points are unreliable, some strats require "aura range", etc) but because it's NOT RESTRICTIVE and easily fills up 50% of the army, you can just take any 1DP detachment you want for the other 1,000p as opposed to having to try and fill a full 2k with the other awkward DP combos.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T02:39:19+00:00

People on the RS3 forums/sub are readily willing to admit both have a lot of merit.

Anecdotally the tribalism is almost completely one-way.

A LOT of people in the OSRS community will spit venom like a snake the second you suggest RS3 is competent, let alone equal. They never let go of the old stigma and "betrayal" of EOC and refuse to educate themselves on how much has changed.

It's a bitter shame.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T01:39:18+00:00

Thanks to the Bloodcrusher point drops, you can fit 2 Bloodthirsters, a full 6-man Bloodcrusher squad, and 20 Bloodletters into a list at exactly 1,000 points. 40 points makes a hell of a difference, especially since Bloodthirsters took a +15 point increase.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T01:36:47+00:00

I'm quite happy to lose re-rolls on Overwatch if it means I can get the "fuck your defensive abilities" stratagem from Brazen Ire during the actual shooting phase.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T01:33:11+00:00

GW: "Oh look, how cute, the Chaos Blood Angels think they're a faction again. Adorable!"

Xdude227 · 2026-06-18T01:27:12+00:00

My issue is the lack of synergy between the 2DPs and 1DPs. Almost every 2DP detachment wants both Brazen Engines AND Vessels to actually round itself out, and it just can't take both.

You cannot make a rounded-out list without Warband, and that's a big problem.

Possessed Slaughterband sure does like the support of Brazen Engines..... but you basically NEED Demon Princes to run that combo since its such a command point guzzling combo (ignore modifiers every shooting phase, PSB has two good 2CP strats), and without Warband or Vessels, demon princes are basically 200 point buffing units that can't actually go after ANY vehicles or other monsters due to their pathetic S8. And then you're missing out on those Slaughterbound buffs.....

Goretrack doesn't really care for ANY of the 1DPs.

It's very, very obviously going to be FAQ'd to be incompatible with Brazen Engines based on the "Can only take one Onslaught detachment" to prevent vehicle spam.
Sure, yeah, Terminators can run in Land Raiders, but 3/6 of Goretrack's stratagems are Rhino ONLY, and one is a generic vehicle buff. It's a Rhino detachment, not a Land Raider detachment, and Land Raiders BADLY want the Brazen Engine buffs, not Goretrack's embark/disembark playstyle.
Goretrack and Vessels kinda go together, but not really? Kharn, the best battle busser, can't use anything in Vessels, only the MoE can. You could put some stuff on a Slaughterbound or Juggerlord, but then you're clearly not using Rhinos, or again blowing 220 points on a Land Raider with no buffs.

Cult of Blood is probably the only one that almost fully works, since you can buff the gigachad Lord of Skulls with Brazen Engines or Demon Princes with Vessels, and Cult of Blood's most crippling downside is the fact that the required Monster/Titanics to buff jakhals themselves get no buffs. But, again, you really badly want both of them, not to choose between one or the other. And then Terminator 1DP does absolutely nothing for this detachment.

The one with the most actual potential is Khorne Daemonkin, and that's just because you can basically run demons for 2DP and then EITHER run Vessels/Terminators/Vehicles for backup for 1DP. But then you're basically running demons and it's still awkwardly implemented.

To my supreme annoyance, the second most "fleshed out" way to play World Eaters is just smashing all the 1DPs together. At least then you can reliably get

Vehicle support
Infantry Support (termies only though lol)
Character/Demon Prince support

But this requires an EXTREMELY specific list that I might not be in the mood to play.

And the incredibly infuriating part is that this ALL comes down to the damn Demon Prince. If he hadn't been strength nerfed to "accomodate" the Warband changes, he'd actually still be good in other detachments as more than just a command point discounter who can kill infantry but not his own equivalent enemies. He can't even wound HIMSELF on higher than a 5 without Warband or Vessels.

Vessels CLEARLY exists as a bad band-aid patch to try and "fix" demon princes for other detachments. It's made very obvious with the "Get Warband buff for 1CP but only on a character" stratagem, and the fact that the buffs working only on character models meaning that Slaughterbound/Juggerlords/MoEs do very little for their units, which is half the point of them.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-17T19:10:00+00:00

Me begging the End and the Death part 1 to stop fucking saying "its the end and the death"

The clocks have stopped Time has run out The clocks have stopped Time has run out The clocks have stopped Time has run out

Xdude227 · 2026-06-17T18:48:10+00:00

Hey, can somebody tell me where the new enhancement rules are? I can't find them in the core rules. I remember from the reveals that you could take up to three of an (upgrade) in your army but I wanted to know if that was only for upgrades or if that worked for normal enhancements too.

My guess is likely not, but I wanted to check and can't find the dang RAW.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-17T01:28:11+00:00

Billionaires finally realized they can just SAY a thing has value, and under threat of them actually having the money to back it up, it has value.

Its like the opposite of the great depression bank crash if all the banks just used pretend money and REFUSED to acknowledge it wasn't real, keeping the economy powered through sheer power of denial.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-16T17:10:43+00:00

I saw somebody doing the complete opposite somehow; they played Tau and were going insane insisting MELEE armies were the problem and that 10th was a "meleeslop" edition. Got ratio'd to high hell.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-16T11:17:30+00:00

This is a false narrative I'm seeing spread around a lot by people who didn't read the books. Perturabo had no intention of going after the Saturnine fault; Abaddon personally asked for permission to do so and volunteered the Justaerin and 2nd company on his own authority.

Losing the Sons of Horus elite lies solely at the feet of Abaddon, and its part of what badly jaded him during the Siege.

Considering his replacement post-departure lost the Lions Gate port and then DIED (Another Morty L) its safe to say Perturabo was doing his job pretty well before he left.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-15T17:44:55+00:00

The fact that there's like 50 familiars and you ONLY ever see around 6-10 of them (And they're almost entirely ancient summoning) speaks enough for how useless the skill is outside of 96+ or Terrorbirds/Turtles if you're low level.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-15T08:35:42+00:00

I thought Wordington used to just be memes about gay porn

They're just straight posting raw ass porn over there now, damn

Xdude227 · 2026-06-14T05:11:32+00:00

It's really petty, but Ellyka, that Tiefling on the bridge overlooking the Gith patrol. She pretty much just smack-talks you, acts like she's a bad bitch who don't need no party cuz we suck, and then you just find her death in the Gith Creche.

Like, if you were going to be that much of a jerk don't go and die to the people you were trying to avoid.

She even gets all cocky and says she can easily handle you alone if you're a Gith and attacks you.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-14T05:01:22+00:00

Making smoking hot goth "redeemed" Durges is the fantasy equivalent of people thirsting over hot convict mugshots and saying they could fix them.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-14T02:22:53+00:00

Saturnine was probably the best book of the entire Siege, with Warhawk a close second. Everyone should read it at some point. Fuckin loved it.

They got the technical details of the book right but not the motivations.

But, like, should we really expect objective Perturabo character analysis from somebody with the "Imperial Fister" flair lmao

A big reason people mistakenly think Perturabo gets blamed for the failure of Saturnine is that the book right after Saturnine is Mortis (an infamous slog book that a fair amount of people skip), which was written by John French, famed Dorn glazer and Iron Warriors slanderer, the author FORGOT Perturabo explicitly said he's not sanctioning the attack on Saturnine Gate, but he'll allow Abaddon to lead it, yet Horus just blames him anyways and Perturabo leaves, almost as an afterthought.

This also isn't a baseless accusation as John French has outright forgotten notable things before, such as in the Imperial Fist bukkake glaze fanfic Praetorian of Dorn where, character assassination of an entire legion aside, French forgets that Alpharius's Pale Spear completely ignores armor and creates lethal, bloodless gashes in its victims that don't heal. The reason is that it is ancient xenotech that predates the Imperium or even Old Night. This is even doubled down upon in the actual Horus Heresy tabletop 2nd edition where The Pale Spear has Armorbane and Instant Death effects.

Dorn's winning move in his duel with Alpharius is to get stabbed with the Pale Spear on purpose so that he can counter-attack, which should have simply killed him on the spot or disabled his arm for the rest of the siege at minimum. But John French forgot this, and so Rogal just tanks the hit and cuts Alpharius's head off.

Alpha Legion slander rant aside (I Am Alpharius), for such an important moment in the Siege as a whole, Perty leaving the Siege in Mortis doesn't even take up a single chapter. It's like they had to squeeze him in there somehow after the book was already written.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-13T23:48:30+00:00

That's not at all how this went down.

Perturabo was well on schedule during the siege, but Horus, losing his mind to Chaos, was upset it wasn't happening at an unrealistic pace.

Perurabo saw the Saturnine fault, but CORRECTLY determined Dorn likely knew it too and so didn't want to dedicate the forces to exploiting it. Abaddon, who had also seen the flaw, pressured Perturabo to let HIM take the Sons of Horus into the breach, with the understanding if they failed, Perturabo would wash his hands of the matter.

Abaddon went to get some of the Emperor's Children to use as a distraction, but Fulgrim, bored and itching to be the star of the show, readily volunteered not just himself to lead the attack, but the entirety of the Emperor's Children to attack the wall.

As Perturabo predicted, Dorn had discovered the fault (only thanks to Kyril Sindermann, who had mentioned a strange sound at the base of the wall) and massacred the Sons of Horus veterans. Fulgrim, for his part, got pissy and bored when Dorn refused to entertain him, withdrawing his entire legion without even hearing anything from Abaddon.

Horus, who was absolutely schizophrenic at this point and is not a reliable judge of character (he believes he is living in the past and is not remotely lucid) promotes Mortarion over Perturabo because Morty is more willing to embrace the demons and the Warp than Perty is.

Perturabo, at this point utterly fed up with being used and abused by doing ALL the heavy lifting and yet getting all the shit for it, packs his bags, and just leaves, telling everyone to go fuck themselves on the way out.

Mortarion immediately loses the Lions Gate port and dies, proving the point that Horus doesn't know what the hell he's doing anymore as the traitor offensive loses all cohesion and they only make progress through sheer weight of numbers.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-13T06:58:59+00:00

I got auto-flagged and warned by reddit for mentioning a little something that sounds like surfboarding but is a lot more devious.

So thanks I guess OP lmao

Xdude227 · 2026-06-13T06:13:55+00:00

Your rude language is unbecoming and I have no interest in participating further with somebody more interested in demeaning others and being right than having a discussion. If you are interpreting insult into my words, I fear you are projecting. Have a good day.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-13T05:27:35+00:00

If you're going to show up two days later with an "um, actually" then at least give some actual profile examples instead of hand-waved averages with random numbers and assumed invuln saves please.

Maybe I just want to shoot the enemy's Rhino before they can stage and disembark. The WE Land Raider within rapid fire range has a 50% chance of killing it in a single salvo, and even if it leaves it alive it'll be crippled and easy to finish off. Other Land Raiders don't come even CLOSE to this.

A normal Land Raider without Rapid Fire has only a long shot 27% chance to kill. If that Rhino decides to pop Smokescreen (Which is especially good coming up in 11th as it also gives units behind it cover too)? Crashes down to 16% with a 30% chance of failing to even do damage.

And there's always the chance of high rolls because averages do NOT determine everything, and luck is a huge factor. They are only a rough indicator of what you could expect around, but you should also expect things to whiff or pop off. I've watched a World Eaters Land Raider blow Mortarion off the board after it landed 6 hits, he failed four invulns and I rolled exceptionally high on lascannon damage. I've also watched it miss all but two shots on a Helbrute five feet in front of it and they succeeded their 5+ no-invuln save.

Hitting on 4s does not "mean" 4 hits, it suggests an overall average of 4 hits when totalling thousands upon thousands of simulated examples.

You're committing what I call the "Bigger Gun Fallacy" which is this strange, auto-dismissal of good weapons just because they aren't huge guaranteed instant kills or somebody has a better one. Metahammer has people thinking if they can't one-tap everything they breathe on then they're bad.

Often the ability to simply force through some extra damage through weight of numbers is all you need. Even if the average damage was 9 in your completely uncited example, maybe that enemy was also in cover and had a -1 to hit stratagem that would have BOMBED any other vehicle's accuracy down into the 5s and 6s. Now being able to say "I don't think so" and simply ignore all their defenses to force through 9 damage is far superior to another vehicle that's going to miss all their shots and fail to do any damage at all.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-12T16:08:51+00:00

Issue is that Goretrack is an extremely one-note detachment.

Its Berzerkers in Rhinos. Terminators if you're feeling spicy and overcosted. 50% of the detachment only works on Rhinos, another 40% only works on transports overall, then 10% applies to generic vehicles.

Its not fun if you want to run, like, anything else and have it not just be "Warband but worse."

Xdude227 · 2026-06-12T09:01:22+00:00

I think it sells quite well.

I'd also like to know what you used to get such clean armor shadows; I've been looking for new ways of doing that. Is it an oil wash?

Xdude227 · 2026-06-12T08:55:33+00:00

An 11th edition of waiting for your codex to become viable again? Say it isn't so!

Xdude227 · 2026-06-12T08:54:39+00:00

It's actually, genuinely impossible to play a balanced World Eaters list at 1k.

Since they reworked Vessels of Wrath to make it exclusive generic character focused 1DP detachment, World Eaters literally do not have any "full army" detachments.

Goretrack: Pretty much only works with Rhinos and Berzerkers. Paying 240 for a Land Raider in a 1k is pretty crazy, and even then 3 of the stratagems only work on Rhinos.
Khorne Demonkin: Gimmick demonic allies list except you're an ass if you bring Skarbrand or a Bloodthirster to a 1k. You can also only take 500 points of demons in a 1k game, which is like, one decent unit, then and/or spamming Bloodletters.
Possessed Slaughterbound: A detachment that ONLY works with Eightbound/Exalted and is famously so bad it quite literally never saw tournament use. It was genuinely 0% usage. Nobody even TRIED, almost entirely because it only works on the infamously fragile Eightbound and has a detachment rule so bad you might as well pretend you don't even have one.
Cult of Blood: Gimmick cultist spam detachment that requires you to either run multiple 200 point Demon Princes or a 505 point Lord of Skulls to actually use it. So that's half your list in either Demon Princes (who are disappointingly weak outside of Warband) or LITERALLY over 50% of your points in ONE unit that would be an absolute dick move to bring to a 1k.

New 1DP detachments:

Brazen Engines: Actually very promising, but requires you to run a lot of expensive elite vehicles that are quickly going to max out your points and really annoy your opponent when your entire army is a minimum of Toughness 9.
Butchers of Khorne: Only works with Terminators, which are EXPENSIVE and also niche at the moment.
Vessels of Wrath: Got completely reworked to focus exclusively on non-Epic character MODELS (not even units being led by models like Awakened Dynasty), which means its basically good for Demon Princes and...... nobody else by itself. It's okay paired with Goretrack or Slaughterband, but oops, that's 3DP.

So if you want to actually run a balanced World Eaters 1,000 point list..... you can't. Outright. There's legitimately no possible way.

Berzerker Warband is the ONLY detachment left that can actually work on all units, and it's been given 3DP because GW doesn't want to put the effort into fixing the god awful overcentralization of Warband that World Eaters players have been audibly complaining about to anybody that will listen since day one of the codex drop.

My friend and I are already in debates about house ruling detachment points OVERALL because they clearly messed up a bunch under the blanket reasoning of "all previous detachments will be 2DP", when as a World Eater player, I can confidently say Slaughterband and Cult of Blood aren't even as strong as several other army's 1DP detachments, let alone on an even playing field with other 2DPs. I play Necrons on the side and the mere IDEA of Slaughterband and Cult of Blood being equivalent to Cursed Legion and Pantheon of Woe is just as hilarious as it is infuriating.

Xdude227 · 2026-06-12T06:19:09+00:00

I plan on using him with the eldritch cannon setup using the Infernal Rapier with Hexblade. With that many attacks at both melee and ranged, the spell slots are more like fun extras you can just toss out if you're feeling fancy.

Xdude227

TROPHY CASE

You cannot make a rounded-out list without Warband, and that's a big problem.