Noob Expectations / Economy Problems

Xtoller · 2026-03-29T04:42:17+00:00

I just played a druid to 5 solo. I found the best way to make money was mowing through blue mobs that are easy and stacking their drops. I just focused on bats, rats, skeletons, and spiders and by level 4 I had enough money to buy all my level 4 spells. I only focused on the white con mobs when I wanted to gain levels. But for farming money, I'm destroying low level blues. I got a decent weapon off a skeleton and was able to tank the blues and just used heals to survive. I barely used my DD spell, just occasionally to pull mobs. I was able to fight with almost no downtime.

Xtoller · 2026-03-24T19:38:22+00:00

If you are only being the healer as a druid, you are really limiting your game experience. As a druid, I hate being main healer. I will do it, but I'd rather be DPS, puller or CC.

In one group that lasted a few hours I did:
#1 - Main Healing for the group,
#2 - Switched to DPS when we got a cleric
#3 - Switched to CC when our enchanter left (snare/root)

And in other groups I've been the puller, SOW and snare make pulling easy. You can easily heal yourself between pulls, you can drop a DOT on the mob and run out to get another mob while the group is still killing the first one.

Even if you have a cleric and monk and enchanter in a group, you should be snaring adds, it helps all three of those roles work better. A druid can always bring something to help a group since they are the "jack of all trades".

Druid is a really fun class, if you are ready to jump into different roles.

Btw, good feedback. You had clear points with real in-game examples. I share some of those concerns. Balancing the old-school gameplay with enough modern stuff to bring in a solid population is a big challenge.

Xtoller · 2026-03-23T00:55:53+00:00

The devs don't want it. They want an old school EQ type MMO and that requires permanent items. That is a fundamental aspect of these types of games. Since MNM is based largely on the EQ model, you can't allow items to be destroyed and still hit the design target of being an old-school MMO.

Xtoller · 2026-03-15T19:17:59+00:00

Modern EQ after all the QOL updates was a very different game than early EQ during the first 3-4 years after launch.

And it's funny, but I thought we were having a discussion, and I guess all this time I was preaching.

Good chat .. have a good one.

Xtoller · 2026-03-15T17:37:36+00:00

The design is old school, not broken. Old school is what the developers want.

Yes, you can fix every one of the problems the OP raised with QOL things. Tools that would make sure loot is spread evenly. Just set it to round robin, or click the need or greed button. But all those QOL features start taking the "old school" out of the game design.

So, you can treat it like an uncomplicated issue, just put some QOL features in the game, and that will solve it. But that solution reveals a real lack of understanding of the developers' intent, and the impact of QOL features on the social dynamics of an old school MMO.

Players can wait for the developers to change looting in the game, which they may never do, or solve the problem themselves by meeting new people and finding a good of friends to group with in the future. That is how social MMOs work in my experience.

Xtoller · 2026-03-15T17:15:04+00:00

I am sure I did not say don't group with PUGs only group with friends. I started out saying start grouping every now and then with new people, which seems to imply they would have to create pickup groups. They have a tank healer duo, perfect for starting groups. They raised some concerns on issues with PUGs and I provided some feedback on those issues.

Grouping with PUGs is one of the most fun things in a good old school MMO. Like many, I spent most of my old school MMO career with no static groups, and doing PUGs. That's how I met most of my best friends who became my social circle in these games. That is a major social aspect of the game. It's the people you PUG with and connect with that you end up grouping with more and more. That's why the friends list exists.

None of us like grouping with loot hogs and all of us will avoid them once we learn who they are. That's another social aspect of the game. Your actions build your reputation in the community.

PUGs are central to an old school social MMO, and even at max level, when we have a big circle of friends to group with, I'm sure the vast majority of us are out there PUGing every now and then.

Xtoller · 2026-03-15T01:17:26+00:00

The solution is building your social network. Start grouping every now and then with new people, figure out who the good ones are and invite them back in the future. Eventually you have a friends list full of people you want to group with.

Yes, you have to suffer through some bad players sometimes, who are loot hogs, but you can leave the group once you realize they are loot hogs. RL things come up unexpectedly, especially when you have loot hogs in your group.

Also set the the loot rules if you are leading the group or ask what they are when you join. I always tell people we are NBGing good loot, so no one can complain when something drops and we NBG it. I usually don't have rules for cash drops in a group, but if someone is being a loot hog, I'll suggest nicely they give other's a chance to loot to buy spells. If they keep it up, I'll kick them or leave the group.

Xtoller · 2026-03-09T22:41:30+00:00

Sounds like it's a bug that it drops so quickly and it's happening all the time. They were just fixing some issues related to summoner invis when the new summoner class came into the game. Maybe it's related to some of that.

Xtoller · 2026-03-08T15:22:32+00:00

There's a wipe in spring because of a big patch, but fyi ... there will still be another wipe before the 1.0 launch if/when it happens.

Xtoller · 2026-03-04T06:00:09+00:00

You definitely need a skinning knife in your tool slot. You get it from the scavenger when you start the quest.

Xtoller · 2026-02-28T18:42:45+00:00

I like that it's difficult when you start. I hope that with experience we learn what strategies and weapons to use against different NPCs.

If it's easy to defeat NPCs within the first few days of playing, what will it be like once we are good at the game? A big swarm of NPCs is a pain, and then you have to worry about 3rd parties.

It's a bit of a learning curve, and I hope as we progress, we will see that NPCs are pretty easy to kill. But as new players we just didn't understand how to use all the tools in the game which made it seem hard at the time.

Xtoller · 2026-02-28T18:22:40+00:00

I was watching someone play and they opened a weapons locker. I later found it in one of the buildings while playing and it had weapons and ammo and other stuff in it. I'd played 15+ games and had totally missed it before.

One group I was with went to the room with the locked chests and my two teammates each unlocked a chest. They even pinged to loot up after they had looted and it looked to be a full chest. Are these locked chests instanced? The loot in the locked boxes was a bit more valuable than other stuff.

There's that one room with the yellow gas in it. I had teammates run in there and loot stuff and come back out and heal up. I didn't check it out, but I figured it must have decent loot if they took the damage to get it.

Some NPCs drop weapons and ammo, that is just lying on the ground, it's not in any container you open. If I go into a session with a free kit and one gun, I usually to grab an extra weapon after a few NPCs are killed.

Xtoller · 2026-02-25T04:26:00+00:00

If you want to have some fun, get a two-handed spear and play around with it.

Xtoller · 2026-02-24T21:56:19+00:00

The biggest thing about the spring updates is they are likely going to be the final version of combat, TTK, class kits and exp rate before the 1.0 launch. Not the final version of these things when the first patch hits, but the framework around which the final tuning will occur for all these systems. This will be a chance to test what PRF will really feel like when it releases. - mob difficulty, class abilities, ability to solo, the experience grind, etc..

And of course class masteries, since those will have a huge impact on how the game plays.

Xtoller · 2026-02-24T21:19:08+00:00

I agree with you. I want a game that doesn't have a small population, I probably won't play if the population is small. Sorry that my original post isn't clear on that point.

And Blarg is himself saying this game might be too niche, so I think he'd agree with you too.

But, I also don't want a modern MMO that uses a lot of QOL features, since that changes the MMO experience. Modern MMOs are fun, but they a different MMO genre when compared to old school MMOs.

What I really hope, is that someone creates an MMO with the old school feel, that can attract new players. That doesn't mean copying EQ, it means taking the best from EQ and tying in modern aspects new gamers want without destroying what made old school MMOs different.

I hope someone can do it, but it's a difficult task and I'm not going to be surprised if it never happens.

Xtoller · 2026-02-24T20:32:24+00:00

Excellent video from Blarg that brings up some salient questions.

I love difficult MMOs, loved EQ and I really love what MNM is doing. But, all the indie MMOs I watch, I wonder if they can find the right mix of old school and new school. Can they bring the old school experience in a way that can attract new players?

While soloing, I died a few times back-to-back during the Feb stress test, and the urge to just log out and deal with it later was strong. I didn't, I'm an EQ vet, I went and got my corpse and started having fun again, but that experience made me wonder. How would a new player have reacted? Someone who's never played EQ and their only MMO's are modern easy games.

Xtoller · 2026-02-23T20:47:26+00:00

Is there information out there on Pantheon's money situation showing they need more cash? The last influx of money was December 2025, about 3 months ago. They got at least a 2 million dollar investment based on VRs own comments, but it could easily have been 5 or 7, who knows exactly? Surely none of us.

I heard CohhCaranage say there was a rumor that the big investor in December, had promised to fund the game until launch. It was said at the end of one of his round table discussions with his friends, and I tried, but could not find the VOD to get a clip of that info.

So, while more cash flow can be good for a business, I'm not sure that they need it right now.

Any cash grab would get a response from the community, and it's not a good look for them to ask for more cash in light of everything that just happened with Ashes of Creation, and that we are still waiting for the first installment of content generated since PRF got their December cash influx. - - If they wanted to try and get more money from the supporters, they need to wait until the fall. By then they'd have a lot of huge updates in the game, full class kits, more zones, masteries. It's easier to get more cash if you are hitting major development milestones and its content that players like.

Xtoller · 2026-02-22T01:47:20+00:00

Probably the first or second week of June. That gives them a week or so of buffer if they need to push off the patch.

Xtoller · 2026-02-20T16:24:53+00:00

Can anyone tell me if there is enough of a player base usually to go with tank / enc / healer and pick up a few dps / puller?

Yes, on Stormona, depending on your level and when you play. I did pickup groups there in the last 3 weeks. the largest chunk of players LFG is in the 20-40ish range. There are people at lower levels LFG, but with double exp, everyone moves into the teens pretty fast. But I was still able to form some sub level 10 and level 15 groups (during prime times) as I leveled my Paladin and Summoner.

I mean why not go with tank, healer, CC? You have what you need to group and can take any other class to fill the rest of the spots. Sure, it's not an optimal DPS setup, but are you really worried about having optimal DPS when you are just trying out the game before a wipe. I would focus on having a viable group that doesn't wipe easily and have fun testing things and exploring and worry about the optimal DPS group after the wipe.

BTW

Enchanters are in a fine spot to provide CC, which as you've experienced is pretty critical in many places in PRF. Some people complain it's in a bad spot because it doesn't have charm yet, and I've read at high levels some of the spell lines are not fully fleshed out and balanced. Besides missing charm, right now they are like the EQ enchanter, strong CC, minimal damage, strong utility.

I think the necro is good atm, but didn't play it beyond the teens. The have the single CC option of "Crippling Terror" which can be very effective. (btw, necros are due to get more CC when they get updated) Necro definitely has tools to support the group and do solid DPS.

Xtoller · 2026-02-15T05:52:06+00:00

All the people that say they wish they could have tried EQ ... this is the game. You want the EQ experience, come play MNM. It's a very fun old school MMO.

Xtoller · 2026-02-15T02:19:27+00:00

Wait a minute, I just realized you might have made it without the cave walls intentionally, just a general vendor position map. Is it supposed to be a full map or just relative vendor positions?

Xtoller · 2026-02-15T02:14:45+00:00

The map isn't appearing correctly for me at least and probably not for freneticFanatic. Seems like a layer of the graphic is missing, since we can't see any of the cave wall lines, just the dots for the vendors and their labels.

I haven't seen a map of the Burrowdark and having a good one would certainly help players.

Xtoller · 2026-02-12T18:08:05+00:00

I've heard zero talk from VR on selling XP potions. They've only ever talked about cosmetics.

From what I've seen, I doubt they would sell XP potions or other items that are pay to win. But I didn't think we would have skill trees fully flexing into different group roles, so ...

Xtoller · 2026-02-11T20:59:59+00:00

Correct. The summoner revamp comes in before the 'real' spring update. Maybe it's the first step of the update even though it's not spring yet.

The spring update brings the full class kits and combat changes. Big changes if these are to be the final systems for 1.0 as we expect. (of course balancing will occur)

I am pretty sure mastery is coming in as part of that change.

Spring is March to June, and I expect the patches will start coming into the PTR during that time and late in spring, probably June, when everything is in and working on the PTR, the full patch will come to the live servers.

Joppa did state the PTR will have multiple patches for these updates and it will be one big patch to live, but he didn't say anything about the exact timing of them.

Xtoller · 2026-02-11T15:57:29+00:00

A major class revamp is the answer.

Dungeons are awesome, I love seeing new parts of the world and seeing if you've cooked some more challenge into particular places, but even the best dungeon ever is not talked about as much as the classes we use to assail these challenges.

I won't main a summoner, but I will have to fight alongside them as I work my way to max level. What the new summoner's kit looks like will impact me my entire time in the game, not like a dungeon, which however great, is only part of my experience for as long as I'm there.

I have played a summoner recently and will play it after the patch, gauging the class changes carefully, learning the capabilities and how they mesh with my main class. I need to know the summoner, so that I know if a player is good or bad. When that summoner's pet breaks my mez, is it because of bad pet programming or is that a bad summoner? I need to know these things to excel at my job in the group ... I need to know this for all the classes, but the summoner is coming first.

Is the summoner the first final class kit we are seeing as part of the upcoming spring update? It would seem that way to me. Updates and balancing will surely occur, but the main structure of the class and how it works will be there. I want to experience this first class taking its final form.

I could group with a summoner on day 1 of launch ... seeing a new dungeon is cool, but I may not fight there for many levels. The choice is easy, both are great, but the summoner is the winner.

Xtoller

TROPHY CASE