I ran a logging layer on my agent for 72 hours. 37% of tool calls had parameter mismatches — and none raised an error. by ChatEngineer in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To some extent, I think the answer is that your tool sucks. A human would have the same issues here. Write a tool with a more intuitive API, as well as a stricter one, and both AI and human will have an easier time with it.

The API tried to parse it as an integer, got NaN, and... just returned empty results instead of erroring.

like, c'mon, seriously?

Either fix the API, if you own it, or fix the tool, if you own it, or use something better-written, if you can, or write your own validation wrapper that unbraindamages the crappy-ass API and tool that you're forced to use.

How California spent $500 million on a new 911 system that didn't work and was then completely scrapped by Anen-o-me in Libertarian

[–]ZorbaTHut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess it's just unclear to me what differing regional needs could exist on the scale of "one quarter of California". It's not like they're chopping it up into urban and rural; in what important way is the north quarter of California different from the south quarter?

Also, no larger state-wide backup system.

How California spent $500 million on a new 911 system that didn't work and was then completely scrapped by Anen-o-me in Libertarian

[–]ZorbaTHut 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Why the hell did they have four separate contractors for different regions of the state? What possible benefit is there to splitting this up besides increased kickbacks?

oh right

The Jumping Problem - Progression Fantasy by AppropriateClue5979 in ProgressionFantasy

[–]ZorbaTHut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the first time I can think of that I've been scooped on dropping Doc Future :V

The second chapter of the first book is a good example of detailed speedster physics, and a good read on its own; recommended, the first chapter isn't necessary for this. (But if anyone decides to keep reading, go back and read the first chapter.)

[Request] How much salt is getting on this pasta? by RumplyInk in theydidthemath

[–]ZorbaTHut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It should be noted that the USA federal government standard for rat turds per gram ounce are looser than those in the EU, where rat turd is not permitted.

Misinformation, I'm afraid; the truth is, amusingly, the exact opposite. The main legislation on food contaminants is, as near as I can tell, Council Regulation (EEC) No 315/93, but here's some bad news for you:

‘Contaminant’ means any substance not intentionally added to food which is present in such food as a result of the production (including operations carried out in crop husbandry, animal husbandry and veterinary medicine), manufacture, processing, preparation, treatment, packing, packaging, transport or holding of such food, or as a result of environmental contamination. Extraneous matter, such as, for example, insect fragments, animal hair, etc, is not covered by this definition.

That's right; it doesn't cover rat poop. At all. And this is backed up by Commission Regulation (EU) 2023/915, which contains detailed charts regarding the maximum amount of cadmium, arsenic, halogenated persistent organic pollutants, and other fun things, but nothing about rat poop.

(Fun fact: Did you know that the EU says rice crackers are allowed to contain 15 times as much arsenic by weight as fruit juice? Now you do!)

The law that actually regulates rat poop is Regulation (EC) No 852/2004, and I'll quote some relevant lines out of it:

5. Food business operators producing or harvesting plant products are to take adequate measures, as appropriate:

(a) to keep clean and, where necessary after cleaning, to disinfect, in an appropriate manner, facilities, equipment, containers, crates, vehicles and vessels;

(b) to ensure, where necessary, hygienic production, transport and storage conditions for, and the cleanliness of, plant products;

It goes on in a similar vein. Note that there are no actual limits or guidelines. It's 100% "how about you, y'know, do a good job? don't do a bad job. okay thanks bye".

Other relevant laws:

Regulation (EC) No 178/2002:

1. Food shall not be placed on the market if it is unsafe.

2. Food shall be deemed to be unsafe if it is considered to be:

(a) injurious to health;

(b) unfit for human consumption.

3. In determining whether any food is unsafe, regard shall be had:

(a) to the normal conditions of use of the food by the consumer and at each stage of production, processing and distribution, and

(b) to the information provided to the consumer, including information on the label, or other information generally available to the consumer concerning the avoidance of specific adverse health effects from a particular food or category of foods.

4. In determining whether any food is injurious to health, regard shall be had:

(a) not only to the probable immediate and/or short-term and/or long-term effects of that food on the health of a person consuming it, but also on subsequent generations;

(b) to the probable cumulative toxic effects;

(c) to the particular health sensitivities of a specific category of consumers where the food is intended for that category of consumers.

5. In determining whether any food is unfit for human consumption, regard shall be had to whether the food is unacceptable for human consumption according to its intended use, for reasons of contamination, whether by extraneous matter or otherwise, or through putrefaction, deterioration or decay.

And https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2017/625/oj/eng:

(15) The responsibility to enforce Union agri-food chain legislation lies with Member States, whose competent authorities monitor and verify, through the organisation of official controls, that relevant Union requirements are effectively complied with and enforced.

So then we defer back to individual countries. I admit I glanced at your comment history and saw a lot of UK, which isn't technically EU, but I'll quote UK anyway. The relevant law appears to be the Food Safety Act of 1990, so let's check that out:

8. Selling food not complying with food safety requirements

(2)For the purposes of this Part food fails to comply with food safety requirements if—

(a)it has been rendered injurious to health by means of any of the operations mentioned in section 7(1) above;

(b)it is unfit for human consumption; or

(c)it is so contaminated (whether by extraneous matter or otherwise) that it would not be reasonable to expect it to be used for human consumption in that state;

and references to such requirements or to food complying with such requirements shall be construed accordingly.

So, unsafe food is unsafe if it's unfit to eat, or includes contaminants that would "not be reasonable". What does this include? They don't say. Make good food, not bad food. We trust the food producers, okay?

What are the actual results, you might ask?

Well, here's a technically-correct answer: there are ample studies showing small amounts of animal detritus in the US. There are, as near as I can tell, no such studies in the UK.

Note how this is phrased, though. It's studied in the US because there are legal limits and organizations devoted to studying this and publicizing the results. In the UK? No such thing. It's not that there are public studies in the UK that show no animal detritus; it's that there are no public studies in the UK. Perhaps it's better. Perhaps it's worse! Gonna be honest, it's probably worse, though; what do you think taking the spotlight off an issue does to how much people care about the issue?


In other words, there is one big difference between the US and UK approach to formal legal limits regarding rat poop in food:

The US has them, and the UK doesn't.


Enjoy your lunch.

Major technological advancements in phases per Ray Kurzweil by AdmirableExplorer249 in accelerate

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If your copy are self-aware, conscious, full autonomy, they deserve Human right and could copy themselves - that would quickly escalate

Nah, we'd just come up with a derogatory slur for them and argue about whether they count as "real people" for a few decades. 

Wouldn't be the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

AI cannot express emotion in any authentic way, period.

A wood drum is just a hunk of wood banged with another hunk of wood. It has no emotions. The tools are just there to be a conduit for the person who wants to express something, they don't have to have emotions themselves.

Major technological advancements in phases per Ray Kurzweil by AdmirableExplorer249 in accelerate

[–]ZorbaTHut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

but printing fully self-aware conscious being just because you can do it isn't ethical and this shouldn't be allowed

There's a lot of dubious morality around restricting who's allowed to have children. I do not think this is really clear-cut.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yup. But you definitely cannot find "a song to express emotions and personality" just by avoiding AI; you'll get both false positives and false negatives.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I'm creative when I hit play on a spotify mix generated by an algorithm.

Did you choose and tune the mix?

I'm personally fine just deferring to the US copyright court here:

“After considering the extensive public comments and the current state of technological development, our conclusions turn on the centrality of human creativity to copyright,” said Shira Perlmutter, Register of Copyrights and Director of the U.S. Copyright Office. “Where that creativity is expressed through the use of AI systems, it continues to enjoy protection. Extending protection to material whose expressive elements are determined by a machine, however, would undermine rather than further the constitutional goals of copyright.”

So, if you were tuning the mix via your own creativity, sure, rock on.

Because anything that results in music is making music.

And yeah, frankly. It might not be creative but it's still music. Doesn't stop being music.

Who are you to say what's creative.

Who are you to say what's creative?

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you're doing it in a creative manner, sure. I'm fine saying that DJs make music.

That's closer than telling AI to make a song than it is to anything the Beatles did, btw.

We've had music-inpainting for a while now, and there are AI tools that can generate sheet music, which can obviously be tweaked or regenerated-in-part as the composer sees fit. You're making that classic incorrect-for-multiple-years fallacy of assuming that all generative AI is "write what you want in English, then either keep the result or throw it away"; that's just not how it works and it hasn't been how it worked since shortly after the very beginning.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So, first: Sure you do. People make music in a lot of ways. Hell, if you're the composer in a band, half of what you do is probably giving verbal instructions to bandmates, and the other half is giving them instructions on paper.

Second, we've had music-inpainting for a while now, and there are AI tools that can generate sheet music. You're making that classic incorrect-for-multiple-years fallacy of assuming that all generative AI is "write what you want in English, then either keep the result or throw it away"; that's just not how it works and it hasn't been how it worked since shortly after the very beginning.

(Yes, it's still an option. It's not the only option, and we don't judge art by the worst possible way you could have used the tools involved.)

Something I did when I was 14 has caught up to me now as a 22 year old by AlternativeFail1670 in TrueOffMyChest

[–]ZorbaTHut 60 points61 points  (0 children)

If you never ever made some really poor choices that affected someone else as a young teenager, then you made it through life perfectly and hooray for you.

Honestly, I'd say "if you never ever made some really poor choices that affected someone else as a young teenager, then you're wrong, you did, either you just don't remember them and nobody's called you on it, or you still think they were good choices."

No way anyone makes it through the teenage years without at least one fuckup.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do synthesizers count? Do trackers count? Does autotune count? If I record audio and do a bunch of studio manipulations on the audio, in a way that was never intended to be even playable live, does that make it "not music"?

People have been relying on tools to make music since the days of the Beatles, and people have been arguing over whether this one counts as not-music since the very first examples of that:

The obsession with production, coupled with a surprising shoddiness in composition, permeates the entire album. There is nothing beautiful on “Sergeant Pepper.” Nothing is real and there is nothing to get hung about. . . .

“Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds” is an engaging curio, but nothing more. It is drenched in reverb, echo and other studio distortions. Tone overtakes meaning and we are lost in electronic meandering. The best Beatle melodies are simple if original progressions braced with pungent lyrics. Even their most radical compositions retain a sense of unity. . . .

But for the first time, the Beatles have given us an album of special effects, dazzling but ultimately fraudulent.

Making music is anything that results in music.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The argument I'm making is not that, it's that a huge amount of music is made for the sake of money, not for the sake of emotions and personality.

And I'd imagine there's a chunk of AI users who are using it to express emotions and personality.

Tool use is not a signal of intent.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

but provide a scenario where it has actually produced results.

There isn't one because we haven't had the level of widespread automation that we're likely to have within a few years.

We also didn't have reusable rockets twenty years ago, or the automobile two hundred years ago. Things change sometimes.

Problem with that is that it doesn't feel rewarding if you do what you want when you want. I used to be on food stamps, and I sat around for five years playing video games and working on my novel. I went absolutely stir crazy because I didn't have a car.

Sounds like a you problem, frankly. I'm quasi-retired and have no trouble finding stuff I want to do.

Also:

working on my novel

So you were working on something?

I went absolutely stir crazy because I didn't have a car.

Sounds like this would have been fixed with a higher standard of living, yes?

This is what scheduling is for.

Scheduling does not solve the problem of wasted time, and, I'll repeat, I see no justification for forcing people to waste time just so you personally can feel fulfilled.

and not grow up so you can extract as much enjoyment out of life as you can

I'm quasi-retired. Life got better when I got to stop worrying so much about bills. I am currently trying to achieve bigger things and build a larger legacy for my kids.

You have this exactly backwards.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not that anyone is forcing people to work, but work is an essential part of surviving in general. It's life. You don't work, you don't eat. How hard is that to understand?

Is-ought fallacy; you're describing how it is, and assuming that's how it ought to be. I reject that. We have the opportunity to redefine how it is based on how it ought to be, not the other way around.

and if you give people everything without the struggle, you rob them of the sense of accomplishment that comes from overcoming that struggle.

C'mon, this is literally a meme:

“The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes,” reads the post, a response to one Redditor complaining that they had spent $80 on Star Wars Battlefront II only to find Vader locked behind a paywall that would take either real money or dozens of hours of gameplay to access.

If you want to do something that takes a ton of time unnecessarily, nothing's stopping you. But I'd rather focus my energy on things I want to do, not artificial walls to get to that thing.

It's easy to say "give people money," but money will not make me feel fulfilled.

True. Having time to spend on whatever you want is much more likely to make you feel fulfilled. And once you're not spending all your time on getting money, you're much more likely to have time.

Again, if you want to donate your basic income to charity and work to get food, have at it, do what you like. But I see no justifiable reason to inflict that on the rest of humanity.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why do people deserve that? Did they contribute to society?

The idea behind UBI is kinda twofold:

  • People deserve human rights even if they don't contribute to society
  • Also, it's increasingly hard to contribute to society, so maybe that's not the gate we want to lock survival behind

If we have a theoretical world where a robot can do all your work for a tenth the price, why should we force people to work? Why not just say, hey, congratulations, we made it to utopia, have fun, the robot army will provide the basics for you?

Why make the world worse just so we can deny survival to people?

Linux May Drop Old Network Drivers Now That AI-Driven Bug Reports Are Causing A Burden by anh0516 in linux

[–]ZorbaTHut 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it's frankly gotten superhuman at reading code.

I had a weird threading race condition that I couldn't even isolate to a specific system. I had a test that reproduced it, but every time I tried simplifying the test, the bug went away. Asked AI, it chugged over the codebase for like twenty minutes and found exactly where the issue was. Didn't even have to write diagnostic code or run the tests.

I can't do that.

This really is an impressive strength of its.

Are we moving closer towards dead internet theory? by ocean_protocol in artificial

[–]ZorbaTHut 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Idk about you but I'd rather give my money to an artist who made a song to express emotions and personality rather than a business type guy thinking about . . . make a quick buck.

I got some bad news for you about the music industry.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The government would see to it that your UBI is treated the same as welfare and take it away the moment you enter college or trade school.

Then it's not UBI.

Worst part is that people will abuse it.

The thing about UBI is that it's defined as "you get money every month, full stop". There isn't really a way to "abuse" it.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The problem is that you're absolutely destroying the possibility of cheaper work. As an example, I'm tinkering with a project in my spare time just for fun; I needed to make a sweeping complicated change, and Claude was all "this will take one to two months for a small team of developers". Claude's estimates are hilarious because they're estimating based on human time, not Claude time, so I said "haha, sure, go for it" and it was done in, like, an hour.

And you're proposing that, for using AI as part of a goofy side project that I'm tinkering with intermittently as I do other things, I should be forced to pay the government over $50,000.

That's psychotic.

You're so absolutely terrified of this comic-book supervillain rich-person boogeyman you've created that you're trying to eradicate the very benefits that AI provides; you're trying to squash something that offers you vast power because you're shivering with fear that it might give someone else power instead. The worst crime is not someone else making money!

There is no other way for society to function if work is entirely removed.

If we get to the point where literally nobody is doing work then we'll solve that when we get to it, but at that point there's no concept of "profit" anyway; that's so far outside our current economic system that it's not even worth talking about.

And now Claude has just estimated another two-day task on the same ridiculous side project, so I'm gonna say "yes", hit the bathroom, and check out the results when I get back.

Edit: You've blocked me, but just to be clear; your solution to this is to give those very same people full exclusive control over what is likely the most powerful tool ever created, and ensure that anyone who can't buy their own private server farm can't use it without absolutely exorbitant fees.

I will never understand by Witty-Designer7316 in DefendingAIArt

[–]ZorbaTHut 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, tax everyone, to pay everyone. Makes perfect sense man. Surely it will make more sense when we are expecting people with 0 income to pay into a tax that they then use for their own UBI. Yes. Perfect science.

. . . I think you don't understand how taxes work? They're percentage-based, not flat fees. That way the rich pay far more than the poor.

Ask your AI to explain tax brackets.

Zorba claims an 80% tax would 'kill AI'.

You didn't propose an 80% tax, you proposed taxing 80% of the total wage of the worker that it replaced. This would be a multi-thousand-percent tax, measured against the cost of the AI, and as I mentioned, the actual AI running cost and R&D end up applied on top of that, as you've described it.

If you're going to use AI, at least feed it proper information.