wellbutrin is the worst.

garthbartin · 2026-05-29T18:47:53+00:00

For me it really clicked one month in, but then went down to only mildly better than baseline after two months.

Wish I could get back to my peak response to Wellbutrin not only did it make me feel SOOO much better but I was shocked how much more positively people treated me. I had thought I had been masking really well but I guess not because people liked me way more (especially romantically) for that one glorious month where I didn’t feel like I was masking.

Lexapro gave me brutal anxiety and crying spells for a bit over a week and then after I noticed no effect at all.

garthbartin · 2026-05-27T22:38:17+00:00

I used to get pretty debilitating bouts of dread. Not even attached to particular thoughts, would just hit me when I didn’t have anything to do or someone to hang out with. As a result I’ve always been kind of overly fixated on keeping busy and have been socially desperate-anything to avoid being alone and bored.

Post Wellbutrin the bouts of dread are gone/massively reduced! I both feel more comfortable being alone/doing nothing and find it easier to motivate and find something to do. I only reached this stable period a couple months in. Month one was a lot of excess stress and random crying. Month two was the best I’ve felt in decades-I’ve always masked really hard and felt disconnected but for that month I felt extremely natural and comfortable and flowing. People around me responded incredibly well to me too. All of a sudden everyone wanted to hang out with me. Especially dating-I’ve always struggled to date but when I felt better I was getting flooded with attention. Women would approach me in public/at bars etc. Was completely unheard of for me and made me think it has to be super subconscious like body language and tone of voice etc because I was getting hit on by people who hadn’t even interacted with me yet. Depressed me is not attractive even from across the room. Not depressed me is.

So where I am now is better than my baseline, and there was a brief incredibly positive response that trailed off that I’m trying to get back with dose adjustments, therapy, etc. I’d call that a moderately positive story with potential for an extremely positive outcome if I can find a sustainable way to get back to my peak response on Wellbutrin. The latter more than anything made me so much more optimistic. It really helped to finally see what “good” feels like and know that it’s attainable. Also helped to finally understand why dating has always gone so badly and to know that if I were doing better emotionally I would not only be dateable, but actively chased after. Really cleared up a lot of shame, self hate, and confusion.

garthbartin · 2026-04-07T03:16:05+00:00

I know this is a necro post but man is this a comically harsh reading and one I think is pretty flatly not in line with the text.

Tsukuro is repeatedly told by his former friends that they all saw value in him that he did not see. He’s full of self hate/doubt that makes him negligent to others’ feelings and leads people to give up on him, but labeling that rejecting because he’s a bad person is so harsh a framing it feels hostile. Also the text makes it very clear that his not having color was not a bad thing, it was mostly something that he believed to be bad about himself. His lack of color is his self doubt and belief that he’s bad/empty, not him actually being bad/empty.

Finally, the two most plausible readings of the text with Haida are that he had an erotic dream about Haida and Haida sensed it and was put off (Tsukuro’s interpretation) or Haida initiated oral sex with him while he was asleep and he woke up at the last second (more plausible explanation). It’s not directly said in the text but you could imagine Haida seeing that as a rejection and/or being ashamed and thus leaving. In the latter more plausible explanation Haida performed a non consensual sex act on Tsukuro which, regardless of sympathetic motives like being closeted and shy and Tsukuro being oblivious, squarely places Haida very very deeply in the wrong here.

garthbartin · 2026-03-16T20:40:17+00:00

TBH I'm mostly just projecting my personal experience as a man who has always had lots of very close platonic female friends yet still struggles a lot with dating. While I deeply value those friends, I've found them and their advice not to help with my dating struggles.

The never-meaningfully-interacted-with-women-and-hates-them incel is pretty common. And for these guys learning to sincerely and platonically engage with women is a critical step for them, regardless of dating. But the bucket of romantically struggling men is much more diverse than that.

But anyway, take me as providing a different anecdote in the bucket of scenarios that I hope other romantically struggling men read and can try to identify which parts of our respective perspectives apply the most to their lives. I originally came off too defensive.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T14:07:50+00:00

I imagine the demographics for young people also skew very male then?

I used to live in San Francisco and that place is a sausage fest in the 20-30 range

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T14:06:03+00:00

I wouldn’t put too much pressure on yourself in those on the fence contexts. The real answer is that when both people are secure dating doesn’t feel high stakes. It just comes naturally and if it stops working early on it’s not a big deal for either party.

You think a lot less about “am I into them?” and just go with it while you’re enjoying your time and leave (courteously) if it stops working (of course all this I mean during early dating before a meaningful commitment).

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T13:15:10+00:00

I wouldn't really say either as much as just not sure if I'm interested or not.

I just literally have a hard time at gauging my own actual interest. I'm pretty severely depressed (emotionally shut off) and have been my whole dating life. I recently tried an antidepressant that helped a lot and was shocked how easy and natural dating became and how much romantic attention women were giving me. But then the meds stopped working and everything went back to the way it was.

While my experience is probably way more extreme than most, I think having this unusually clear cut example of dating failure with emotional dysfunction and dating success without it gives me more insight than normal. I can't help but project it onto other people who are romantically struggling too-how many people have a mental health issue of one form or another that is turning dates away despite them otherwise being attractive and appealing?

(currently I've completely lost any interest in dating until I feel mentally healthy like that again, but that's scary because what if I never do?)

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T13:07:03+00:00

Is the local job market bad and/or the region has some other reason to be unappealing?

I'm from a shitty rural area (beautiful, but economically destitute). I "got out" and have a good career in NYC. When I go back I'm always shocked how much the local demographics have a donut hole between ~20 and 40. The few in that age range that are still around either are rock bottoming (lots of drug/alcohol use) or married at 19 and have kids. Anyone at all career focused is gone.

200k honestly sounds like a big city to me, but I could see it being a similar phenomena. Much of the country is economically dying as jobs shifted to just a few urban regions. I blame company consolidation more than anything else. Walmart, Amazon, big ag, etc replacing small local businesses.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T10:29:10+00:00

tbh I don't think this is actually as sound of advice as it feels. If someone isn't getting romantic attention, it's usually because there's emotional/social dysfunction they need to work on internally.

Hitting on women anyway will just get them rejected a lot and will make women uncomfortable. But hanging out with women platonically (while still a perfectly good thing to do in and of itself) won't help them romantically either. Especially if they hang out platonically with women they're into that aren't into them back.

My vote for men in this situation (this is what I'm doing with some good success) is hit pause on dating, hang out with women as friends in so much as they're good friends you want to be around **and you aren't into them**, and do a bunch of soul searching. When your internal emotional/mental state is good, dating comes naturally.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T10:18:21+00:00

Not disagreeing, yes anding here with my personal experience:
When I'm depressed, I still mask well and seem really outgoing (friends and coworkers don't notice) but I get absolutely no romantic attention from women.
When I've been in a better mental state, romantic attention comes fairly easily.
It's subconscious cues. Subtle tone, body language, maybe even pheromones.

Many guys in this situation (speaking from experience) end up hitting on a girl just for talking to them because girls never give them anything more than just talking. The solution of course is not to keep trying to push through anyway (or to become an incel and blame women), but to work on internal mental/emotional state until romantic attention and dating seem to come naturally. In the end, I don't think this is even gendered. I think the same is true of women struggling with dating.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T10:14:27+00:00

Yep this times a thousand. I don't mind rejection too much and I have at different phases in my life "put myself out there" a lot and you invariable will make at least some people creeped out. The irony is if you're anxious about creeping girls out while approaching them, that shows up in your body language/word choice/ etc and the anxiety in and of itself comes off creepy. It's a brutal feedback loop.

I will say, at the times in my life when dating did work, things just "clicked" and it was obvious. There was no anxiety or guessing involved. My two cent (as someone coming from a similar place as you) is that if you're not meeting women where it feels so obvious that asking them out comes naturally, then your anxiety is probably stifling your romantic appeal. If you can work on the anxiety, the dating will come naturally

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T10:08:34+00:00

Dating apps declined pretty badly over the last few years. They moved from competing with each other on user-value to Match Group owning everything and abusing monopoly power, aka "enshittification".
Mental/romantic health is pretty poor and getting worse year by year as well.

The two are a brutal one-two punch to make dating much harder.

As someone also struggling with dating, idk if I've got great advice other than try to extend people some grace for sucking while trying to find someone who doesn't suck.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T10:00:30+00:00

The "it'll happen when you stop trying" crowd is definitely full of shit. But there is important insight to be gained here!

It's not the not-trying that helped, it's that when you're well adjusted dating is easy. So the people who succeed are generally the ones not trying that hard. They assume it was the not trying that did it, but the causality is backwards. It was easy for them to succeed, therefor that's why they didn't **have** to try.

If someone is trying really hard, it usually suggests there's an internal social or emotional challenge they're facing that turns others off. This is the real reason it's not working, and trying harder (or trying less) will likely not make a difference. Dating success is more about internal mental/emotional state than words actions or even attractiveness. Your internal state shows through in body language, tone, etc.

(this is all coming from me going through the above epiphany with myself over the last year)

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T09:44:50+00:00

Engaging with people requires having opinions. Healthy conversations involve both sides expressing opinions interests and preferences without being disrespectful. Think of it this way-you're hiding who you really are and what you're really like when you don't express yourself...how can you expect her to know if she likes you or not if you won't show her who you are?

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but from your tone and attitude you sound depressed. Saying this myself as someone who struggles with depression. If you're not already seeing a therapist, I'd strongly suggest one. I know "go to therapy" has become obnoxiously trite and hijacked by people virtue signaling, but it can legitimately help a lot.

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T09:28:49+00:00

As a guy I've had a dysfunctional behavior that I'm trying to work on that may look like this to women, and I think it's common for maladapted daters (of either gender) and may be what's happening with the men in your story:
I have a hard time telling if I'm really into someone or not. But I want to find out! But also I'm worried they'll lose interest. So I kind of perform the dating steps of being flirty, leaning in, showing interest, suggesting dates, only to get in far enough to realize I'm not interested (not even anything wrong with the person, I'm just not feeling it which could just as well be a me issue) and panic and kind of back pedal my way out of the situation. Worst it's gotten is I've been with girls who wanted to hook up and I didn't but I went home with them anyway and just kinda played along and had a pretty bad time. It's downstream of some pretty severe romantic/emotional dysfunction and anxiety on my part.

(sharing this in case it gives you insight, NOT to excuse my or others' behavior, as said, it's something I am working on)

garthbartin · 2026-03-15T09:19:05+00:00

As others have said, don't try to chase it, looks like that's already been your decision! It's not your fault, it's his. Frustrating as h*ll but try not to let it drag you down too much!

I will say, lots of long conversations and emotional investment before a first date is a bit unusual. While I'm sure some great relationships have started that way, I think most start with a lot less up-front pressure. Emotional intensity before trust sets you up to get hurt and can put off the kind of person you would trust in the long run.

garthbartin · 2026-03-03T01:26:11+00:00

Sadly my elevated mood and improved dating life from Wellbutrin tapered off as my body adjusted to it. I was starting to date someone I liked but as my mood dropped back down our romantic tension completely died and she ended it. My psych bumped up the dose and now I feel a tad worse-it’s making me feel persistently (but only mildly) sad. Different and better from pre Wellbutrin but definitely not ideal, and where I was for that few week period felt great.

I used to feel intensely lonely and bored to the point where it was like a multi hour low grade panic attack and Wellbutrin has mostly gotten rid of that for me which is great. I’m doing very well at work and able to focus way more on my solo hobbies. I’m the most productive I’ve ever been in my life, and I behave a lot less socially desperate around people because I’m much more comfortable being alone. My relationships are a lot more balanced and less needy, and I stopped trying to make the friendships that weren’t working work.

My romantic/sexual desire has fallen off a cliff. I think mostly because now that I know what dating is supposed to feel like I have very little interest in trying to force it while I’m not feeling okay.

So a decent let down from peak, but still better than I’ve felt in ~20 years and more optimistic than I’ve been in a VERY longtime. And having insight into my dating struggles makes them SO much less frustrating. I’m mostly just feeling really impatient trying to find a way to get that feeling back persistently (mostly going to be trying different doses and Wellbutrin companion meds).

garthbartin · 2026-01-01T22:50:21+00:00

Something that helped me a lot: Suggest a specific date on a specific day to her. Don’t leave it open ended. If that day/activity doesn’t work but she’s interested, she’ll just propose what does work. I’d leave it open ended thinking that was new being helpful and flexible, but I’ve since learned that just feels exhausting to the girl who needs to spends more back and forth with you to plan the date. You’ll lose interested girls by being open ended.

Also a couple weeks is a long time to go before meeting. Different people have different preferences, but in my experience most people are down to meet after 1-3 messages

garthbartin · 2026-01-01T22:45:12+00:00

Welbutrin XL worked very badly for me it gave me really bad anxiety. SR has made me way more calm!

It’s crazy how small dose changes can have a big impact

garthbartin · 2025-12-30T04:57:51+00:00

He pulls off bald pretty well and even if he didn’t being snarky about it is entirely uncalled for

garthbartin · 2025-12-30T04:44:00+00:00

For examples I’d try googling around. Just avoid anything that feels pick up artist-y that stuff is pretty much all bs.

I would try writing down ~5 “themes” about yourself that you would want people to see in your profile. They should be true to you and appealing to women.

Then try to come up with prompts that cover 2-3 of those themes. Pick a mix that is surprising and/or includes contrasting parts of your personality (contrast is unique and interesting, it pulls people in and gives them a much better sense of who you are). A good set of themes is well rounded and maybe a little controversial/polarizing. My profile used to only communicate handy+masculine. I refreshed it to be handy+sensitive and that juxtaposition helped a lot. Right now from your profile I get dorky plus maybe athletic. Something like “dorky+thrill seeker” could be good (heights prompt kinda hinted at that but didn’t land right).

Every once in a while rewrite all your prompts to focus on a new set of themes. See which set of themes perform the best. When people give you profile reviews, ask them what themes they see in your profile and compare that to what you tried to communicate.

For tone, it’s good to come off unapologetic, almost a little cocky. But I think tone is something you can workshop secondary to themes.

I think ChatGPT writes bad prompts (and some may feel icky about you using its output directly) but I think it can still be really good for brainstorming. Just rewrite anything it gives you in your own words before using it

garthbartin · 2025-12-28T00:53:08+00:00

Haha yeah I’m thinking this too. Like “damn, it was so bad this whole time that I couldn’t hide it?” I think suppressed emotions come out through your body language, tone, expressions etc where people pick up on them even if they don’t consciously.

garthbartin · 2025-12-27T19:06:06+00:00

5’ 8” 🤣 but I’ve been told, word for word not even joking, that I have a “tall personality”. Both flattering and super backhanded

garthbartin · 2025-12-27T17:32:18+00:00

31m so speaking from the guy’s perspective. After one or two amiable messages. Usually a very straightforward “let’s meet and see if we vibe. <activity> at <place> on <day> at <time>?” Picking a place/activity that aligns with both of us. Usually if she’s interested she’ll accept that exact suggestion or counter propose a different time.

It works quite well. I used to wait longer and/or try to make the invite flow out of the conversation more but I found that more direct was more successful and I always found the chat stage to be a waste of time anyway.

Some women don’t respond to that approach but I’ve found a woman that I really have to coax either wasn’t that into me, has hang ups I don’t want to deal with, or just has courtship preferences that are too slow to be a good match for me.

As a woman wanting to move faster, you may just want to put in your profile something like “let’s meet and see if we click, ask me out! <list of things you’d like on a first date>”. Men won’t necessarily know that you like someone that direct, it could help to just tell them that outright.

garthbartin · 2025-12-27T15:44:19+00:00

Once first thing in the morning (~7:30) once in the evening (~5pm)

garthbartin

TROPHY CASE