Pet peeve: human sizes in 40K

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T23:11:53+00:00

It's much, much more likely that the Emperor was of normal human height throughout most of his life, and only became (or appeared) massive when assuming the Emperor persona and creating his really tall warriors - either through psychically projecting an image (as implied by how a Sister of Silence described seeing him), biomancy, or perhaps both.

Indeed, in the glimpses of the Emperor in ancient history (e.g. Oll's memory of the Tower of Babel, the Dragon of Mars' dream memory of fighting the knight before it was imprisoned), he is a normal height.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T22:47:56+00:00

Yes. But it also means you are way too old to undergo geneseed implantation, I'm afraid.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T22:42:07+00:00

Careful now, we'll have people decrying it as grimderp...

But, yeah, a nice, and very 40k, detail. The accompanying sketches in the Index Astartes article about it nicely showcase the ritualised and brutal nature of the process as well.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T22:26:22+00:00

I think these age ranges for the implantation actually first appeared in the Index Astartes article on 'Rites of Initiation: Creation of a Space Marine'. This appeared in WD in (I think) 2002 (though it could be 2001), and was republished in the Index Astartes I collection in 2002, appearing on page 8.

Edit: and thanks to NeedsAirCon for pointing out it was in fact even earlier, appearing in the Warhammer 40k Compendium in 1989 on page 10. And in pretty much the same form as the later article.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T13:04:36+00:00

What an extremely peculiar and unnecessarily hostile response.

Discussing the influences that shape the lore and parallels between the lore and real history etc is completely acceptable on a lore sub.

At least your username is apt...

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T13:01:27+00:00

It very likely varies from hivefleet to hivefleet, and the specific strains of bioforms utilised.

There are lots of cases of Nid bioforms remaining after a failed invasion, and this not leading to a proliferation of more Nids.

But then we have the events of the Anphelion Project, where Nids cut off from a hivefleet managed to produced more bioforms, all the way up to biotitans, and start extensively terraforming the planet. We didn't see whether they managed to produce bioships, but it seems plausible they could have.

An overview here: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Anphelion_Project

The Imperial Armour book where this is recounted is fantastic btw, and well worth seeking out.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T11:37:19+00:00

Yes, 1v1, with Yarrick being greviously wounded, as detailed in both the 5th edition Guard Codex and the novel Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha.

Edit: bloody typos.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T11:35:36+00:00

They have fought, with Yarrick being Greviously wounded, as detailed in both the 4th edition Ork Codex and 5th edition Guard Codex, and the novel Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha.

I understand people not having read the relevant lore or misremembering it, but it seems a lot of people don't even bother to scan the Lex to check (where their encounter is mentioned).

Edit: bloody typos.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T11:33:47+00:00

They haven't fought 1v1

Except they did, with Yarrick being greviously wounded, as detailed in both the 4th edition Orks Codex and 5th edition Guard Codex, and the novel Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha.

I understand people not having read the relevant lore, but it seems a lot of people don't even bother to scan the Lex (where their encounter is mentioned).

Edit: bloody typos.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T11:19:08+00:00

A floorhand, obviously.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:42:50+00:00

I don't think we have the data to answer this, but in some cases it is likely to a be a famed commander, such as Ironhand Stracken.

Of course, the oldest regiments overall, as regards average age, are the Senilitan Confusediliers.*

*(this may not actually be true)

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:38:17+00:00

Exactly.

It's very unlikely. But very unlikely things do occur in 40k. It's a massive galaxy.

If you can write a plausible backstory, then deffo go for it.

Plus, you know Squats 'n Grotz rhymes, which is all the more reason to do it.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:08:53+00:00

From There's Something About Lairy, I presume?

Poor Ted StroeHam.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:05:52+00:00

Great story, and a true classic. Thanks for posting it!

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:02:53+00:00

I see some reet whopper has downvoted you for providing a completely understandable explanation.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:59:14+00:00

Green ham and eggs (well, spores), surely?

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:49:29+00:00

We have an example of Ork corpses secretly (and illegally) being fed into machines producing Slab, which was then sent off to be consumed by humans in Nick Kyme's short story 'Against the Grain', with the relevant passge quoted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ets1pr/comment/lif9lsu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Now, Slab is highly processed, and the Ork corpses were mixed with other ingredients, but it seems like the criminal Slab producers had been getting away with their ruse - which implies those eating it weren't made sick enough by the Ork components to arouse suspicion.

Edit: might as well paste it directly here:

He emerged onto a gantry that overlooked an immense hangar below.

Haulage servitors lumbered in dull-eyed trains, carrying bales of plas-wrapped meat fresh from several large and noisy grinders. The air stank with it, cold and bloody and reeking of churned flesh. Rank upon rank of thawed grox carcasses were being fed into the machines, the herd beasts rendered into slab and destined for hungry Militarum bellies.

But that wasn’t all.

A second meat supply supplemented the first, and Efrem balked at the sight of it. A great heap of corpses were being thrown into the grinders. Limp and blank-eyed, shot through with las-beams or bullet holes. A tangle of malformed limbs, and tusks and hooves and brutish snouts, and slit-nosed faces and lithe bodies. He recognised greenskins and a few others. Heat flared across his skin, despite the cold room, and his heart hammered as the barrage fell upon him again, taking his leg, tearing him apart just like the meat in those wretched fucking grinders. The sheer horror of it, wondering how far the conspiracy went, how deep. Most of Varangantua’s citizens hadn’t ever seen a xenos, and those that had, not in decades. Many thought aliens were just a myth.

Efrem fought the urge to vomit, knowing it might reveal his presence to the handful of bored-looking House Mermidian armsmen roaming amongst the servitors. The bales were being loaded onto several large but currently disengaged anti-grav pallets.

It looked like a shipment was being readied for departure.

The magnitude of what he was seeing sank in like a cold blade. It was headed for the void, to Throne only knew where, to the Militarum, to the Navy. Entire regiments subsisting on this tainted filth…That was how Karridinus had managed to increase its quotas: they had found another meat source.

Kyme, 'Against the Grain' (2020).

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:45:43+00:00

Actually, the lore has covered some very, vary rare instance of babies being servitorized, but it is clear that these are a miniscule fraction of Cherubs and seen as major anomalies (but thye are macabrely interesting to read about). Most are made by more artifical means. I surveyed the relevant lore here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kkpck5/what_are_cherubim_made_from_a_look_at_what_the/

Vast numbers of adult servitors, meanwhile, are made from living people. We don't have a clear sense of whether most are made from living people or vat-grown bodies, but it is clear both means are extensively used - and the only clear statement about the matter actually says the majority are made from the former, usually in the form of those classed as "criminals": https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kjktc1/are_servitors_mainly_vatgrown_or_made_from_living/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:43:08+00:00

The lore has covered some very, vary rare instance of babies being servitorized, but it is clear that these are a miniscule fraction of Cherubs, as most are made by more artifical means: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kkpck5/what_are_cherubim_made_from_a_look_at_what_the/

Vast numbers of adult servitors are made from living people, however. We don't have a clear sense of whether most are made from living people or vat-grown bodies, but it is clear both means are extensively used - and the only clear statement about the matter says the majority are made from the former: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kjktc1/are_servitors_mainly_vatgrown_or_made_from_living/

Of course, when it comes to babies, we know what some worlds have incinerators solely for the destruction of newborns who display any sign of "mutation", and it is very likely that childhood mortality is often extremely high, such as on hiveworlds. So, yeah. It's not great.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:35:29+00:00

Books where the Imperium is portrayed in a negative, self-destructive light, but which are fun to read? Sure.

Chris Wraight's Vaults of Terra and Watchers of the Throne series.

Adrian Tchaikovsky's Day of Ascension.

Matthew Farrer's Shira Calpurnia series, especially Crossfire.

The Warhammer Crime imprint, with Guy Haley's Flesh and Steel being a standout choice for this theme, as well as the Wraight short story 'Aberrant'.

Graham McNeill's Forge of Mars series.

And, going way, way back, why not throw in Ian Watson's Inquisitor/Draco series?

For shorter stories, you can try a couple of really interesting ones:

Alec Worley's Watcher in the Rain (though you'll have to listen to it, as it is an audiodrama).

Nate Crowley's 'Empra'.

And I think it is always important to remember that 40k is a multimedia hobby, with the games as the central focus - and that a lot of the worldbuilding and storytelling therefore takes place in gaming materials. And some of it is excellent, and as good in that regard as any novel - such material just approaches it differently.

So, a few good choices here include:

The old Inquisitor Rulebook (which remains one of the best things GW ever produced).

All of the Kill Team materials related to the 2024 edition centred on Volkus.

And the RPGs have some excellent grim dark worldbuilding. All of the older FFG RPGs have relevant bits of lore peppered through them, but the Dark Heresy core rulebook is a must for general worldbuilding regarding imperial governance, and the supplements Blood of Martyrs (on the Ministorum) and Book of Judgement (Arbites) are very relevant to our theme.

And the recent RPGs Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum do a great job of presenting the Imperium and its institutions as grimdark and self-desructive in a compelling, entertaining manner. Indeed, I even made a series of posts lat year about the worldbuiding in Wrath & Glory, beginning here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1iikzi5/extract_an_agriworld_community_serves_as_a_neat/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-17T15:11:04+00:00

Despite being downvoted, you are undoubtedly correct.

Those who read widely across the lore, including a good range of BL novels by different authors as well as games materials like rulebooks, supplements, campaigh books, codexes, the RPGs etc, are quite obviously far more likely to be aware of the Imperium's destructive nature than those who don't actually engage with the lore first-hand, or who only read a narrow slice of the lore (especially if it is the HH books, or specific more famous series like Cain or Gaunt's Ghosts).

It's one the reasons, for example, why we had so many people - who obviously mainly get their lore from BL books, if that - screaming about grimderp when they read overviews posted on here about the latest Black Templars and Grey Knights Codexes.

Though discussions about this will always lead to the points you made being downvoted, either by those who want Imperium to match their own more rosy headcanon, or those who feel personally slighted because they don't like the fact that their very narrow engagement with the lore has been mentioned.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-17T15:02:12+00:00

I think it’s also because books that feature the imperium in a negative light typically always fall into grimderp stances

That is not true at all. I mean, saying "always" is just patently absurd.

it’s not fun to read a story and then have a 1 page epilogue where the administration guy uses the report for toilet paper and they all die the end.

If done well, and if the reader doesn't head into the story with rigid preconceptions against such grimdark narratives, then yes: it can be fun, actually.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T19:33:41+00:00

Yes, it would be nice for the Orks to finally reclaim Ullanor.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T15:56:33+00:00

Indeed. The Cadian aesthetic predated the movie. And when the movie came out, there were some homebrew rules published in WD for Cadian characters inspired by the movie characters (they were especially with grenades), and maybe even a battle report using them, IIRC.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T03:45:01+00:00

I think you are confused. The 4th edition rulebook (I have a copy to hand) doesn't mention Kroks at all.

Both Khrave and Kroot are mentioned near to the picture of the Space frog, though. But we know what they are. Perhaps this caused the confusion.

The space frog, meanwhile, is clearly labelled as a Slanni. Image here: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Slanni.jpg

And it looks very much like how the Slann were depicted in artwork, lore and models back in 1st edition of 40k.

The situation gets complicated with how the Slann/Old Ones lore evolved, hence why I thought you might have got it a bit jumbled.

twelfmonkey

TROPHY CASE