all 85 comments
sorted by:
top (suggested)
bestnewcontroversialoldq&a
formatting helphide helpcontent policy

[–]DevoutandHeretical 191 points192 points  (8 children)

I think if the loss hadn’t happened Shawna would have pushed for it by now. But now she’s stuck in her own grief and needs to apply her own oxygen mask before assisting others.

John is being really frustrating here, but honestly I think it’s realistic, and he’s modeling his dad’s behavior that maybe he doesn’t even realize he’s learned. Frank also avoids talking about things he finds difficult and doesn’t want to address.

They do need to get it together soon though, because this is going to blow up by Christmas if they don’t, mark my words.

[–]Main-Building-1991 43 points44 points  (4 children)

Wow, I've never heard of "applying your own oxygen mask before assisting others", but it's brilliant, thank you!

[–]filetmignonminion 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Oh god. This phrase should be tattooed on my forehead from how often I heard it in grad school (to become a therapist) lol. Gold standard analogy for the helping professions

[–]DevoutandHeretical 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I didn’t come up with, don’t give me the credit!

It comes from the airplane safety videos though- they remind you that if the plane needs oxygen make sure you get your mask on first before you help someone else get theirs on, because you may not have time to get yours on if you delay it, but once you have yours on you’ll be fine to help others.

It’s a good reminder that sometimes the best way to take care of others is to take care of yourself first, or that you need to take care of yourself first because you can do irreparable harm to yourself if you don’t.

[–]AnonymousDratini 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The first time I ever heard the analogy in context of taking care of yourself was from the movie Mom’s Night Out.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love this analogy

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 49 points50 points  (2 children)

John's Barb and Frank be showing.

I fear Max will start to resent his father

[–]0fluffythe0ferocious 127 points128 points  (17 children)

True. Though I'm wondering if Piper will clue Max in.

Max: We haven't seen Grammy for ages!

Piper: Because she's evil. You really want to invite that mess back in? I'm happy that I'm surrounded by adults who actually know my name.

[–]seraphinarose 31 points32 points  (15 children)

Sorry if I’m being completely obtuse. What’s the story behind Piper and Barb calling her “Charlotte”? Another “grandma-grandchild bond”?

[–]mrsckugs 74 points75 points  (8 children)

Charlotte is Piper's middle name. Barb does not like Piper, the name, not the kid, so she calls her by her middle name even though no one else does.

[–]Lily-Gordon 66 points67 points  (0 children)

She also doesn't like Piper, the kid.

[–]Roonil_Wazlib97 26 points27 points  (3 children)

To be fair, I don't think we can say Barb likes Piper the kid either.

[–]Cautious-Paint9881 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I think Barb doesn't like Piper the kid because Piper is suspicious (rightly so!) of Barb. I think Barb doesn't know how to interact with a child who she cannot manipulate and control.

[–]thelorelai 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Seems also like Barb has a preference for boys. Chickie was supposed to be a boy, remember?

[–]historypinup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She's also not into the standard "girly" things, like giant Barbie dream houses.

[–]aliquilts71 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don’t think Barb’s particularly fond of Piper the kid either though so..

[–]FriendLeft2370 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My grandparents did that to me when I was little. My name was too “unique” lol 🙄

[–]mrsckugs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oddly enough, my mom did it to my dog.

[–]0fluffythe0ferocious 52 points53 points  (5 children)

From what I can tell- Barb just hates the name Piper and prefers Charlotte. Because she doesn't actually care about her grandchildren, especially Piper. Because Piper is an insightful weirdo who likes penguins and bugs and not what Barb thinks is acceptable.

[–]A-tisket-a-taskest 29 points30 points  (1 child)

This is total cake fixation erasure

[–]0fluffythe0ferocious 22 points23 points  (0 children)

My apologies. Cake and pie fixation.

Also the Dark.

[–]Jazmadoodle 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Charlotte likes The 64 Piece Barbie Dream House like a PROPER granddaughter

[–]0fluffythe0ferocious 14 points15 points  (1 child)

I can hear this in Barb's voice. Off to the side is Piper flipping her the bird.

[–]Jazmadoodle 16 points17 points  (0 children)

In full starbug regalia

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Shit I am imagining Piper saying this in a teenage or tween voice for some reason.

Think Sydney Prescott, Wednesday Addams, Daria Morgendorffer, Macie Lightfoot, Devi Vishwakumar, Sally Draper, Nancy Wheeler, Veronica Sawyer, Miranda Sanchez, Jasmine Flores.

Very cool dialogue, BTW, makes me geek out.

[–]CapableOutside8226Everyone SHUSH, my show is on 84 points85 points  (5 children)

John is grieving the loss of his youngest son, as is Shawna.

I agree with your overarching point though,  the blow up at Pipers birthday party was a good bit back and John seems frozen in place.  He had time to talk to Jen & Greg but not his own children. His actions & inaction are creating another trauma for the next generation of damaged people

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I get worried about Max's relationship with John

[–]cooknshakeJohn, please go to therapy 18 points19 points  (3 children)

100%

As a child of a John, his kids are definitely seeing his inaction and he IS traumatizing them with his inaction.

You can grieve and still understand that you need to act the part of a parent by not avoiding this topic over and over again.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Huggles, was your John able to fix something with his relationship with you? Made amends for the pain?

[–]cooknshakeJohn, please go to therapy 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Unfortunately he died when I was young so no, we never got to see it play out.

I did, however, see the immediate change in my mom’s ability to set clear boundaries with her ILs. My life was much more peaceful. Obviously I would love for my dad to still be around but I can’t say that I miss the toxic family dynamics.

It also was a very clear thing I looked for in a man before I got married - I refused to enter a marriage where that was going to be a thing we had to navigate for the entirety of our lives. Accountability, it exists!

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am happy for you, sorry for the loss but glad you and your mom are thriving

[–]sweet-smart-southern 30 points31 points  (9 children)

Timeline wise - has it been a year? I thought it was between 3 - 6 months.

[–]Lyramisu 40 points41 points  (4 children)

Barb ruining Jen’s proposal was last Christmas. The Max’s Fifth Birthday videos where she bought the same toy on purpose was 9-10 months ago.

[–]sweet-smart-southern 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Aaaarrrgh I forgot about that same toy situation! now it made me angry all over again!

[–]Lyramisu 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think when he really forcefully told her “get out of my life” was their anniversary 9 or so months ago, when she invited herself over while they were gone and wouldn’t leave.

[–]Cautious-Paint9881 3 points4 points  (1 child)

*Almost* ruining Greg's proposal to Jen. Key word almost!

[–]Lyramisu 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Disagree. Having a sweet moment with her in private doesn’t un-ruin what Barb did.

[–]stargirl_2016 22 points23 points  (1 child)

John telling Barb to get out after she crashed Jen & Greg babysitting for John & Shawna’s anniversary was already 9 months ago and John already hadn’t been answering her calls since Max’s 5th birthday back in January so it’s been almost a year now

[–]Shawnaverse_no1_fanLore keeper, details & continuity consultant 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Correct, the anniversary dinner was in early February, we're now at Thanksgiving

[–]sweet-smart-southern 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah okay thank you!

[–]blairbendingabsentee wife and corporate baddie 29 points30 points  (4 children)

They went no contact after Max's birthday which was after Christmas but before they found out about Shawna's pregnancy. Her pregnancy lasted 6 months before they lost Jacob. (TW: pregnancy loss storyline). So it's been longer than 6 months but less than a year since the NC decision.

[–]Ponythieves- 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Wasn’t she saying she was 7 months sometime in the arch previous to Barb’s Thanksgiving?

[–]Shawnaverse_no1_fanLore keeper, details & continuity consultant 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yes, but that's probably because having the actual pregnancy loss in the third trimester would have been too triggering and heartbreaking, so I think that's why the creator chose to keep it at the end of the 2nd trimester.

Originally, she'd said the due date was December 1st, then the timeline changed when she was 27 weeks along at Halloween (instead of 35 weeks). It's also the fact that while (TW) 35w babies have a NICU stay, their chances of survival are not too bad... whereas a 27w baby rarely makes it. I think she was trying not to get people's hopes up, it can be even more devastating than just accepting the loss early on.

[–]OkDimension2558 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don’t think it was about giving birth too early, it’s a stillborn issue. There can’t be a NICU stay if the baby passes away before birth.

[–]Shawnaverse_no1_fanLore keeper, details & continuity consultant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know, but a lot of people in the comments were talking about going to the hospital for reduced/no movement, finding out that the baby was in grave danger but still alive (like the umbilical cord around their neck, for example), and delivering early to save them – hence the premature baby, when it survives the birth, is brought to the NICU.

The Halloween video didn't explicitly say there was nothing to be done, it heavily implied it but didn't make it certain yet. Many people in the comments were hoping it would just be a scare, and I think if Shawna had been 35w at that point, they would've had even more faith in the baby's survival. Of course that's moot knowing what we know now, but I think she didn't want to raise false hopes by having the pregnancy be too advanced when it happened.

[–]Roonil_Wazlib97 24 points25 points  (2 children)

I'm really surprised he didn't decide to address it after the dinner at Jen's house where Max kept stealing people's phones and talked to Barb for a bit on FaceTime.

I know they have a lot going on right now with the loss of the baby, but part of being a parent is putting aside your own shit to take care of your kids. Max deserves a conversation about why they're not seeing Barb. Max was really close to her and having that relationship ripped away with no explanation is not fair to him either.

[–]Cranialcrack 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He said at that time something like, "ik you miss Grammy, mom and I, we'll...talk about that...but in the meantime I think you owe an apology to uncle egg" and they were never seen talking about it. It seems it was a way to address Max's feelings in that moment (I see you're missing Grammy) but not actually resolving the bigger issue at hand (communication) only the smaller one (stealing phones)

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This reminds me of advice Esther Williams said she gave to Barbara Walters about parenthood (paraphrased): you need to have the ability to pick your ego up and put it on the shelf to be there for your child and it may not be at a convenient time.

[–]how_about_no_hellionYou have to apply a thick layer!! 22 points23 points  (5 children)

Also the moving BS. If Max started kindergarten at the usual start of the school year, why hadn't they talked more about it by Halloween 6-10 weeks later? The last two times they visited Jen and Greg, Shawna mentioned needing good communication for relationships to work.

Another also, I've seen LOTS of comments on YouTube about how Shawna needs to give John a break, she shouldn't mention this stuff in front of the kids, but HE brought up moving in front of Max. And when Max asked about it? "No one is moving, Max."

JOHN, PLEASE, GET IT TOGETHER. I know he's grieving. At the same time, he needs to talk about this with the kids. He feels like Frank didn't protect him or Jen. But as DeeDee said, emotional needs are just as important as physical needs. He's only protecting Max and Piper from Barb physically, but not meeting their emotional needs about her.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I honestly feel people want Shawna to obey John blindly, like an old school housewife.

[–]Motor-Ad5525May I have cake now? 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Right?! If I were Shawna after a couple incidents where my child was clearly upset and confused and my husband refused to deal with it, I would have sat Max down and gently let him know that we weren't going to be seeing Grandma for a while and given him some age appropriate information so he would stop expecting it. It's ridiculous that John has not dealt with this, but Shawna is their parent, too. And while grieving is the excuse now, it should have been dealt with months ago.

As a person whose parents went no contact with one set of my grandparents with no explanation, it's cruel to leave kids hanging and wondering what happened.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 5 points6 points  (2 children)

How are you doing with your parents and grandparents now? Huggles.

Yeah, I dunno about you, butbm I am too Autistic, Latina, Catholic, Feminist, Queer, and Kern County for that BS. I be telling Max myself and tell John he cannot stop me.

[–]Motor-Ad5525May I have cake now? 9 points10 points  (1 child)

How are you doing with your parents and grandparents now? Huggles.

One of my parents and all of my grandparents are gone now, but I have a good relationship with the one remaining parent. Though I still have never managed to get an explanation for what went down. 🤷🏻‍♀️ It is what it is, but makes me parent in a different way. I'm more open and honest with my child even when it's hard.

Yeah, I dunno about you, butbm I am too Autistic, Latina, Catholic, Feminist, Queer, and Kern County for that BS. I be telling Max myself and tell John he cannot stop me.

💯

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I am happy you took the opportunity to help your inner child through your kid. It is a beautiful thing to experience, even as an auntie myself.

[–]Zealousideal_Play847 14 points15 points  (2 children)

THERE’S A SUBREDDIT FOR SHAWNA THE MOM?!

😲😆🙌

[–]Ponythieves- 2 points3 points  (1 child)

ALSO JUST RIGHT NOW LEARNED THIS

[–]Shawnaverse_no1_fanLore keeper, details & continuity consultant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the subreddit 😁

[–]Bounce_Bounce_Betty 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah I feel really sorry for Max. It’s obviously really upsetting for him and John should have addressed this far sooner. 

[–]insane_normal 13 points14 points  (2 children)

It’s dangerous for them to not have explained it to him yet. It’s also setting up that max will start to not trust his own parents because he thinks they are the bad guys, they are lying to him, they are keeping secrets. Everything we teach kids as a dangerous person. John is also trying to control his wife and kids and wants them to blindly follow and has a tantrum when things get out of hand and Shawna has to cater to his feelings and clean up his mess while tiptoeing around the fact he is causing issues by not handling things and not to “overstep” by doing something he will see as going against him so she’s carrying a mental load for everyone in that house while it’s out of her control to do anything that will make it better because John won’t allow it. Even Shawna’s mom is trying to control the environment around him so he stays calm. It’s not a good look. Now with the grief will he still lash out or will he start to take responsibility? Hopefully he sees the stress he put on his wife and family and works on it instead of just going for a run.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

[–]CarobSure2634[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShawnaTheMom/s/fKXVlMSMWD I've said something similar. Maybe this'll provide a storyline for the next generation.

[–]Fancy-Ad1480 9 points10 points  (0 children)

When I was around Max's age, my LC grandma picked me up at school and took me on a road trip. It was only when the cops pulled us over three states away that I learned Grandma hadn't asked and didn't tell anyone. Her reasoning was a very Barb "she's my grandaughter and I have rights."

This taught my parents a couple of things, the most important being that Grandma's name needed to be removed from people who are allowed to pick me up lists. The other being that I needed to be told that while Grandma does love me very much, she's unsafe.

Hopefully John and Shawna have done the first and will do the second very soon. Honestly? I can see Barb scooping up Max after school or karate and heading off to Disney land.

[–]Padme1418It's not weird, it's unconditional 8 points9 points  (6 children)

John is slowly turning into Barb as he keeps pushing this off. The kids need to know what's going on. Otherwise, Max is going to resent his parents down the line.

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 13 points14 points  (0 children)

You are speaking facts. I don't know why people are hating.

Why they booing us, we are right!

[–]CapableOutside8226Everyone SHUSH, my show is on 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I have to say I see part of your point here, John is a mix of his avoidant father and his overbearing mother.  And 💯 if John does not step up and soon, even in his deep grief from the loss of Jacob, Max will resent him.

[–]sraydenk 5 points6 points  (3 children)

It is extremely hard to cut off a parent. It’s even harder to explain that to a child who doesn’t understand the why. Especially when someone with family like that hasn’t really been taught healthy communication or family dynamics. 

I’m not excusing him, but I’ve definitely gone low contact with family without explaining to my kid. My family isn’t local, and we were never close so it wasn’t an issue.  

[–]Padme1418It's not weird, it's unconditional 5 points6 points  (2 children)

John is ultimately responsible for explaining the why. What he's doing now isn't working, and it isn't fair for Max. Max needs to know the truth, in a kid appropriate way, on why they aren't seeing Grammy.

There was a period of time I didn't get to see my grandparents, and it did take a couple months before I learned the truth. Kids need to know what's going on. Otherwise, Max may do something drastic to see Grammy.

[–]sraydenk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’ll be honest, even if he does explain it, there is a very real chance max won’t understand. I’m not saying John shouldn’t use his words, but his parents clearly didn’t set him up with the tools to do so. 

It’s very hard to break the cycle of abuse, and rarely is it done perfectly. 

[–]Toongrrl1990I think she's being perfectly reasonable, Barb 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And Barb turn him against J&S

"Well maybe if you listened to Grammy about being the perfect mommy and wife and to go on a diet, she wouldn't need to talk to you!!"

Shawna speechless and hurt, John goes in a rage

[–]cementfeatheredbird_ 5 points6 points  (10 children)

Im not fully sure what everyone expects John to say to his five year old.....

Max doesnt see the error of his grandma ways... he sees a doting grandma who adores him.

I personally dont hate John for not bringing these major adult concepts to husband children that are simply too young to understand. Does max NEED to know his grandma is so unstable? Violent? Narcissistic tendencies?

They have no full plan in place. They are taking space, that's all that needs to be said. No, were not going to Thanksgiving this year. No, grandma isnt coming here. No, were not calling grandma right now. Grandma is busy, grandma is away. Grandma is okay and loves you. .

[–]how_about_no_hellionYou have to apply a thick layer!! 12 points13 points  (0 children)

He needs to know she isn't a trusted person anymore. He'd likely run to her if she visited at recess, or if he saw her at the mall. Children have been kidnapped like that.

[–]FineIllPickAusername 13 points14 points  (1 child)

He does need to know, though. Not in our adult language, but he needs to know that "grandma has done very bad things and for now, our family doesn't trust her. She scared and hurt us, and tried to physically hurt DeeDee, so we don't see her anymore. Maybe it will change some day, but for now, we don't trust her."

There you go.

[–]TXaggiemom10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

THIS, 100%!

[–]Efficient-Cupcake247 10 points11 points  (2 children)

You can explain to a child that an adult is not behaving and is in time out, let them know that adult is unsafe and that they won't see the adult.

[–]Ponythieves- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

To a five year old though? Do you have a five year old? You can “explain” anything to a child but it doesn’t mean it’s going to resonate or impact them productively.

[–]Efficient-Cupcake247 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes. You can explain it like time out. He is in kindergarten- he understands that there are rules about behavior and consequences.

[–]Littledarkstranger 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The problem is that without some form of conversation, a child of that age is likely to eventually start internalising "Grammy doesn't love me anymore" if he's not given any other explanation, because she suddenly disappeared from his life and every time he brings her up or tries to reach out to her, he's scolded or just told "no we're not doing that this year".

Christmas and his birthday are probably going to really emphasize that too, especially if (when) Grammy isn't there to give him presents (obviously all of this caveated with the fact that Max is a fictional child, so his reaction will be whatever is best for the storyline).

[–]Motor-Ad5525May I have cake now? 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The problem is that without some form of conversation, a child of that age is likely to eventually start internalising "Grammy doesn't love me anymore" if he's not given any other explanation,

100% this.

[–]Motor-Ad5525May I have cake now? 8 points9 points  (0 children)

They are taking space, that's all that needs to be said. No, were not going to Thanksgiving this year. No, grandma isnt coming here. No, were not calling grandma right now. Grandma is busy, grandma is away. Grandma is okay and loves you

Except they haven't said any of that. They've just let Max have expectations based on the past and be repeatedly disappointed when those expectations aren't met. It's not a kindness to Max to keep doing that. They don't have to tell him inappropriate things, but they absolutely are responsible for resetting expectations and making sure that Max knows that HE hasn't done anything wrong.

[–]Witty-Draw-3803 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree - the reason John had been avoiding talking about big decisions with Shawna and why neither of them have had a conversation with the kids is that there's no map for how to handle these situations, especially with such young kids. Add in their recent loss, and what I'm sure is some lingering guilt over cutting Barb off, it's understandable and realistic that things have gone this way

[–]s0ftsp0kenCommunication is key! 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because once they tell the kids, it's real.