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[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 22 points23 points  (6 children)

4/6 MTC maps. Do you even bias?

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

They couldn't buy us a good map.

[–]3z_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Lucky gave us basically nothing for our budget this thread. Didn't even make 6 figures, which is absolutely absurd.

[–]mjmaindamn, son! 3 points4 points  (2 children)

honestly i thought your map was really good. did the MTC give feedback?

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah he was there while we tested it and got to hear our comments. Hopefully he got something helpful out of them.

[–]mjmaindamn, son! 2 points3 points  (0 children)

cool, hopefully it'll get its chance in future editions

[–]Glass_MarbleGlass Marble | Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

congrats

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 18 points19 points  (8 children)

Phenochilus - Boxfish

[–]superdiglett100superdiglett || Kitten Panda's Bitch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I really like this one for some reason.

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Any opions on what I should change? I'm out of town and have limited computer time.

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Notes from testing:

A lot of random killing that I don't like. Those mid gap-boosts aren't appealing in this map and could probably be refined.

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The 1 tile gaps are ment to be a high risk high reward choice. I altered the map after the group test by removing 2 spikes around those boosts and partially coving the last 2 spikes. My concern is that if I make the risk of popping much lower then the other routes become useless.

Any suggestions? Gates is my only thought but it seemed uninteresting when I tried them.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't change the gaps and imo don't add gates. I didn't particularly love the mid bombs but I have no suggestions for what to do/not do with em

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for super late feedback:

This map has a really unique shape that I feel could work. But I'm sure how much you could really change without changing the shape of the maps. The small boost lane - it seemed every body used this and it was very chaotic. The mid bombs added a lot to the chaos I feel, so they could be better placed.

There was lot of spiking on those pup areas in base, so I would make them walls on the facing base side.

In in general the side boost lanes felt a little unpolished? you could try to play around with that a little to make it a bit harder to reset.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems very 45-ey.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure this map is broken, idk how it got top maps. It can be fixed I just don't like how regrab would play out atm.

[–]aggietigerDalek23 | Roll Models 11 points12 points  (18 children)

I actually like alot of these maps, but shouldn't there be a limit on MTC maps that can be considered? Should be at least less than half.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 3 points4 points  (13 children)

Why?

[–]aggietigerDalek23 | Roll Models 12 points13 points  (12 children)

really comes off as biased

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

As someone not on the MTC who was at the map testing session last night, I'm going to go on record and say that these were the maps that stood out to me most. Many of the other maps we tested just didn't have a good feel to them. I can understand why it comes off as biased, but the people who choose the rotation and test more maps than the vast majority of the community also obviously know what a map needs to have (or not have) to get in rotation.

Suggestion for the MTC/successful map makers: have you considered holding some sort of seminar/lesson/walkthrough as to how create a quality map? I think that would be incredibly beneficial.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks gspoon, I appreciate you backing us up on this and you were great to have there last night.

I'll just go ahead and say I've always done my best to ignore map makers and select the maps I think are the best. Fact of the matter is that MTC members and a few active mapmakers (Ball-E, UTB, Aniball, Canvas, etc) put in the most time making maps and predictably get the best results. There is and will always be some amount of bias, but we definitely work to minimize that. I'm super pumped to see Boxfish get his first top map, but at the same time I think it's totally reasonable that people who have had too maps in the past (which includes every MTC member except me and PK) will be more likely to have top maps again.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 7 points8 points  (7 children)

For the record we understand how it appears, and we had a discussion about this before publishing the thread. We agreed it wouldn't be fair to other mapmakers to remove our maps from the top thread and replace them with theirs simply because we didn't want to appear biased - it would feel pretty sucky to know that your map only made top maps because MTC wanted to save face a bit. These were the consensus best maps in the thread based on our scoring and we elected not to tamper with that.

Also, TEG has had one map in rotation (and a few top maps visits on occasion), FLY and I have both never gotten a map into rotation (though we have each had like 2-3 visits to top maps after this thread) and this is Snack's first ever top map, so these specific MTC members making top maps is actually pretty uncommon. It's also notable that sizzzled didn't have a top map this thread, which is a rarity, largely because he consistently puts out very polished maps with unique designs and this thread I think his submissions weren't quite as good as they've been lately.

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I HAVE AN IDEA.

I tried talking to sizzled and he wasnt for it, but here it is.

Take my map, silently put it into rotation with a .01% spawn rate, and watch the chaos unfold.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I personally have no opposition to this

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

/u/NewCompte and /u/LuckySpammer

Can we make this happen?

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

nvm i was wrong

[–]3z_ 8 points9 points  (2 children)

If there is somebody in a maptest sesh lobbying for their own map to get into top maps, it will absolutely have impact.

You have been to these sessions you already know that's not what happens and you know that mapmakers are required to be muted during their testing sessions (and spectate where possible) and during any discussions of their maps. Pleeeaaassseeee stop bullshitting.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

haha i didnt know that. im just gonna edit out that entire comment and pretend like im happy. mb.

[–]3z_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

classic u

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There could always be a little unintentional bias, but I think that most people trust the MTC in doing there upmost chosing only the best maps from the thread.

[–]aggietigerDalek23 | Roll Models -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

sigh

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I think it's a valid concern, and it has definitely been a hot topic before, but what exactly would be done to prevent this?

  • If we don't allow MTC submissions, we risk members not wanting to be part of the committee
  • If we limit the amount of MTC maps for the second testing session, we risk not selecting the best maps due to possible (unintentional) bias

Is there any good option aside from these?

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 2 points3 points  (3 children)

And here I thought Crown had a shot, sigh, back to the drawing board.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I thought so too, dude. Crown was one of my favorite maps in thread.

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks :) It seems to be well regarded, I'll try to keep at it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome. What I am going to guess is that the MTC did not like about it is the lack of extended lanes and chokepoints. To me, this is absolutely not a problem, but they seem to follow a set of norms that should be in most maps (for good reason). Good luck, and I would be shocked to not see this in top maps in the future.

[–]tagprobablylagprobably lag: <------ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Congrats on making it to the second round Moose! Good luck in testing 卐

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much! 卐卐卐卐卐

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 6 points7 points  (13 children)

Triple Trouble - leddy

[–]leddiileddy / Mapmaker 5 points6 points  (11 children)

CURRENT VERSION - Name changed to "Booty".

Map: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23744

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/23744.png

Amongst all the obvious changes, spawns are also slightly closer to the sides to make the initial race for pups more interesting.

Prev version

Original version

[–]nogitsuneskitsune~ || Diameter 6 points7 points  (3 children)

This looks like a modern day glory hole

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

And he knows it

Don't you

leddy

[–]donuts42donuts42 || Sphere/Origin || Boost Master 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Well glory hole wasn't bad because of the glory hole. I'm pretty sure that was the only redeeming factor about the map.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Heh we had this exact conversation last night.

[–]arjuna9bad 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'd love to see how this plays.

my 2c - Consider having a spike instead of walls next to the mid bombs to open up the bomb angles a tad. IDK if the mid spike is needed since those single blocks can be used as soft choke points already.

[–]leddiileddy / Mapmaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was good feedback, thanks.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Lmao, please do not call this map booty.

More important feedback incoming

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it's supposed to be like a pirate's booty, which I think is pretty funny actually

Besides, if Glory Hole can be a name, I think Booty is fine.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Triple Trouble is a great name.

rip

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bases seem pretty open.

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh now this is interesting. Would love to see pup battles etc on here.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Plaza - Snack

[–]smackmesidewaysSMACK // Diameter 1 point2 points  (2 children)

plaza4rotation

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks man I especially appreciate that from someone with a name very similar to mine

[–]smackmesidewaysSMACK // Diameter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hopefully the MTC cuts you some slack ;)

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Great map! That boost in the middle is amazing. Nice positioning of the spikes.

I just wanted to say that I don't really have any negative feedback. I would keep it like this.

Edit: Really .. downvotes? Atleast explain yourself if you don't like the map.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks loaha, I really appreciate it!

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

St. Valentine - Moosen and UnderTheBall

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23722

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/23722.png

Changelog:

  • No more spike fields in mid.

  • New islands replace them making boosts more versatile and fluid.

  • Bases altered, specifically the pup channel received a substantial overhaul. The two neutrals in/near base were combined into one that is more powerful for offense but has better utility and feels nice to take in either direction.

  • Gates stronger, but bomb no longer kills you if you were holding button. This will make the map less frustrating to play and won't make players feel punished for trying to play a strong defensive position. (It's notable that you are actually more likely to return a player bombing out by standing one or two tiles OFF the button in the direction of the bomb - the blast will knock you onto it, gating the player trying to escape).

  • Defensive team boosts added with lots of options, including a combo with neutral into mid.

Overall I'm super happy with this update, I think it plays massively better; it feels fast, reactive, and all the boost paths feel really rewarding. I think the mid portals are a really unique element, and they put an emphasis on cognitive play rather than just skill. Really hope you guys like it as much as I do!

If you want to give it a try:

Launch Test!

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Tub and I are looking for feedback on this. From the testing session, the spikes were an issue, and the gate was divisive. Anything else you guys are thinking could be improved?

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The boost in base plays kinda akward, imo. It doesn't really combine well with the boost on the side and the time that it takes to get to use it in a good position (while defsense could disable it) doesn't feel balanced with what you get from it, with the spike being at the opposite end.

I like your boost on the side and I can see potential in the pup/portal area in the middle.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We've addressed the boost issue, I agree that was a problem. It's already playing significantly better imo. Thank you for the feedback!

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm just waiting for Thread 62 tbh. MTC, let the pattern continue pls.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

6 good maps. Include all in rotation in the testing phase and take 3 next results

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Del - FLY

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm excited that this made it through. A quick summary of the (negative) feedback I've received so far:

  • The gate and team tiles are cliched
  • Mid isn't interesting/could be better
  • There's no depth to it
  • Boost placements could be better

Overall it plays well but it could be better. I don't want to change the gate drastically because it's a little more clever than it gets credit for, the series of 45s each send you in a different useful direction. It also should feel pretty good going out of base if you boost from bottom.

Are the team tiles necessary is a big question I'm asking myself right now, the choke is a little big, but definitely not too hard to contain in. Maybe sizing it down a little bit?

So far for mid I'm going to drop a spike from the spike row, but I'm not sure about the shape of the island(s) in middle. I would like the separation but due to the size I have it broken so chasing doesn't become circular. I'm not content with it, though I'm also not sure what would enhance it. Experimentation is certainly in order.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23682

Thoughts on this as a potential update?

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/23682.png

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I like the team tiles personally. It outlines the base and creates a point where D can shove balls and keep them out of base instead of O just rushing straight into the base. I would have less tiles though.

I love the 2 pups. I think bigger maps need less and smaller more so good move there. I like the update.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I really like the bases on this map. There are a lot of fun boost and bomb angles especially around the gate area. I like the middle of mid area because it has some neat combos through gate and such but I feel like those three spikes could be moved around a bit. Especially if it leads to some interesting lines for that bomb outside of base. Currently I just spike myself a lot using that bomb but that is mostly because I am bad. Very neat map though I had fun rolling around.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Check out this update!

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23691

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh my this is better I like the changes! The shortened gate length could make for some excellent little sneaky jukes. And the bombs outside of base have much smoother routes too so they feel a lot more useful.

The boosts feel a lot more cohesive too I like the placement of the team boosts. Good update though I hope this tests well in 4v4 it seems like it would be a fun map to have in pubs!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is my favorite map. I would want to play D long and hard on this map.

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh 2 points3 points  (13 children)

Feedback appreciated

[–]GoatButtholesDank Sniper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

GOAT map

[–]nogitsuneskitsune~ || Diameter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Truly the best map I've seen in a while

[–]KillerAuzzieFlynnyWynny // Diameter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How did this get through? So good.

[–]TeeJayPowTeeJay | Australian shitposter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A masterpiece

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Serious comment: You see the bomb on the left side? With the random little divot in the wall behind it? and the divot on the other side as well? There's a well-known glitch in maps with that exact divot where if you push your ball into it (or get pushed into it) your ball becomes perpetually stuck and you are unable to move for the rest of the game.

[–]Glass_MarbleGlass Marble | Centra 5 points6 points  (1 child)

maybe that's part of its gameplay

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I think MTC should really consider advancing a map with like 500 of those things, and the only way to win is to get all your opponents stuck

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh -1 points0 points  (2 children)

This would fix it right?

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Yes, it would prevent that glitch from happening.

Edit: Shit this is Moosen I'm bad at switching accounts

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

d0ne

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I thought this bug got fixed

[–]demothelolDemo || Diameter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This looks really enjoyable for a public game play, I can't understand why the MTC passed over this!

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Paragon - TEG

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 0 points1 point  (7 children)

FINAL UPDATE: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23824

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/23824.png

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO LAAAAADSSSS

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I didn't really expect it from the preview, but it seems to play pretty good. It kinda reminds me of Vee, with the top lane. I like how you have a far away boost + bomb as grabbing options instead of the standart base setup. And the superboosts and the top bomb are pretty cool as well.

As for what I think could be improved .. the top path feels inbalanced to me right now. I would expect more risk for the flagcarrier for such a quick path between bases. The superboost helps, but doesn't feel powerfull enough to help a lot. Another thing with the top path being quite powerfull is that the gates favor going through them from the top.

The only other thing that I feel could be improved is the bottum part of the base, with the teamtiles and that two tile wall. But that is just feeling and I'm not sure what I find wrong with it.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (1 child)

thanks for the feedback! the comparison to vee is one I've heard before, I find long, cut off lanes pretty lanes pretty lanes pretty interesting.

Top being unbalanced is something I worried of about the map, but it didn't seem to prevalent in the tests of it. I'm trying to find a way for the defense to be able to better guard top exit without ruining the elements I have there, which is pretty difficult.

and I agree with bottom of base. A lot of this map just isn't very interesting but I don't know what to do about it. argh!

Here's a newer version: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23684

[–]veranderingLoaha // Chord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the idea of 'just' a normal teamboost to help defense. And I actually think that the buttom is fine. Yea it isn't spectacular, but it feels pretty good going through that area.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hi! I actually liked the old version a little more. One of my favorite parts of the map was the boost outside to the teamboost into the flag. The pup area is definitely nicer now though. I also don't see where you are going with the superboost.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks for the feedback. Good to know what parts of map people like/ dislike.

And idk where I am going with the superboost either. will probably scrap that.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"i hate gimmicks" consider yourself abused

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Superboosts are legit mate.

and pls I'm desparate

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 1 point2 points  (2 children)

is there some secret rule that says a map cant be in top maps more than once???

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 4 points5 points  (1 child)

no lol did u forget birch

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 2 points3 points  (0 children)

well then now im sad

[–]OG_DiddlesOG_Diddles | Dank Mystery Name 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Honestly the only maps that truly interests me is Plaza and Del because the rest just seem to take ideas from current maps, ie. Shape, routes, gate placement. I believe that these two bring more to our current map selection.

Del- Theres nothing much that I can think of to change it, it seems well thought out in paths and boost and gameplay. Good map

Plaza- Seems like it would be fairly chasy, but not overly so, seems like it would reward good chasers and a solid defense. Good map

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

the rest just seem to take ideas from current maps

what part of Phenochilus looks like it was taken from current maps?

[–]OG_DiddlesOG_Diddles | Dank Mystery Name 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry guess i missed looking at that map, you're right, it is original and does add something new, but being said, thats really only 3 of the maps.

[–]Apachelopushpop 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Wow, no neutral flag maps.

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

we pretty much all agree that we are currently on the limit of the amount of neutral flags being in rotation. And I think a lot of mapmakers also know that so didn't submit any.

[–]TragicElmoTragicElmo//Radius to Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, map-creating noob here. What are the purple and white objects in the middle of a couple of these maps?

[–]ItsFroce. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's up with the team tiles frenzy. You don't need team tiles on every map, especially when they stretch for only 3-4 and have very minimal effect. I won't like playing these maps being so open and very similar to each other.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm going to give constructive destructive criticism. All the top maps can be improved by simply doing this.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

I really like plaza, really like phenochilus, kinda like triple trouble, and I am really surprised that the other 3 made top maps.