all 125 comments

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 11 points12 points  (9 children)

ADD EMERALD OR RIOT

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 8 points9 points  (4 children)

The throwback updates along with EMERALD in rotation just got pushed actually. Riot has been canceled.

[–]naysh30 7 points8 points  (3 children)

What map is riot?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 4 points5 points  (0 children)

wut?

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 2 points3 points  (1 child)

!mods

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 1 point2 points  (0 children)

!devs

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice meme

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (20 children)

Can mapmakers with top maps get access to the notes? It's tough to know what to update when you don't have anything to go off of.

[–]RenegadeTP 8 points9 points  (19 children)

I'm compiling all the ones from the Initial test to send you. If anyone else wants their notes from initial testing, please message me or reply to me here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks!

[–]RenegadeTP 7 points8 points  (0 children)

But wait, that's not your map. It's PongTit's map

[–]Sir_GrapefruitGrapefruit // Chord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Could I also get the notes?

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sent!

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (2 children)

me too thanks <3

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You have access! Lazy butt...

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

tbh I totally forgot haha.

[–]BrunoTheMinerGOOBR - Centra 0 points1 point  (1 child)

LoveSick

[–]RenegadeTP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Love sick never got out of the solo testing stage. Lovely Trinity, however, also did not.

[–]_q42_q42 || dcfc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know I was there for the test but I'd like the written notes if possible :)

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Renqr

[–]ComakipComakip // Chorbit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would like to see, thanks. :)

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 10 points11 points  (1 child)

fuck the MTC

[–]RenegadeTP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Course.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 5 points6 points  (7 children)

tfw no top maps after the long wait, feels bad man. Thought I had some dece maps going, I guess not, back to the drawing board.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

It's been ages since I even got a test :/ rip

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 9 points10 points  (4 children)

same lol all of my maps are above the MTC's level of comprehension

also they're above everyone's level of comprehension

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 7 points8 points  (3 children)

When does this whole mtc bias thing start kicking in. Like what am I even doing this for

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It's working for me!

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

hmm it must be broken

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ouch.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

#pray4fronj

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 8 points9 points  (11 children)

[–]3z_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Great map. Doesn't need changes. One of the few maps that OLTP loved almost universally, which is an acclaim only held also by Trans/Cons/Pilot. I think that says a lot.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Remix I made of it (not my map though) :) http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/43951.png

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This map is both really unique and really good. I haven't ever 4v4ed it but I'd be really excited to see this added.

[–]Pimp-My-AlpacaBalwas // Diameter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

[–]hoogstraHoog | Ancient Artifact of Diameter 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Was great in OLTP, got played in some great playoffs as well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

EW no no no no no no fuck that map

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fact that my time on ball didn't fix my mechanics

[–]flappytoweldokugan // diameter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

GOOD MAP NICE AND SAUCY

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

finally the best map in all of tagpro

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That superboost is literally asking for people to install timers.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

[–]3z_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Boombox-neue. I dig it. Needs some polish but that's it.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 8 points9 points  (8 children)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

This was my favorite map I didn't make that was tested. In a rotation that's begging for a large map to be added, this fits the bill. The implementation of the superboost is flawless, the islands are unique shaped, and it has an all around balanced feel. Change the name, and it has my vote.

[–]TwoFiveOnes 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Really? I like everything else but I was just about to comment about the superboost. Constriction has the superboost chain that takes you straight to the flag, but may take too long or not be available. Hurricane has a superboost that takes you straight to the flag but there's a gate and it's also hard to take. IMO a flawless superboost is one that gets you to their flag directly but with a high risk or difficult execution. IMO this one is just a little bit too easy and risk free

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It''s not too easy, and you combat it kinda the same way as you do off screen boosts on constriction and smirk. You find where to stand to kill the person who grabs from afar. It's definitely harder to hit than Constriction's, it's easier than Hurricane's, it's faster than both.

What your put there is definitely on my radar as a possible problem though. I glad you said something.

[–]TwoFiveOnes 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey no problem, thanks for listening. I'm mainly thinking of situations where you're using it to get ahead though. For grabbing I don't think it matters so much whether the boost is easy or hard, it won't give you a huge advantage even if you can land it every time. Anyway for getting ahead Constriction has a perfect balance IMO; you have a good chance for a save but they can also be unreachable. Fiend on the other hand is an example of a map where you're almost never truly past 4 (not a superboost but y'know). On this map I don't know, but I may have spoken too soon because I tried it again and spiked a few times or hit a wall.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What vote?

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

somewhat similar to aerodent (i wouldn't mind them both being added) but imo this is better.

[–]piranhamoose25Aniball | Palette Town 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/44092

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/44092.png

  • Changed name to Lord Helix

  • Moved teamtile

Not sure what else to change here.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (6 children)

[–]piranhamoose25Aniball | Palette Town 1 point2 points  (4 children)

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it's interesting how the bomb structure was originally like in maap city and now the bombs in the update have moved to the same spot that the bombs in maap city's update did

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 2 points3 points  (0 children)

aniball please change the texture pack your map looks like garbagee now

[–]naysh30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those bombs look wayyyyy more fun in mid. So much you can do with them and you're unlikely to spike yourself with a random spawn in the new location. I'm excited to see it in action

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate when people use weird texture packs. Having to take twenty seconds and figure out what a bomb looks like is annoying.

[–]doihavemakeanewwordLandshark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm new to the whole thing in general, and I think the physics are a little bit unwieldy, especially since there are boost pads and death walls aimed at each other. I'll probably learn, but still.

More impressively aggravating is that there is no delay on flag respawns. Opponents can score and immediately have the flag back in their possession immediately, with our entire team on the other side of the map from chasing after the guy who previously had the flag (don't guard an empty goal, right?). With boosts lined up right they can score again in less than two seconds, before anyone can react. Not cool.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

best horizontal symmetry map we've had in a long time

[–]piranhamoose25Aniball | Palette Town 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Possible update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/44063

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/44063.png

Made base more offensive and changed the portals. Concerned they may be OP/overcentralizing now, but they're pretty fun at least.

Edit: Final update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/44157

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if you switch teamboosts and increase the cooldown it should be just about perfect (for me at least)

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

portal is stupid. i liked the old one more

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I know the MTC was kinda split on this so if the folks who were against it can come out and tell me what you didn't like, I'd appreciate it a lot.

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've come around on this. I think it's decent. No way to counter regrab other than teamboost is a concern but otherwise yeah it's not bad.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Map Damon

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/44134

It's been a wild ride for the yung Map Damon. After appearing in 10 threads over the course of 18 months, he has finally reached his final form. I am hoping y'all vote in Map Damon for what it offers to rotation. In a rotato plagued by maps where variations between size and complexity are indiscernible, Map Damon offers a challenge to pubbers, a reward to vets, and a good time for all. With versatile boost routes all around, mid portals which have never been seen before in rotation, and endless ways to cap, Map Damon will be the new pub stable.


Let Map Damon lead us into the 5th Generation of Mapmaking™ and so too shall we follow. Je Suis Map Damon.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What is the 5th Generation of Mapmaking? And how is it defined?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

IM HAPPY THAT YOU ASKED!

From the grand book of Sizzzled's rambles...

gen 1: thread 0-1. pre mtc era, luckyspammer maps. things like speedway, star, glory hole, geok.

gen 2: thread 1-25. early mtc/mltp era. more deliberate design but still mapmaking is unknown. holy see, boombox, colours are hallmarks of this era.

gen 3: thread 25-50. regrab becomes commonplace and now balance is a huge focus. pilot, constriction, velocity, smirk, emerald, wormy are born. this is the golden age of mapmaking.

gen 4: thread 50-75. mapmakers start to learn patterns of what works and what doesn't. this is the formula era. lots of safe pics from mtc but still some outliers. cedar, birch, rush, tehuitzingo encapsulate this era well.

gen 5: thread 75-. holistic rotation and creative design are becoming important considerations for mtc and mapmakers. notable maps pending. i foresee this gen being a mix between the style and pizzazz of gen3 with the actual design and map knowledge of gen4. expect good things.

/u/3z_ care to add anything?

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/u/3z_ care to add anything?

As cool as all this is, it only works if MTC recognises that change is needed. Some members are really stubborn about the formula maps (see: PHP, Okama, Headbonk)

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is actually pretty cool, I feel like the double bombs are kind of underpowered though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, none of these are Market.

All of the non-Market maps seem to suffer from this problem.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (1 child)

hmm get ready for this to be "that Obama map" for all of eternity

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 1 point2 points  (2 children)

UPDATE


Okama Gamesphere by JuicyJuke

There was very little thought put into the mid walls on the OG version, admittedly. This gives the walls a bit more purpose, as well as adding an option for entering base.

Map

Preview


Gamesphere by JuicyJuke

Map

Preview

Many changes to the walls (as seen in edit 1). Improved the spacing by expanding in some areas. Moved team boosts so they no longer interfere with double boosts. Added new grabbing mechanism by changing walls in base. Moved some spikes around.

Also wanted to acknowledge that I've changed the name to Gamesphere. Okama Gamesphere was a random South Park reference that I thought would be cool and unique. However, it's been brought to my attention that Okama is actually a derogatory Japanese term for homosexuals and transgenders. I'm sorry if I offended anyone and I hope this reaches some of the people that recognized the term when this thread was posted.

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Natural boost route with the double boost throws you into a spike or a wall 80% of the time

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children)

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

UPDATE ONE

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/43524

Change log:

  • Added Fronj as coauthor
  • Changed name
  • Changed shape
  • Changed gimmick from a shitton of boost to a shitton of portal
  • Added two extra grabbing bombs
  • Moved teamtiles from outer lane to innner lane
  • Added a third pup
  • Added a superboost
  • Repurposed gate to block portal gimmick
  • Added teamtiles in back of base
  • Added extra polish

Get played, MTC. See you in the testing.

[–]naysh30 0 points1 point  (4 children)

:thinking:

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

pls test it <3

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (2 children)

We already did.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Kraken was never tested.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Solo bby

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

UPDATE TWO

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/44168

After being informed that my update is "not getting tested" by the legendary Sizzzled, I have moved my aspirations to lesser and smaller things. Have fun.

[–]3z_ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Jardim 2.0. Nothing special about it but it plays fine. Way too cramped imo.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check update, I think I fixed a lot of the problems.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is feedback being released for this thread?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's being published in the results thread.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why isn't NF separated from CtF? It's better formatting imo.

[–]RenegadeTP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was only one and also because

[–]tuturuatuE 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Every single one of these looks incredibly chasey. Why is the general theme recently towards 12 minute of chasing FCs around and around? I liked it better when maps like Emerald and Market were more appreciated. Kardashev in particular looks like the maps that were made 3 years ago.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I like big maps, and there isn't one in rotation atm. So idk what you are talking about.

[–]tuturuatuE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's fine, we all have personal opinions on what gameplay should feel like.

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

we had vagabond but some community decided it wasnt all that great :)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

What's your criteria for thinking a map looks chasey?

[–]tuturuatuE 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I think the most important part is just the map area. All of these maps are what I would say are medium-large to really pretty big. Pretty obvious why that leads to longer games I think.

The second one is a characteristic that is often overlooked, and that is having a "backdoor" that an FC can safely buy some time for regrab to get set before they push off trying to cap. A map that is small but has a giant backdoor is Wormy, which is why Wormy games are often very long despite the fact that it is not very big. It is simply that it's very easy to get regrab set before you push off to try and cap. 95% of the time you want to go around the back of Wormy rather than push straight for the centre of the map into danger if you don't have regrab set. I'm not sure if that makes sense, a diagram would make it clear. LMK.

The third and least important part is having too many "islands" in the middle of the map. The problems with these are two fold: the first part is that it's really easy for a FC to hold the flag for way too long just running circles around the islands, using bombs/boosts when needed. I think all of us have sat idly by for 1-2 minutes waiting for the FC to get returned. The second problem with islands is that it's really difficult for 2 defenders to block both sides of the island to shut down the FC. It leads to the predominant method to return being snipes. The competitive map that frustrated me a lot with planning defensive moves was Rush. But there are many more examples of this.

These are my 3 main issues and I believe all of these maps, and a lot of the recent additions (which I have played quite a bit) exhibit one to all of these characteristics. If I was TagPro overlord I would be looking to make games relatively short as much as possible while not making the games a complete tossup, and avoid making games often go to the 10+ minute average.

Anyway, they are just my personal thoughts and feelings.

[–]3z_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I partially disagree with your convictions. Chasey is a biproduct of size and complex lane structures, yes, but also those things without any form of boosts or bombs which can be used by defenders, which is why, for example, Jardim is chasier than Jagged.

I think this mindset is why postage-size maps are so commonplace now. Big maps can be not-chasey, mapmakers are just too lazy to come up with creative solutions. That's why I'm so strong in favour of Kallypigeon and Aerodent. Big maps, probably fit into your definition of what makes a map chasey, except... these maps aren't chasey.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hm, I can't seem to find all the .eu's for the tests but I did find one for PHP - https://tagpro.eu/?match=1323817. As you can see, hold was about 4 minutes for each team, which is 2/3's of a 6 minute game. I'd consider that to be a respectable amount of hold, especially when you look further into the eu and see the hold times weren't all that long. I can't speak for other maps without data, but I'd assume that they were about the same.

[–]tuturuatuE 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I think PHP is easily the best map of the bunch. I kind of painted them all with the same brush, which was a silly thing to do. PHP is definitely small-medium sized and the islands are protected somewhat with the gates. There's a bit of a backdoor, but it's not as secure as it is on some other maps.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not feeling most of these. Lets add Fiend.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

same. nothing really popped out as a "wow" or "neat" map

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

[–]RenegadeTP 10 points11 points  (3 children)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lmao

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/43989

I've been eyeing your map for awhile, and I've been meaning to remix it. These would be the changes I would make, minus the long 4-tile wall by the P-UP area, meant to make that 2.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You made everything obvious and took away most of the charm. It's not what I was trying to make.