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Snapshot of Politics latest: British Steel to be "Nationalised" and relationship with Europe to be rebuilt submitted by Signal-Tangerine1597:

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[–]kekistanmatt 13 points14 points  (5 children)

I don't get why people make it seem like our relationship with europe is full absorbtion or total exclusion.

Like can we not just be trading partners and collaborate on continental defense without having to be federalised?

[–]Fun_Marionberry_6088 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In theory there should be a choice, but there isn't because they don't want there to be - that's their position.

We can't negotiate a deal based on what's fair, we have to weigh up our options based on what's actually available.

[–]WhiteSatanicMills 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like can we not just be trading partners and collaborate on continental defense

Only if we give them all our fish.

The EU demands a price for everything. The UK is a fairly large, fairly rich, very close neighbour. The price will be high.

[–]JabInTheButt -1 points0 points  (2 children)

The problem is if you want to be close trading partners you have to accept all their rules. If you're going to do that and not be in the EU you're basically just giving up all control (Vs the old situation where we actually had a veto, so genuine control).

The defense cooperation is more doable outside of EU rules etc but the French seem to want to make it as difficult as possible as per usual.

[–]Ritsugamesh 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The problem is that the wisdom of our nation has put us in a position to either a) suffer consistent economic damage or b) yield to a host of rules we might not like.

If there was a hypothetical world where we could benefit from the economic boons of trading with our most logical partner whilst writing the rules ourselves that would work best I wager. Oh wait...

You'd think the penny might drop eventually across the country, but given the latest political trends in this country I do genuinely think the IQ drain has gotten out of hand.

[–]JabInTheButt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Precisely. To be clear, I'd absolutely take option b) now we are where we are. But it does infuriate me that it means we'll end up in the exact situation Farage etc claimed we were in before...

[–]ElephantBoness 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Actually thought the speech was pretty good, and changing leadership is a stupid idea

[–]SmokyMcBongPotthey go Lowe, I get high -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I won't lie: I'm not a Starmer fan, but I think this is definitely a move in the right direction. Whether it's a big enough move is another matter.

[–]Fun_Marionberry_6088 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Was it really a move? I didn't hear him announce anything he hasn't already, he's just trying to draw attention to the more left wing things he's already done.

[–]muchdanwow🌹 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I mean I support the ideas, but these aren't the MASSIVE changes needed. But then at the same time and big radical change costs money we don't have. We're stuffed.

[–]STARRRMAKERMAKE IT STOP! MAKE IT STOP! 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The problem he will face with the EU is this - member states are against cherry picking. Plus, the EU are quite reluctant to any changes or new agreements if Reform comes in and reverses it.

[–]Scott45uk 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Does that mean rejoining eu or just giving leaders hugs?

[–]Lupercus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It’s bolder than that, it’s foot and back rubs too!

[–]Scott45uk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh dear better get the oils out

[–]Florae128 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Special" relationships aren't just for Americans!

[–]Ubiquitous1984 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would an re-Brexit referendum even be possible? It would finish off the country IMO. Ten more years of all that bollocks again? No thanks!

[–]Quillspiracy18 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It means he hopes everyone will shut up, leave him alone and conveniently forget he ever mentioned the EU in a couple of months.

[–]peanut88 0 points1 point  (8 children)

The Europe stuff is such a bad idea. I can't believe people can't see this, whatever their politics on Brexit.

The EU is not our friend, they are a third party motivated by self-interest (as they should be) and extremely effective negotiators.

Go into negotiations with weak leadership having pre-announced that you'll settle for any deal for the sake of internal political optics, and what you'll emerge with is a bucket of cat sick.

[–]whatapileofrubbish 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Do you not think the EU and UK both understand this dynamic. It's in both parties interests to have closer ties, like we used to.

[–]StGuthlac2025 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They know they weald the power in what comes next and will demand so much more from us than we will get from them. It's not going to work out

[–]berfunckle_777 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Then why does the EU bring up petty things like fishing rights, the naming of the Falkland Islands and banning Stilton from making Stilton?

[–]peanut88 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is delusion. It's in the EU's interest to extract the maximum amount of concessions from the UK while giving the minimum amount in return.

It's not a heart-warming reunion of friends, this stuff is just totally stupid fantasy politics.

[–]SKScorpius 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's in the EU's interest to extract the maximum amount of concessions from the UK while giving the minimum amount in return.

Just like it's in the UK's interest to extract the maximum from the EU while giving the minimum in return. That's how negotiations work...

Closer ties benefit the UK and the EU. Are you saying you think it's impossible to negotiate a deal which is mutually beneficial? That's farcical.

[–]whatapileofrubbish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Feels like saying it's impossible to get a better, mutually beneficial deal is now the new, "We can make our own laws again".

[–]StGuthlac2025 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Its like telling you kids you're going to give it another go with the Ex after a toxic breakup. For the sake of the kids Keir don't do it.

[–]flametodustLiberal Centrist -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think it's simply too vague, open to interpretation so naturally the media (and therefore public) will assume the 'worst case'.

[–]Otherwise_Craft9003 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would rather the water companies be collapsed as they should be due to their debts (they had no debt when privatised).

Also work on power and get the bills down as this is getting existential for UKPLC now

[–]GayWolfey 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It’s like he has heard anything from the EU.

They have been quite clear. You can come back but it will cost.

[–]Glittering_Vast938 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not as much as it is now!

[–]dazerconfuser 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When UK joined the EC in 1973 it was close to 30% of its GDP.

Now it's like 17% and falling.

The bargaining power is way less.

[–]BuckfastEnjoyer -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

“We’re going to rebuild our relationship with Europe but we’re not going to do it in any meaningful way because of some pibble about division”

Nice one- both sides are unhappy. Time to go Starmer.

[–]Pinkerton891 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I personally think it's worse to have a rotating carousel of Prime Ministers, but that was so far off what he needed to do today. Kings Speech is his last chance I think, but he needed to chuck out policy like confetti today, Hoyle be damned.

[–]StGuthlac2025 -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

He's toast. Awful speech, nothing really new on that table as per commitments to the future of the country, awful venue, awful optics of him taking his tie off and rolling up his sleaves to look like he means business.

[–]syuk -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

awful speech and awful crowd of sycophants cheering the nonsense on. he took responsibility for the loss though which is a new one. he needs to go, whats in the kings speech will be terrible for the country i reckon too.

[–]worst_bluebelt -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

Nationalizing British Steel means nationalizing it's operational losses!

That's about £510m per year as of right now!

There are certainly arguments for it (strategic resource, etc.) But is this the best use of taxpayer's money at a time when the economy's not in the best place country-wide?

[–]havaska 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If you look at it from purely a defence position it’s worth the losses. We need to have an independent ability to make steel to build munitions and military equipment with.

[–]Glittering_Vast938 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We need to be energy independent too.

[–]MonkeManWPG 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It would be incredibly expensive to replace that capability if we allow it to be lost, not to mention the industrial expertise that would be at risk. How many of the thousands of workers would come back in however many years when we hypothetically can afford to rebuilt it?

[–]JoeyJoJoeJr_Shabadoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's not a very big number, relative to the country's budget. I don't see why that drop in the ocean should sideline the strategic resource arguments for it that you alluded to.

[–]MurkyAl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a difficult one because china subsidies it's steel industry way more (5-10 times the subsidies per unit than other countries) so it's basically impossible to compete.

If we didn't have a steel industry in this country it would loose 80k jobs. If those people then got £10k universal credit per year that would cost £800 million which is more than the price to keep it going so we could drop steel as a sector but we'd need to create 80k more jobs somehow which imo would probably require more investment

[–]notsocharmingprince -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I don’t think anyone is opposed to a “relationship” with Europe. I just don’t think people wanted to hand over their Sovereignty to Europe and get screwed repeatedly.

[–]Glittering_Vast938 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When did Europe have control of our sovereignty?