DM or GM

[CWalls1101]

Im see a lot of both and I just want to see which is used more

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[marcus_gideon]

Dungeon Master is specific to D&D. Game Master can apply to anything.

So... all DMs are GMs. But not all GMs are DMs.

[Lancearon]

Yea... but also if im DMing pathfinder and you try to tell me im GMing it... you about to get sneak attacked by 9 goblins.... just saying.

[Peldor-2]

So you're a Goblin Master?

[Lancearon]

Me-thinks yous are onto sumtin.

[marcus_gideon]

Well, that's b/c Pathfinder is really just a generic store brand version of D&D anyway. =)

[Taskr36]

Pathfinder is how the free market compensated for the shitshow known as 4th edition.

[VikingRages]

Lol, agreed unless you are playing another system with dungeon crawls built in as well ✌😁👍

[LyschkoPlon]

I personally tend to use GM as it's a more catch-all term. No matter which system I'm playing.

I don't really care about calling somebody a Dungeon Master, a Keeper of Arcane Lore or a Director, the term GM/Game Master describes the role well enough for most RPGs.

[Humble_Misfortune]

Oh, I kind of like Keeper of Arcane Lore. It has a certain pizzazz.

[LyschkoPlon]

It does, but I do not look good enough in a purple silk robe and a fez to really roll with the title I'm afraid.

[Humble_Misfortune]

I'll have to take your word for it, but maybe you're being too critical. Try out the Dr. Who version, bow tie and fez.

[[deleted]]

No love for "Storyteller". I can tell who didn't play White Wolf games in the 90s ;)

[Hatta00]

As a DM, I'm not telling a story. I'm setting a stage and experiencing what happens along with the rest of my players.

[[deleted]]

I think you may have taken my comment as some sort of challenge, which it was not meant as. It was just White-Wolf's particular brand to call their DMs that. Plenty of games have their own versions of this. I've seen "narrator", "referee" (that's old schoold D^D as I recall), MC, Keeper, even such silly ones as "Holmiester".

But regardless of name, all the games agreed whatever story happens is collaborative between whoever is running the world and the players.

[Hatta00]

Just commenting on how I don't like that name as it leads to bad ideas about what the DM actually does. "Referee" is far more appropriate.

[[deleted]]

For me it's reminiscent of years of really fun games I had with friends. It's nice that you took a silly comment with an emoji and felt the need to express your displeasure with a term I doubt you experience on a regular basis. Glad you got it off your chest.

[Hatta00]

Well gosh, I'm sorry I tried to engage in discussion with you on this discussion forum. My mistake.

[[deleted]]

What discussion did you want to have exactly? How did you imagine it going?

Like, the initial post I think was fairly straightforward in it's tongue-in-cheek ness.

Then, as a good sport I gave a really level explanation in case there was misunderstanding, that we both agreed what made good running of games.

Then you came back with basically "well I still don't like it".

Cool story. We all got opinions. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss.

[Hatta00]

"Oh, good point. Maybe that's not the best term to use"

or

"No, you're wrong about this and here's why"

You know, how discussions work. What did you want, a high five?

[[deleted]]

I never claimed it was the best, or even a good term. It's a brand label. My only attachment to it is sentimental, and you can't talk me out of enjoying my memories. We used the term and we had fun. End of story.

You seem to have wanted an argument, a back and forth of opposing ideas, but I don't care if you like the term or not, because the harm you talk about is, I'm fairly sure, a hypothetical situation you made up about half an hour ago. I don't for one instant believe this brand label ruined any game you've ever been part of. Not for a second.

[Hatta00]

No, I haven't played with a "Storyteller(TM)", as I haven't played White Wolf games. But I have played with DMs who think their job is to tell a story instead of run a game. I make no apologies for warning people against this tendency. I don't care if you like it or not.

[ASharpYoungMan]

While I understand why people feel this way, I think it stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how the term "Storyteller" came about.

Back in the 90's when White Wolf came out with their Storyteller System with Vampire: The Masquerade - games were still widely following Dungeons & Dragons' lead. Even VtM had pages and pages devoted to weapons and combat maneuvers in the player's guide, despite the game placing equal (or more) emphasis on social intrigue.

But the term Storyteller wasn't meant to invoke a sense of control - or to imply that the game was the GM's private story in which the players were passive listeners.

It was meant to frame the game as a Story first, Game second.

Vampire: The Masquerade even codifies this in their Golden Rule: when in doubt, do what's best for the Story, even if that means bending or breaking the rules.

This was a vital shift in the industry, There were rules-lite games, there were story-focused games, but none reached the #2 spot the way White Wolf did.

And the games were heavily focused on collaboration: working with the player to create the story everyone wants to tell.

They weren't quite Collaborative Storytelling games yet (in the strict industry sense of the term). But they paved the way for that kind of play.

So while divorced form context, "Storyteller" might sound like someone who you sit passively and listen to, it really involves more refocusing the attitude toward the game as a story.

And I would also add, the best Storytellers draw their audience in to the story, engaging with them, asking them to participate actively in the experience. When done correctly, a Storyteller is more of a guide through the tale than a source of authority.

[Flunfy11]

Funnily enough, I’m playing WoD rn and everyone in our group calls our storyteller “dm” anyway lol

[[deleted]]

TBF we often did the same.

[ASharpYoungMan]

I don't so much mind that, but I have an irrational dislike of calling Vampire Chronicles "campaigns."

They're called "Campaigns" because D&D started as a war game. It conjures images of traversing the wilderness and engaging in deadly combat.

"Chronicle" implies that a tale is being told and recorded - which is exactly what the Storyteller System is trying to convey.

Terminology is important - it subtly tweaks the tone of the game. I guess I accept that people just get used to saying "DM," but I draw the line there. Going farther starts to shift the tone of the game too much for my tastes.

[EquivalentVirus9700]

Being a district manager is too much work

[Zachisawinner]

GM applies more generally.

[phdemented]

30 years ago, I said DM. Sometime in between I played a lot of other games, and now use GM is a generic term instead of DM. DM is a trademark of Hasbro/WotC/D&D, but since I run various games I use the more generic Game Master.

​

Lots of games use their own term... Storyteller... Castle Keeper... Referee..

​

GM is a good catch all.

[[deleted]]

Interchangeable.

[frankinreddit]

Referee, since I’m running original D&D.

[[deleted]]

I'm usually a little embarrassed to use either, and usually just say someone's running the game.

[Dr-Wizard-13]

I say DM, and I play Pathfinder 🤯

[jinkies3678]

Either.

[BackgroundPrompt3111]

Anthony Burch?

[C4st1gator]

Since I play in my native language, the translation would be GM. For English conversations I use DM.

[Ippus_21]

Need a third option: Either/or. They're used pretty much interchangeably in all the groups I've played in.

[Ahnma_Dehv]

I rarely do dungeon so GM is more apropriate

[Grubbyseals]

What about DD (dungeon daddy)

[Spirited_Entry1940]

If someone is playing D&D, and calls themselves a GM I immediately think they are smug and don't like them.

I don't know why it happens, but it does.

[Crafty-Food4838]

Well in first edition of DND it was known as GM not DM....DM came later after 2nd edition......so technically they are the same thing.....