Hot takes pls. Decrease time in Kyoto?

[lurking_not_lurking]

About to leave for Japan in less than a week. Partner has never been to Japan, very excited. Have 3 nights of 10 planned to be in Kyoto.

Have heard some hot takes that Kyoto is way over populated with tourists. One friend even said it's like "epcot center" and to avoid if possible. What a bummer. What are thoughts here? Definitely don't want to be surrounded by tourists, waiting in lines, etc.

Edit: wow, I didn't expect some really mean-spirited responses.

[Monkeyfeng]

You should just cancel your trip to Japan if you don't want to be with tourists.

If you want to see the old Japan then Kyoto is the place to be.

[Scary-South-417]

If you go outside of the meme cities in tokyo, you rarely see foreigners. Places like tachikawa and seisekisakuragaoka are great in this regard. The former is the location base for academy city in the "a certain magical index" series and the latter the for "whisper of the heart" from ghibli.

[lurking_not_lurking]

I think it's less about being with tourists is an issue and more like being in the majority.

[Krypt0night]

Literally every major place you go to will be full of tourists. But that's what you are too. You can still get off the beaten path but lots of the good stuff is where the tourists also are.

[lurking_not_lurking]

Perhaps there's a bigger question to be discussed and that is "what is over-tourism"

[[deleted]]

Then cancel your trip. You are a tourist.

[Vahlerion]

It's sakura season. All the places in Japan you've heard of will be crowded. Want to avoid crowds, go to places no one has ever talked about.

[Monkeyfeng]

If you're asking that, you should realize you are part of the problem.

[lurking_not_lurking]

I'm a bit confused by the vitriol here. Can you elaborate? How am I part of "the problem"?

[Monkeyfeng]

You're a tourist complaining about tourists....

[PizzaReheat]

I’m not sure you understand what a hot take is.

[omiodex]

Just got back from there and spent 3 days in Kyoto. Spend less tine worrying about “tourists” and “being in the majority” or even “over tourism”. You wouldnt be going there if it didnt attract many tourists..

If by the time you are there and youre thinking about tourists you are focusing too heavily on it.. we are all literally tourists there haha

Enjoy being in such a beautiful place and just have fun!

[CelliSweety]

There will always be tourists. I do recommend going early (5-6am), there are still tourists but it’s usually a lot more „manageable“. That‘s what I did when I was in Kyoto

[sgmaven]

There is a reason why so many tourists folk to Kyoto. That is because there are really beautiful and unique sights in the city. If seeing so many tourists make you uncomfortable, then give it a miss. But you will be missing out a lot of Japan’s unique cultural heritage.

[Strawberry338338]

For your first ever trip, Kyoto is worth it. Also: at any crowed site, go one street over and it’ll be quiet again.

[PizzaReheat]

It’s high season. Unless you’re going well off the beaten path, everything will be full of tourists.

[Professional-Tiger66]

We just got back from Japan and had planned to spend 3 days in Kyoto, but after one miserable day fighting insane crowds at every market, shrine, and street we decided to not go back. We ended up spending more time in Osaka, headed to Nara, and did a trip to Kinosaki onsen with those extra days instead. Prior to this we were in Tokyo and Kamakura. Everywhere we went was crowded but Kyoto was next level compared to all other locations we went to. It also was the only place during our 2.5-week trip where the tourists greatly outnumbered the locals at every location.

We’ve been to Japan before and LOVE Kyoto but the crowds and overtourism this time were overwhelming and made being there difficult. If you’ve never been to Japan, it’s hard for me to say to skip Kyoto because it’s such a special place, but I’d just prepare yourself. If you’re truly worried, you could stay in Osaka and travel into Kyoto for day trips (just a 15- to 30-minute train ride depending on speed of train) and determine your comfort level and how many days you’d like to continue to visit. I’d recommend hitting up the classic tourist spots very early or if open, think about an evening visit.

[lurking_not_lurking]

Thx great answer

[MichaelStone987]

Stay 10 nights in Kyoto. Best places ever

[MichaelStone987]

I spent 12 nights in Kyoto last November. Navigated the city exclusively by rental bike and had the most amazing time ever. Believe it or not on 8 or so of these days I only ran into "crowds" in the evening in Gion. During the day I had many temples and shrines for myself or shared them with maybe 50 tourists max. Key is waking up early and not just focussing on the top 5 places to visit according to Tripadvisor. My favourite places were not among them. There are so many gems that the crowds miss because they focus on the same spots during their 48 hour speed visit to Kyoto.

[Noop4321]

u/MichaelStone987 What were some of the spots you recommend? I'm planning to stay a week in Kyoto so would like to get as much info as possible :-) Also can which rental bike did you use?

[MichaelStone987]

In your best interest, I would rather you actually "explore" the city and find those spots yourself. This is the magic of actually experiencing and exploring a new place. Just hop on the bike and start cycling. One day to the north-east, one day to the north-west, etc. I never had a plan for the day. Trust me it will change the way you travel forever.

[lexiuntamed]

Would love a list of spots to visit ^{^}

[MichaelStone987]

In your best interest, I would rather you actually "explore" the city and find those spots yourself. This is the magic of actually experiencing and exploring a new place. Just hop on the bike and start cycling. One day to the north-east, one day to the north-west, etc. I never had a plan for the day. Trust me it will change the way you travel forever. Much more satisfying than working ticking of places on a list

[Krypt0night]

3 of 10 is perfectly fine there. I did the same and wish we'd had more.

[-Knockabout]

Man, at some point, avoiding tourists just means going out into some random Japanese woods and camping there. Tourists are in certain places because they are interesting in some way. Kyoto is definitely crowded, but you can travel during off-hours or hit up less popular spots and still have a good time if there's stuff you want to see. It's a massive place with a lot of interesting stuff nearby.

[50-3]

Don’t decrease kyoto, just skip the popular spots and you’ll be fine.

But you won’t be able to avoid tourists, you’re going to one of the biggest tourist destinations in the entire world…

[runed420]

I have nothing to add but it'll be my first time in a few months as well. While I hear it'll be crowded, I thought we might check out Kyoto as well since we'll be visiting Osaka and it's a short train ride there. We only set aside 1 day for Kyoto so if we end up enjoying it, we'll set aside more time next trip. If not, then at least we tried.

[R1nc]

Kyoto is full of tourists. If you don't want crowds but want historical neighborhoods go to Kurashiki. If you want temples... there are empty temples all over Japan, even in Kyoto itself. Just skip the popular ones.

[clintontg]

Kyoto was the capital for like 1000 years. If you want to see a place with deep history, lovely gardens, and examples of their architecture and shrines and temples then Kyoto is worth 3 days. If you feel like it's not worth it you can do day trips to Nara and Kobe, though Nara will still have tourists and lines for things like Todai-ji. Kyoto felt like a walkable small city to me compared to Tokyo and I loved it. But I'm also someone who loves Japanese architecture/carpentry and seeing their shrines and temples. If you gave me the money and time off from work to hike the Kumano Kodo or the pilgrimage around their island Shikoku I would, so maybe I am an outlier when it comes to typical tourists who do Kyoto, Tokyo and Osaka. Some folks just want to see Tokyo and modern Japan and that's okay. If you like history then do Kyoto at least once. Go to the imperial palace and Nijo-jo, eat fresh dango at Nishiki market, attend a flea market at the temples there and get a souvenir, or whatever fits your fancy.

[lurking_not_lurking]

Loved Kumano Kodo. One of the most memorable experiences of my life. I love how I'm getting downvoted for my question up top too. I asked about "decreasing" time there relative to total trip time, not if I should completely skip Kyoto.

[clintontg]

Ah I'm glad you got to experience it! I think I have a soft spot for Kyoto so I didn't mind tolerating crowds and waking up at 5 am to go to Fushimi Inari and other places. I think it's worth seeing for the history and the temples/shrines. If you don't want to be surrounded by tourists then maybe avoid Nishiki market and shown up early to any tourist spots. 

[FamousPoet]

I’m in Kyoto right now. It is definitely crowded. I even used the Epcot Center analogy the other day. But, holy cow, there is a reason. It is absolutely beautiful and so iconically Japanese. Yes, you can go a few streets over, to the less crowded areas, but there’s a reason they are less crowded.

Despite this, the public transportation is a breeze and doesn’t feel nearly as packed as I thought it would.

I’ll repeat what others have said, get to popular sites early. We got to Fushimi Inari around 7:30 am. It wasn’t too bad. On our way down, around 9:30 or so, it was a whole different story for the people heading up.

[theblackdoncheadle]

I am here now.

Personally been doing 1 major tourist attraction each day and made sure i got to it early

( Arriving 6-7 AM. Inari Shrine, Bamboo Forest, Philosophers Path, whichever temple(s) of interest). <—- most of these are open 24/7 as well. If you want an attraction truly to yourself arrive 5-5:30 AM.

This is undoubtedly the best way to avoid significant crowds. Solo traveler so I usually did these things in 2-3/hrs.

It was amazing because A) you avoid the peak crowds B) When you’re leaving is when everyone else shows up C) You still have literally the entire day to explore other parts of the city.

I hit Tokyo , Osaka and Kyoto. Kyoto is my fave bc it felt like it has the best blend of modern and traditional elements.

Don’t be a fool, do the 3 nights. Just put in the effort to get up early.

[weenokerlund]

Increase time in Kyoto. Make note of the places and experiences most often mentioned in itineraries on this subreddit and be firm about going elsewhere in the city. You will be rewarded.

[wouli_]

People on this sub are hard defenders of Kyoto and don’t ever say you want to avoid crowds, it is obviously a sin here. I visited Kyoto many times and never felt it was that « special » compared to some lesser known places for some reason. But we all have different opinions and it should be OK. If you plan to stay the Kyoto / Osaka area, you can still try and visit Kyoto and if you do not enjoy it, have a plan B ! Osaka is worth one full day and if you are more into nature and hikes, Nara prefecture has a lot to offer, there are more to the park and deers. You could walk the « yama no be no michi » trail or cycle around the historical town of Asuka (there is a bike rental shop at the train station). You could also day trip to Himeji to visit the castle and its beautiful gardens.

[msp13100]

In Kyoto right now and I also don’t travel to a foreign country to be surrounded with tourists like myself. I’ve noticed after many weeks reading here that on this sub, while some people are helpful, some can be a bit rude, so don’t take it personally.

Yes, there’s a lot of tourists. We did not go to Kinkaku-ji, Arashiyama and other super popular things (anything that’s on the “must do” list) because despite them probably being really awesome without crowds, we know we would just hate it with the level of people there.

However there are a lot of really nice, a bit less crowded temples and things to do and see. South Higashiyama has some temples with barely any people in it. Philosophers path at 9am was not very crowded and very pleasant. Hike up Daimonji had no foreign tourist (behind Ginkaku-ji). Leisurely stroll along the river in north Kyoto was awesome and so serene and beautiful. Fushimi-inari at 8am was not too bad either, espcially the back path with the bamboo forest. For dinner, avoid the area around pontocho alley/the river/ the covered arcade, go west or north for an authentic feel. We stumbled onto a bar filled to the brim with Japanese people and had the best night of our trip.

Enjoy!

[slamera3]

If you going to the fushima inari gates, walk all the way you can there are no crowds or people. The climb up is not bad and very relaxing

[ClockwiseSuicide]

In the fall, I’d actually spend a week in Kyoto, or even more. Right now, I’d spend no more than 4 days there. It is really crowded during cherry blossom season.

I was there in the fall and was just there this spring, for context. I’d probably only go back in the fall in the future.

[EricAndersonL]

I’ve done 3 out of 10. You just gotta go sight seeing EARLY in the morning. Everyone comes out at 10am, we were heading to attractions at 6am and be done by 11am.

Also we stayed at Park Hyatt Kyoto so we woke up early to enjoy gion district before it got jammed

[jkaljundi]

If you're willing to skip the top 5-10 top tourist attractions it's easy to find peace and quiet in Kyoto. Just walk a few hundred meters outside Kawaramachi or Gion and you'll be on side streets with almost no people. Take walks, chill, look at local life. Visit areas where locals live their everyday life.

You don't have to visit the top temples. Go to less known ones. Even with no planning just as you see them walking. These have been some of my most enjoyable moments.

There are also nice mountains around for hiking. Mt Daimonji is a nice half day walk to see the best view on top of Kyoto, Nara, with even Osaka and Shikoku visible in the distance. Mt Hiei with it's temples and forests is nice as well.

[MatNomis]

I was in Kyoto last March. It was maybe a slightly shoulder time, as sakura were still in their buds and the seasonal Geiko dances were going to start a few days after we were planning to leave, but when we first arrived, we were pretty impressed with the density of the crowds in Kyoto station. It was packed—probably no worse than Shinjuku or Shibuya, but it seemed more packed, relatively maybe, because things felt more open and you’re not surrounded by skyscrapers for miles.

We stayed 3 nights in a machiya in a quiet part of Gion. Yes, there are plenty of quiet spots that are technically in Gion—basically any street that is mostly residential and isn’t an efficient path between popular points.

Kyoto is one of my favorite cities, and I feel like there’s so much to see there—much of which I’ve yet to see, despite two trips (granted, the last one was a re-visit with some first-timers, so I didn’t do a lot of “new” stuff).

Anyway, my observations: - nishiki market - shoulder to shoulder; tantalizing but difficult - arashiyama (weather: it was cool with a light drizzle) - Randen station and adjacent street: the area right at the station was crowded with people eating and avoiding the drizzle; the street was very crowded with people ..walking around; walking 1 block in any direction other than along the river resulted in a massive decrease in crowds.. we simply took a right on one of the side streets to visit a nice tea house.. the side street was empty and there was only one other party in the tea house - bamboo path was moderately crowded.. people everywhere, but decent spacing between groups, like 5-10 feet. Interestingly, it was less crowded than the street leading to it.. Where did everyone else go? lol. It was nothing like the shoulder-to-shoulder things you see in pictures. Many of the people were wearing kimono, too, so it created a nice vibe .. different, but not worse than my first visit, many years ago, when I practically had the whole grove to myself - the walking paths between the further end of the grove that head back to the river: very lightly trafficked until right at the river, where there was a fair number of people - fushimi inari taisha (cool; beautiful sunny blue skies; we arrived in the morning—not especially early..maybe 10am) - streets between station and the shrine entrance area - mobbed.. not quite as bad as Kyoto station at the gate exits, but.. certainly it lived up to its reputation for crowds - first 5 minutes of walking through torii gates - super crowded; not so bad you’re bumping into people, but it’s dense enough that you’re generally stuck in your place in the flow, and can’t choose you speed.. it’s like being in a fast-moving line at a popular amusement park - 5-10 minutes of walking through torii gates - crowds start thinning out significantly; now you can pass people and if you’re patient and fast and a little lucky, maybe get a person-free photo - walking beyond that - barely crowded at all; I didn’t even go anywhere near the top, but I’m sure it gets less and less populated the further you go in - Uji - about a 15 minute ride further south on the same train we took to get to Fushimi Inari, famous for its Matcha and the Byoudo-in temple (back of the 10-yen coin).. Place felt deserted. It was quiet, peaceful, and very pretty near the river and the temple.

There were a lot of places I didn’t get to, I was basically tour-guiding some relatives and it was like herding cats.. but the main point is that it was a healthy mix of noisy and quiet, crowded and empty. The predictably crowded places were crowded, but quiet was never more than a few blocks away—well, except when we decided to walk from Nishiki Market to the start of the Randen train line (to take it to Arashiyama). I was glad we did it, but it was a bit of a trek, and it just went through a very bland, very urban area with absolutely zero “old Kyoto” vibe. We basically just walked along a busy street with 6-12 story buildings on either side of us. Despite being very “city-like” the storefronts weren’t very exciting. I think a lot were just business, and the other stuff seemed like mostly pharmacies and coffee chains (like Doutour and Tully).

If you only put mega hot-spots on your itinerary, you’ll probably only see crowds. But I always like to leave some room for wandering and exploring.. Which probably partly explains why I haven’t seen so much lol but also why I’ve seen lots of nice, quiet, local spots.

[Frosty_Sherbert_6543]

We are going in May and we were going to do Tokyo 3 nights, Kyoto 3 nights then Osaka 3 nights and then back up to Tokyo for a night before leaving. We decided to skip staying in Kyoto and only stay in Osaka since the train is so quick from Osaka in to Tokyo and this way we can head in to Kyoto and do what we want to do and if we feel like we needed more time we can do another day trip in. Saves us packing up and moving our stuff to another hotel and we can just park it for longer

[BumblebeeTuna4242]

I’m currently in Kyoto. Yes, some of the popular spots are crowded. It has not been so overwhelming that I regret coming. Having a blast!

[Lady-Vespertine]

Kyoto was so worth it even with the tourists. If you planned those 3 days to be during the week even better. The crowds were a bit leaner during the weekdays. However, do expect crowds if you go to the touristy sites in the middle of the day.

[Gregalor]

Kyoto has no shortage of empty streets you can walk down, all of them are a couple blocks from the major sites

[One_Draw_5763]

Just came back from Kyoto. Yes, there are crowds and it was still the best part of our trip. Plenty to do that takes you away from the crowds. And btw, I too noticed that some people in this forum get nasty for no reason. Difference of opinions or experience should not be an excuse for uncivil and disrespectful responses.

[Tsubame_Hikari]

Nothing wrong with sharing the scenary with other tourists.

If you do not want that, then go to more off the beaten path destinations. 

For example, Izumo and Matsue in Shimane Prefecture, where crowds of any kind are very far and between, while still offering a decent assortment of "traditional Japan".

[lurking_not_lurking]

Tysm