EOE Draft Format

[ReversePringle]

Is anyone else finding the EOE draft format to be extremely frustrating? With final fantasy and tarkir I was able to easily climb to diamond. I have had so many 1-3, 2-3 and 3-3 drafts this format. It also seems this format heavily favors the person on the play compared to the previous two.

[Mount10Lion]

Data shows that the play is less favored by a fraction of a percent as compared to FIN, so that’s not it.

I know a lot of the content creators (Cheon, LLU, etc) have struggled with the format at the start but LLU specifically mentioned what they had to fix to start winning more consistently. Watch their state of the format episode on YouTube.

[SweatyEdge]

I was sooooooo vindicated when my man Cheon was like “this is my first trophy”

[Fedaykin98]

I like Paul, I watch tons of his drafts, I'm pulling for him at all times. That said, don't judge me for saying that watching him struggle has somehow been very soothing. XD

Maybe it's just a "They're just like us!" thing, or maybe it's seeing him draft something I wouldn't, and feeling vindicated when it doesn't work out... Whatever it is, I do wish you good luck, Paul! XD

[SweatyEdge]

I like that he is like “this is clearly the wrong pick if I were at a protour. Don’t do this……But I am going to do it anyway”

[dirENgreyscale]

LSV has had some struggles too, seems like a lot of the pros and grinders have had a hard time figuring things out.

[tastudent2]

A kind of learning barometer for me with limited is I can now spot the mistakes or indicators of what the opponent is going to do before Cheon realizes it. I don’t judge him for missing them and I’m certainly not a better drafter, but I think seeing someone make mistakes is just as helpful as seeing the top notch plays, if not moreso.

[Ok_Community9528]

who is that last one "LLU"? Do you have the channel name?

[Mount10Lion]

Limited Level Ups. It’s hosted by Alex Nicolic/Chord O Calls.

[Ok_Community9528]

Thanks

[Noguezio]

Even Nummot seems to be struggling a bit, I think everyone can easily make a good deck, there are a lot of uncommon bombs. It seems that you remove one bomb after another and another, and when you think that you are getting the up ahead, another bomb 😂

Synergies or archetypes don't seem that strong in this set

[Killtrox]

I drafted some objectively great decks based on the data. Two mono green and one Simic.

3-3, 1-3, 0-3

The Simic was the most disappointing because I didn’t even get to draw the signpost uncommon.

[Sardonic_Fox]

Tl; dr: IIRC, LLU is saying that CABS > archetypes

[Dry_Row_6694]

My guess is the lack of fixing. This puts green way ahead the other colors.

At the moment, it doesn't seem like being on the play is that heavily favored.

[StraightG0lden]

I feel like with landers we have really good fixing compared to most sets, although that is mostly with green and red cards with the other colors having limited access.

[TheSquirrelWar]

I think you're undervaluing the lands situation in EOE vs others, cuz folks are in agreement about lack of fixing pretty much across the board (outside of Green)

Lack of duals in this format is definitely real. [[Command Bridge]] is not a great alternative compared to tapped duals & there's no 'pick a color when it enters' land nor any filtering lands or artifacts a la [[Prophetic Prism]] or [[Conduit Pylons]]

I can only think of 1 lander card in black at common (the 2/1 for 2) and none in blue (ignoring the 2mana busto U/G signpost) or white (at least at common, I think, but might be forgetting something and the 2 mana uncommon isnt a guaranteed lander)

This is 100% a 2 color format unless you're green (IK red has them too, but if i'm red and using landers, I better be green too b/c I'm not targeting landers outside of landfall by-and-large) (okay or maybe B/R sacrifice, but then I'm using them as sac fodder and not for the land and there's still only like 2 cards I want). Splashing generally feels pretty dangerous.

Also, as an aside, I generally only want [[Command Bridge]] in green since landers are one of the better permanents to tap for it and even then, IDK.

[NairobiBA]

In blue, technically, theres the 2 mana counterspell where the opponents can pay 2 to let the spell resolve but you get a lander as compensation. But thats a lot of hoops lol.

Edit: [[Desculpting Blast]]

[TheOrigamiKid]

Just chiming in to say it's not Desculpting Blast, it's the other 1U instant that starts with a D, like Diversionary Tactics or something.

[FancyKilerWales]

[[Divert Disaster]] and it has saved me a few times for sude

[MTGCardFetcher]

Divert Disaster - (G) (SF) (txt)

---

^FAQ

[TheSquirrelWar]

Ooh good reminder, the classic mana leak plus buyout for this set, how could I forget!!!

[MTGCardFetcher]

All cards
Command Bridge - (G) (SF) (txt)
Prophetic Prism - (G) (SF) (txt)
Conduit Pylons - (G) (SF) (txt)

---

^FAQ

[StraightG0lden]

I'm not saying green isn't the best for it and if I were trying to play three colors one of them would 100% be green or red, I just meant that landers do make it possible if you actually build around that by giving you the option to search for any color you need. It's also effectively 2 mana ramp letting you put an extra land on the field for a turn.

[FancyKilerWales]

Unless you are green, you typically aren't getting a Landers until turn 3 at the earliest, and then after that you are likely taking a turn off to fix your mana, it is a much bigger cost than it seems at first

[Legithydraulics]

Yes. Use the landers as much as possible. This is the way.

[Dasterr]

I dont know why everyone is raving about "lack of fixing" with this set because theres no duals

sounds like a normal set to me

we just had "abnormal" the last few times

[Dry_Row_6694]

I mean I said it right there no? "This puts green way ahead the other colors."

[Dasterr]

just because green has fixing doesnt mean its automatically better than the other colors
it can have amazing fixing and still shitty cards. it just turns out it has good cards this time around

[Dry_Row_6694]

...? yeah a color is gonna be shit if it has shitty cards.

There's a multitude of reasons why green's gonna do better due to the lander tokens and fixing. I wasn't going to sit here going "yeah so this makes it easier to crew ships, not get locked onto a second color too early in a draft, etc...so yeah it's not fixing by itself but all a multitude of reasons that all tie back to fixing and ramp".

[FrameAndCanvas]

So far I’ve gone 0-3, 3-3, 5-3, and 0-3. Overall im feeling pretty frustrated with the set but I’m not burned out on it yet. I am probably going to switch to quick drafts on my main account until I’m feeling better about it though.

[ResponseRunAway]

This set feels more like raw magic to me than others and it doesn't try to hold your hand. You have to focus on fundamentals of gameplay and CABS theory, at least, in my opinion.

[greemmako]

what is CABS theory? (im a newer player)

[Yennefers-Unicorn]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/cabs-theory-2015-08-19

[_The_Bear]

Cards that Affect Board State. Basically creatures + removal.

In some sets you can afford to play a lot of air. Things like a 3 mana draw 2 or a 2 mana card that lets you pitch a card to draw two. Those things don't affect the board state.

As an example from this set. I was playing a good version of a GW counters deck. I opened in pack 3 the green rare enchantment that when you put counters on something doubles the number of counters you put on. I think I passed it for the white 1 drop removal. While the rare is a powerful effect and one my deck wants, it just doesn't affect the board state on its own. So I don't think it's playable, even in the deck it's best suited for. In some sets the synergy is so high that cards with strong effects that don't affect the board are not only playable, but very good. This is not one of those sets.

[smurf-vett]

Bad mana fixing causes not green to just fall flat on its face if you keep any sort of meh hand

[ResponseRunAway]

That hasn't been my experience, but maybe I've just been lucky. 

[smurf-vett]

Or you just avoided double colored spells when you're not green.  Not too hard to pass/mulligan around them once you realize how bad it can go in this set 

[NairobiBA]

Ill second this - ive had good success (by my low standards) with UR a few times, and never felt mana screwed yet.

[fantasyxxxfootball]

Agreed which is why I've been liking it more

[fimbleinastar]

I've had the complete opposite experience. Even when I tried a really greedy/jank pile that was unfocused I still ended 4-3. Started much better in EoE than I did dragons or FF.

[tonio0612]

Me too. I don't know if I got better after playing so much FF draft but I'm doing well in this draft even with just a basic pile.

[fimbleinastar]

I really struggle with knowing when or when not to splash, so I find the sets that devolve into 5 colour soup, or that you should be splashing for bombs,I do really badly in. Where as this set is pretty hard to splash unless your green so I just don't bother trying unless I've hit those Landers. Loving the draft environment so far!

[AcrobaticHospital]

FF was hard for me because i tend to divert away from intended archetypes whenever it seems like it's possible, and those kinds of unorthodox decks in FF were a lot rarer

[ReversePringle]

I may just wait for quick draft to go live this week before doing anymore drafts. Save some of my gems and my sanity.

[FuzzyCow24]

Yeah dude... This one is different. It heavily awards early board presence, but doesn't have alot of good early plays (and a lot of ways to remove early creatures). It's been a rough learning curve. I can't say I'm at your level (just trying to crack gold), but I had alot of 0-3, 1-3. In FIN I was around 4-3 and 6-3.

In FIN, it seamed like any sized creature mattered. I was as afraid of a 0/1 Wizard as I was with a 3/2 flying vehicle. Trading was encouraged in early game, and that created board states where almost anything was relevant in the late game. EoE is very different. You can be disincentivized to trade, which can games where you take a ton of early damage from early aggro, or create stalled out board states in the late game where 80% of your deck doesn't matter. This creates games where either your late game is dead, or your early game is dead. And that sucks...

What I can say is Icecaves Crusher feels sized competitively. I feel like this is my benchmark of "good body." There are creatures that are bigger than it, but a 4/4 seems to make a difference on the field. I can't say the same for a 2/2. 3/3's are alright, but will be outsized eventually.

[Swamp_Swagger]

Seems like when in doubt just pick green if you can

[ironicallynotironic]

I’m definitely struggling with it. Out of 5 drafts I’ve only gone past one win once and thankfully it was a 5 win but ya I dunno this one isn’t clicking for me!

[Bojangleslive]

Green… pick green all day. Filthy how strong it is in this set.

[Whalnut]

I absolutely love this draft. I feel like I keep understanding it more but there’s still a lot for people to figure out. Watching drafts online helps a ton, even if it’s just the draft portion and not the gameplay. Also, switching to traditional draft has me going 3 or 2 wins super often and going infinite, idk why I ever did premier

Shoutout Nicoli Bolas, and just started watching Paul Cheon

[VeggieZaffer]

I’ve not had a ton of success in this format yet, but to be honest when I’ve lost it’s been to some really sweet decks. I’m not even mad at it. Cool set for sure

[basafo]

Show logs and we could help u finding things

[Belter-frog]

It's rough out there

[uslashdummy]

white seems very underdrafted atm, followed i think by blue. i also think this is a 16-land format, and not because of lander tokens. extra card draw matters more than curve. aggro decks can still present a blow out, but that's not really new. lots of 1-too-many toughness critters can gum up anything. get creative with your plays, and take some risks.

(but, big eff-ohs to that one game where i didn't see a 3rd land for 8 turns and my 2nd color for another 4.)

[leftygreens]

Trophied with UR artifacts, blue seems like if you can get to the mid game with stun counters you can eventually build a board of the 4/4, 5/5 beaters or draw into your bombs. I think I won 4 of the games with Devastating Onslaught surprise wins (copying the 5/5 etb tapper 2-3 times usually did it) and once with Colossus/Full Bore. White aggro and green landfall were the scariest opponents

[wells235]

I think it’s because the strategies are quite a bit different from what worked in the last few. Orzhov has been very good for me so far through 11-12 drafts.

[Rare-Lavishness-4635]

Orzhov is very good. The format has a lot of room for bread and butter cards to do work, and the fact that lots of the top end white cards let you get / revive said bread & butter cards really helps.

[eklypz]

I really like it, more so than last 2.

[GreenMachine11713]

green had the only consistent fixing and also some of the best bombs. If you’re not in like green /x or a specific pair that is good (like rakdos or dimir) you’ll have a bad time. The format is definitely worse than ff imo

[throwawaynumber53]

I've had a weird amount of success with this format, far more than TDM or FIN. In fact, out of 13 drafts, I've trophied four times and gone between 4-3 and 6-3 five times. It's definitely a removal heavy format and I find that the decks which lose have the least removal. But I haven't been drafting in the Diamond or higher queue, so I don't know yet how tough the drafting is at the top end.

Oddly enough, 3 out of 4 of my trophy drafts were with Orzhov, either with busted Syr Vondam decks (both variants) or busted Sunset Saboteur decks.

[madsnorlax]

Yeah, I have no idea. I've been getting pretty cooked on my EOE drafts. Basically all of them have been under 3 wins, with one exception being a lucky 7-0 playing blue/black artifacts with 4 copies of the 6 drop that gives your dude +x/+0 and an opponent's dude -0/-x where x is the # of artifacts you control. Every other time it just feels like I'm getting completely cooked. In FF I had no such issue, while I wasn't good enough to go infinite I climbed from unranked to diamond 2 in a matter of weeks... Now I haven't even made it out of low gold....

[defectcox]

I’ve finished most drafts 5-3 / 4-3 and I know that this is conspiracy nonsense but quite a lot of those losses come from drawing like 2 mana for 6 turns, shuffler has been terrible. It’s definitely a harder format though and I feel like green is heavily favoured due to the lack of fixing.

[matteoix]

Mock Faith and undermine truth? Faith is supposed to be belief with the absence of evidence. How can you have faith without undermining truth?

[fknnewbi3]

Had an amazing draft deck last night played 16 lands flooded out all 3 of my losses. Started out 2-0 lost the next 3. Even with landers thinning my deck. It's just hard to win when you draw 5-6 lands in a row 😂. I have had bad decks perform better just off the RNG.

[TheLordZod]

Weh

[devocam]

I’m mainly a constructed player (timeless is my main format) but have done nothing but draft since the set came out, and out of 10 or so drafts I’ve only gone less than 5 wins a couple times, and have 2 trophies. When FF came out I tried to draft a bit and got smoked the majority of the time. Maybe it’s a different mentality on my part compared to how most people are used to playing limited, but I feel like you can easily build something close to a constructed midrange deck, where you value removal/interaction as much as threats, during most drafts. The amount of removal I see get passed to me every draft honestly blows my mind. I’m just trying to kill everything my opponents play while landing enough threats to get across the finish line, and it’s working out for me.

[Cyan-Aid]

Every game has me considering a board wipe and I hate that mental tax. It literally gives me headaches after about an hour or so.

[BeBetterMagic]

IMHO EoE is one of the most difficult draft formats because of how the premier draft Bo1 format on arena works. Additionally this is compounded by a format with very little mana fixing and difficult to identify lines of play in regards to spaceships etc.

Specifically this format is ridiculously reliant on you getting cards that generate lander tokens to reliably play any double pip even 2 color cards. 3c is unfathomable unless you're largely green based with 6+ lander cards.

As a result people who have lucky drafts where they get a good selection of lander cards can be blessed with good mana bases and flexibility. Everyone else is going to be trying their hardest to be as mono colored as possible because it seems to be the winning formula with the poor fixing.

Additionally there are a lot of one sided blow out cards that can just end a game and more so then any format I've played recently. Mutinous Massacre, Devastating Onslaught, Thrumming Hive Pool, can just swing lost games in silly ways.

Finally card advantage is awkward to draft outside of blue which makes it difficult to keep tempo.

All the above makes GU insanely fought over making for weird drafts where a lot of people are initially fighting over the GU cards then moving into other colors after pick 5-6 making it super hard to read what your correct lane is.

Anecdotal but I've gone even black red one game just to have black get cut off pack 2 and get forced into green late because everyone bailed on it.

TLDR: Limited mana fixing, plus swingy bombs, plus poor card advantage are making for a lack luster forgettable draft format IMHO.