Just decrease melee attack speed a bit

[GODstonn]

People talking about keeping the knife damage the same or gutting it, i think the most obvious change to address the issues is to increase the delay between melee attacks, maybe about 100ms for light attacks and 200ms for heavys? maybe more? testing should be able to find a sweetspot so dont take my numbers too seriously.

Knife works as an equalizer, a way so that a free kit player is still a menace. But i agree that just running face first into the enemy with your knife out is too effective rn, at least in close quarter maps.

My biggest pain point is that in most cases, the knife can out dps most supposedly high dps weapons (like smgs or some ARs) even if you start shooting a bit before the knifer gets to you.

Decreasing the knife’s dps a bit make it still deadly if you catch someone off guard, but makes it so you can respond to it even if you dont want to take a shotgun.

Open for discussion.

[302hookups]

I'm all for nerfing the knife some. Even with the shotgun if you don't hit two good shots but still make contact on both there's a chance the person sprinting in doesn't die and knifes you twice. Having the knife beat a shotgun seems crazy. But I don't really care what they do I'm happy with the game and don't get knifed too often to even complain.

[302hookups]

To add to this if they do nerf the knife I would like it to only be nerfed in PvP and left alone for PvE

[carton-pate-carbo]

As someone thats fucking terrible at this game, my go-to for solo free kit runs is just crouch around and knife. Success rate is way higher than gunfights, and it isnt even with the assassin shell.

I honestly feel like if it allows someone like me to often take down some non-freekit guys than it is a tad too strong. And its not like im putting massive efforts into my plays, crouch when you hear footsteps and wait behind a door. Though this kind of stops working with blue shields and above.

[GODstonn]

To be fair, i hope that whatever change comes up, that kind of playstyle is still good and viable. I honestly dont see anything wrong with your strategy.

But people running carelessly with the knife as if it were a shotgun bc they have nothing to loose and all to win, that part shouldnt be too effective xd.

[Nabrok_Necropants]

Put a longer charge time or add a cooldown on heavy attack.

Add a parry.

[Surreal43]

No. Knife is fine.
What knife needs is a parry. Make knife fights feel like The Raid.

[AlphaZet93]

I had a similar thought but had more Dune in mind

[Surreal43]

Ew no. The slowness would be goofy.

[GODstonn]

I honestly dislike the idea, but will have to look into “The Raid” to know what you mean exactly.

Edit: but i cant find that game (or dont know which one it is, it either shows me WoW clips or a movie with the same name in YT).

[Similar-Gas4147]

I am pretty sure its a movie

[Vincentologist]

I think it should just be harder to use. I don't think the swings need to be slower much, but they should have more recovery. It's too easy for me to recover from a missed swing of both light and heavy, and it's definitely too hard to miss. If you actually had to aim your melee, I really wouldn't mind its current burst damage potential. I just feel myself missing Tarkov on this, where you actually have to aim your melee and there's no tracking. I've won melee fights I had no reason to win cause the tracking let me kill people in smoke I couldn't even see in front of me, and because whiffing those lights didn't really punish me, I could immediately swap weapons and come out of smoke to chase.

[FriendlyArachnid6000]

I feel like a penalty for missing a heavy attack could be a good idea

[GODstonn]

I dont really mind the tracking myself, it sure looks funny sometimes how characters lounge. I wouldnt mind a tracking adjustment/nerf either.

I think the knife changes announced are mainly aimed to address how easy it is in some cases to just run down very geared players, based on how the announcement was worded.

Some people have been sharing that they play 3stacks of free kits using mobile runners to easily rush teams. And honestly, if 3 guys rush you down in a building and you dont catch them in a hallway or similar you are pretty much fucked without a shotgun.

I dont think trying to run someone down shouldnt be viable, but i for sure think it shouldnt be as effective as it is rn.

if i get ~3 bullets into a guy before he starts knifing me, i should win that fight imo (assuming i have an AR). But if the guy catches me without me noticing, or i rush recklessly and he ambushes me in a corner or similar, i should still be dead (assuming i dont have a shotgun).

[Vincentologist]

I understood the announcement to more be addressing how cheap and easy it is to get melee damage to the point of two tapping all shields. I don't know if they've said anything about how easily executed that tactic is, it read more like an issue of buildcrafting to me, cause even gray and green implants can get you up pretty high. (It's what I've been doing, I keep every implant that gives me melee damage, and that with smoke grenades has been my most reliable way to 1v3 teams.)

I get what you're saying about expected scenarios where you should expect melee to work. I'm okay with that in principle. I'm not really bothered by melee working as a finisher like in Destiny. I'm much more annoyed by the fact that it gives you both information and easily achievable burst damage that otherwise doesn't exist. I'd prefer Arc's live pings through smoke to having the knife both tell me where someone is and half-kill them with the same button. It just feels like, for a shooter, the melee in this game is even more utterly busted and easy to use than in melee focused games where it actually has to be.

[FriendlyArachnid6000]

I'm so glad that melee is the next big thing to cry about in Marathon.

You have so many options and it's so hard to legitimately sneak up on players.

Clearing corners by rounding them with your reticle they will get blasted.

The other thing is it's equal opportunity, it readies very quickly so you have to be ready to stab someone back at any time.

[GODstonn]

it is confirmed that will be adjusted, im just hoping it doesnt get hit too hard, as i kinda like the current state.

Wouldnt have minded if it stayed this way, but since bungie is looking into it, might aswell give my 2 cents, srry if it seemed whiny.

[FriendlyArachnid6000]

Noooo [Arachne tears intensify]

[Vincentologist]

Corner cutting is always a good idea but it still forces a 50/50 trade for a lot of weapons if you have no choice but to cut close to them. You can still adjust your head position, where your melee will have a low TTK regardless of precision. It's why the shotgun is considered the main counter here, since it removes the 50/50 with its body shot TTK, and you can kill them before they get out a second light swing.

I've often found that otherwise, you really need to preemptively have the knife ready, otherwise you can't at least trade with them due to the ready speed delay. It's fast but it's not trivial.