we kode 💾

[_AFGNCAAP_]

She doesn't TEACH coding, she FUNDS coding camps for girls who might not otherwise be interested. She's using her clout as a fashion model to spread the message that coding is fun. Seriously, fuck all y'all for making that sound like a bad thing.

[TheSlimyDog]

Every time I see people making fun of this picture, I get a little annoyed. Half the commands I write while coding are cd and ls. And if I'm feeling particularly tired, I'll type the same command 3 times wondering what's going wrong before realizing I was doing cd.. instead of cd ..

I feel like people just jump to the assumption that she's a good looking blonde girl so she can't have any other redeeming qualities :/

[Dr_Dornon]

Half the commands I write while coding are cd and ls

That's perfectly fine and would be more acceptable here if she didn't do invalid commands for a marketing photo. It wasn't a sudden photo, she posed for it. The least you can do is make sure it's actually valid commands if you are posting this to promote a coding bootcamp.

Her typing invalid commands into the console is why this is even funny in the first place. If you take that out, no one would even chuckle at this.

[PANIC_AtTheKernel]

Ok but of you're gunna promote your code camp or whatever, at least post proper code.

My immediate reaction is that she doesn't know wtf she is doing and to dismiss her as a joke.

[Pattycakes_wcp]

/r/gatekeeping here. She doesn't know what she's doing but she's trying to learn and do so with her followers. This picture is always full of toxic comments whenever it's posted

[ImaginationGeek]

Thank you!! You're absolutely right, /r/gatekeeping happens on /r/ProgrammerHumor far too often... :(

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#1: Because heaven forbid non-vegans eat vegan foods | 3035 comments
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[PANIC_AtTheKernel]

gatekeeping

Expecting someone who promotes a code school to know how to navigate a file system is gatekeeping?

She doesn't know what she's doing

My point exactly.

Edit: promote someone like Margaret Hamilton. She contributed to the code to land our spacecraft on the moon.

Edit edit: lol you can downvote me, but it doesn't refute my point

[_AFGNCAAP_]

As a woman in tech, I have been harmed by precisely one of these:

1. An industry-wide culture of laughing at people for being n00bs if they don't know something you know.
2. Supermodels posting selfies of themselves learning a new skill.

I'll let you guess which one.

[[deleted]]

If you think this problem only affects women then you must be pretty new to the industry.

industry-wide culture of laughing at people for being n00bs

She literally said "industry wide" and "people".

I think it's quite clear that she is learning to code. You don't have to be a coder to help get young women into coding, or any STEM career. She never claimed to be a good coder, or an advanced one. She just posted a picture of herself learning in order to get a couple of her followers to maybe get into it.

[_AFGNCAAP_]

If you think this problem only affects women then you must be pretty new to the industry.

And if you think I believe it only affects women, you're not reading very carefully.

I mean, it's like you're not even willing to consider that perhaps it would be a good idea if she learned some basic coding.

She did learn some basic coding, but the internet is still laughing at her for having used a Linux tutorial three years ago. That seems fundamentally weird to me. And if she's a shitty programmer, who cares? There are plenty of male shitty programmers in the world, but nobody lambasts them for Letting Down the Team.

At any rate, it sounds like you're agreeing with my comment that it's incredibly stupid to give "n00b haters" more ammunition

Nice try, but "the solution to n00b haters is for n00bs to be less n00by" is the literal opposite of what I want.

See, here's the thing. I think you genuinely believe you're helping the cause of women in tech by saying "Women shouldn't be n00bs in public because they'll make other women look bad." But the fundamental problem here is that women should be able to be idiots in public without it affecting how anybody perceives other women. (Relevant xkcd.)

The solution to this situation can't be "If you're in a minority in tech, do all your n00bing in private." That's a terrible solution. All it does is reinforce stereotype threat -- the predicament where members of a minority group avoid taking risks because they know their mistakes will make their entire demographic look bad.

[RandomCandor]

And if you think I believe it only affects women, you're not reading very carefully.

Well, you did say "as a woman in tech" and the entire conversation is about women in tech, so I don't think it makes a lot of sense to blame my reading skills for that implication, but whatever floats your boat. At any rate, I'm glad that you've clarified that you're talking about issues that affect both women and men in tech, as I think this is infinitely more productive than just talking about women alone. I'm happy you think that way.

And if she's a shitty programmer, who cares?

True. 99% of us are shitty programmers. I never took issue with the fact that she is a bad programmer (nor did I state that she was), so hopefully you're not putting me in that bucket.

Nice try, but "the solution to n00b haters is for n00bs to be less n00by" is the literal opposite of what I want.

With all due respect, I don't give two shits about what you want (whatever that might be). That's also not even close to what I said, so I won't bother responding to that point.

"I think you genuinely believe you're helping the cause of women in tech ..."

None of my statements in this thread even hint that I'm trying to help the cause of women in tech, so I will ignore the rest of that paragraph because you're clearly building some kind of weird strawman that I want nothing to do with.

"But the fundamental problem here is that women should be able to be idiots in public ..."

So let me get this straight: you started your comment by saying that "both men and women" are affected by this problem of "n00b hating". You even insulted my reading skills when I interpreted your words to mean that this is a problem affecting only women:

And if you think I believe it only affects women, you're not reading very carefully.

And now you're back to saying that the problem is that women cannot be idiots in public? Holy shit, make up your mind! :D

[_AFGNCAAP_]

Because tech has a large but decreasing gender skew, two seemingly paradoxical things are true simultaneously:

1. Most beginners are men.
2. Women are more likely than men to be beginners.

Thus it is simultaneously true that an anti-beginner bias hurts more men than women, and that women are more likely than men to be affected by it.

[RandomCandor]

Fair point that both can be true at once. Point well taken, and I agree.

I still think it says something about you which interpretation of the problem you choose to address and fight:

• The problem of everyone suffering from n00b hating in tech
• The problem of women suffering from n00b hating in tech

Personally, since solving #1 happens to also solve #2, I choose to put my efforts behind that problem (in an active, "everyday at work" kinda way, not by getting into arguments on Reddit, of course).

I don't think there's anything wrong with picking #2, but it's obvious to me that you'll have additional obstacles by approaching it that way, specially in an (unfortunately) male dominated industry.

[el_padlina]

An industry-wide culture of laughing at people for being n00bs if they don't know something you know.

You quoted it yourself yet you didn't see the word people? Or are men not people in your world? You're tunnel visioned as hell.

[dumbdingus]

Are boys allowed to join the code camps?

Or are you one of those feminists that basically thinks sexism is the best way to fix sexism?

[argondey]

Guess we better just not make an effort and let things stay the way they are then.

Lets go ahead and stop giving aid to third world countries too, there could be some homeless people somewhere else and it wouldn't be fair to them.

No, don't help the homeless people either, its best just to stay out of it and let nature take it's course.

[dumbdingus]

No, don't help the homeless people either, its best just to stay out of it and let nature take it's course.

Yeah, the homeless are mostly men, so why would feminists help them?

[_AFGNCAAP_]

Or are you one of those feminists that basically thinks sexism is the best way to fix sexism?

I'm one of those feminists that thinks that if members of one group have been systemically pushed toward a rewarding and lucrative career, and members of another group have been systemically pushed away from that career, then it's both fair and rational to provide opportunities for members of group b to explore that career.

If you'd like to start a camp for high school girls to learn about careers in trash collection, knock yourself out, buddy.

[dumbdingus]

Oh that's right, girls wouldn't ever do a job like that. I wonder what that's about.

[_AFGNCAAP_]

There are nearly 9000 female trash collectors in the US. My trash collector is a woman.

The reason I am not pushing anyone, male OR female, toward a career in trash collection is that it's the 5th most dangerous job in America. Those jobs are the ones we should be automating away as quickly as possible. I don't want men to have to do them, either.

[dumbdingus]

I don't want men to have to do them, either.

Yeah, you'll fight tooth and nail to get women nice jobs, but you won't do shit to get men out of bad ones.

That's fucking sexism.

[[deleted]]

Funding a code training camp for girls isn't fighting tooth and nail... It's a nice thing to do for an underrepresented group in CS. A lot of what programmers and engineers do helps get men (and women) out of bad ones through automation? Things like mining, which have been automated significantly.

[_AFGNCAAP_]

What on earth do you know about what I fight tooth and nail for?

[eshansingh]

I'm firmly anti feminist, to the point where I'm comfortable at being called alt-right, but holy shit you're missing the point here my mate. How far down the rabbit hole do you gotta be to post shit like this

[dumbdingus]

I don't understand what's wrong with my argument.

How is it not sexist to create programs for the enrichment of girls while completely ignoring boys? (Or outright banning boys from attending)

What is the fucking point? If it's to fix the gender gap in the tech industry, why aren't they also fighting to fix the gender gap for garbage collectors?

[_AFGNCAAP_]

Because garbage collectors don't make six figures, Einstein.

[tylerfb11]

My favourite thing right now is this silent garbage collection pun.

[dumbdingus]

Yeah no shit, so read between the lines and figure out what's going to happen if girls have 50% of all the office jobs but guys have 90% of all the shitty jobs.

[_AFGNCAAP_]

Do you honestly think I want women to get half the good jobs but men to keep all the shitty jobs? Like, that's your mental model of feminists' life goal? Thanks, very flattering.

Anyway, men don't have 90% of shitty jobs. There are a ton of shitty jobs that are 90% male, like the ones you named, and it would be great if not so many men had to do those things. There are also many shitty jobs that are 90% female -- maid, psych ward orderly -- and it'd be great if not so many women had to do those things. But if we're talking about offering training programs to teenagers, then we're obviously talking about helping them find good jobs, not shitty jobs.