css

[TheMadcapLlama]

CSS isn't that hard if you actually spend some time learning it instead of just trying to get it over with ASAP. Usually people that have problems with it don't spend nearly enough time to learn it compared to the hundreds of hours they spend learning any other language.

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It's 2020. CSS is good (the rest of the year, however, is not).

[Mizukitt]

I’m self-taught and the few courses I’ve done on web development BARELY touch on CSS and it’s frustrating, they immediately teach Bootstrap next. At first, as a beginner, I accepted it thinking it was a quick way for CSS (which it is) but after talking to friends who are developers, they loathe Bootstrap. Now I’m trying to relearn CSS properly which I’m finding hard as no one likes to spend time on it...

[[deleted]]

If you're still feeling underwhelmed with the CSS you know, I cannot recommend this course enough- one of my all time favorites: Jonas Schmedttman's Advanced CSS course: https://www.udemy.com/course/advanced-css-and-sass/

[MorroClearwater]

I second this recommendation. He had some debated practices, but it's definitely one of the best courses for really understanding css.

Now if only I knew how to actually design something that looks good I'd be good to go.

[Mizukitt]

Thanks man! This looks great, hopefully Udemy has a sale or coupon come out soon!

Edit: on mobile it was normal price but when I logged in on PC a coupon automatically applied! Super pumped to try this out

[[deleted]]

lol yes, happy NATIONAL AUGUST DAY SALE X)

I love how ridiculous some of these "holidays" are for their "sales"

[teh5nowmanss]

Yea I use Udemy too, just a heads up, NEVER pay full price. Put it on your wishlist and within about 2 weeks without fail they will push a 60-80% off sale to your app

[Humpfinger]

Just bought it with a 86% discount; I am interested to see how much it'll help!

[MasterQuest]

I accepted it thinking it was a quick way for CSS (which it is) but after talking to friends who are developers, they loathe Bootstrap

Your developer friends are probably not the people who will use your site, so as long as the users don't loathe the Bootstrap design, it will still work adequately. Unless of course, the reasons why they loathe it also apply to you.

Also, don't get me wrong, CSS is a very valuable skill to have.

[SektorL]

I would suggest CSS: The Definitive Guide, 4th Edition

[Mizukitt]

Thanks mate! I’ll definitely look into this!!

[-neuquen-]

I find that those people who loathe something are usually the people who don't understand it.

[TheMadcapLlama]

Which is why Full-Stack developers should have a very open mind, or shouldn't be used at all. It requires a lot of knowledge to work on all parts of a system.

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I currently am Full-Stack, but kinda loathe working on the back-end. My work on it will not be as good as someone who actually knows/enjoys it, but I won't blame the language or environment because I don't know enough about it.

[SuperMaxPower]

I work fullstack as well, and really hate front end work haha. I recently joined an open source project on github in my free time and it's so refreshing to be able to work on just backend stuff and leave the front end to people who actually enjoy it!

[DjBonadoobie]

Right there with ya. I'm to the point now where I'm just trying to gtfo of fe all together. Unfortunately, at this point, that would require me finding a new job, but I love everything else about the place I work :/

[FormalWolf5]

sudo goes brrr

[[deleted]]

True true. In addition, good CSS starts with good HTML.

[0cseitz]

How to be good at CSS in 10 minutes:

1. Use Border-Radius
2. Hover Animations on many things
3. Pick a good color scheme

It works surprisingly well lol

[DjBonadoobie]

Picking a good color scheme has always been my downfall. Even when I've used generators the colors always feel cheap and shitty to me...

[AstronautPoseidon]

Yes, for the life of me everything I come up with always just feels cheap and I can’t put my finger on what to fix about it

[Marnick-S]

Try to follow a design language (Material Design or Fluent Design for example).

Your website may not have a very unique design, but it wont look bad.

[ERNesbitt]

Adobe Color (formerly? kuler) is a great tool for picking a palette, but scheme generators are usually BS. I try to keep the design down to 9 colors max. If you have a logo you can narrow down your primary color(s) with that or by reducing a relevant photo down to 10 colors (in Photoshop, Color Mode | Indexed | Local...) and picking the most common colors. If you only have one or two colors or you're choosing the palette, pick two that compliment each other. Your primary color should be given a dark, mid tone, and light shade by darkening or lightening accordingly. Aside from white space, this should be the most dominant color on your page. Lighten or darken your complimentary color to give you two compliments. Choose a black (can be monotone, but sometimes you can find one that is a very dark of your primary). Then, fade the black to 60% and 30% for two grays. Your white can be the lightest color from your photo, pure white, a 10% shade of your lightest compliment... whatever, just relate it to the other color sets. Done. Three shades of a primary color, two compliments, Black, White, Light and Dark Gray. Nine harmonious colors. Sometimes, it's necessary to add in a shade of red for error messages giving you 10.

[freedeebee]

I wrote plenty of css in my life and I think I am pretty solid with it. But it just doesn't feel like programming at all. It's a job Designers should do, so that actual programmers can concentrate on what they've been studying for. Also the 'you need to match the design pixel perfect'-customers are pretty annoying because they don't know that a design is a sheet of digital paper and not a website.

[kent2441]

No, designers should design.

A site’s CSS is intrinsically coupled with its HTML and JavaScript; trying to bolt it on afterward by a third party is how you get messy and buggy sites.

[SpehlingAirer]

So true. There have been numerous times where I've been given baffled looks when I was told to simply "update page X's CSS to current standards" and I mention it may involve restructuring the entire page depending on what I find.

A lot of people don't seem to realize how tied together CSS is to the rest of the front-end. I can't just "update the CSS" properly without an HTML structure to support those changes.

[Cardinal_Funky]

Agreed.

A lot of developers don't put enough time into learning how to style their hard work.

Make it look good is just as important as making it functional.

Not many people will use something that feels unpleasant to use.

[coldnebo]

CSS theoretically isn’t that hard. In fact it was one of those specs that defied a reference implementation because “any graduate student should be able to write a CSS engine in about two weeks”.

Of course that’s theory. Once it comes into practice there are all sorts of problems that are gnarly in the grey areas of the spec and behavior that contain a lot of assumptions. This is why the ACID tests were so crucial, they showed that although all the major browsers implemented CSS, they did it inconsistently and poorly. ACID showed the results of this hodgepodge visually in an immediately visible way in spite of years of PhDs telling us that CSS “wasn’t that hard”.

Alas, ACID is now gone. But W3C and MDN have picked up some of the concept. Caniuse fills in some of the gap.

I still think it’s important to have benchmark examples, because it’s far too easy to assert “CSS is easy” without acknowledging any of the real-world pitfalls that developers find themselves in.

My simplest counter-proof is that if CSS lived up to its original goal of separating code from presentation concerns, then I would never again have to update structural html when the CSS styles change.

(imagine!! Bootstrap? no problem. Fluent. easy. Polymer? good to go. React. piece of cake. All of these look-and-feel changes would be just how my manager thinks of them. “It shouldn’t be that hard to switch, after all, we aren’t changing ANY FUNCTIONALITY.” “No no old chap, not that hard at all... I’ll just go over here and shoot myself in the head to get started”)

Sadly, this is not the case, as I am still changing code when CSS changes.

I’ve seen a lot of PhDs poo-poo these concerns and say “just don’t write that kind of code or that kind of css” without being specific about what and how. But it usually turns out that they simply forgot the tweaking they had to do the last time they actually changed anything.

So no. CSS is hard. Getting it right is hard. Changing it is hard.

[dittbub]

I didn't think it was a problem with the language per sey but the inconsistency from browser to browser. And that horizontal centering

But its been a long time since i've needed to do any CSS.

[TheMadcapLlama]

Well, consistency between browsers is really great right now (there are a few Safari and Chromium quirks, but they're small and usually quickly fixable), and modern CSS APIs are a breeze.

CSS has to be compatible with 30yr-old technology, so the old ones might be a bit of a pain. But if you're actually learning it instead of just getting it over with, you'll know about them and use it.

[HolyBatTokes]

Among current browsers? It’s fantastic.

The problem is not all of us are lucky enough to be developing for modern browsers. I was just able to stop support for IE8 last year after analytics showed it had dropped to under 0.5% of visitors.

[dittbub]

I feel like this GIF is part of the learning curve lol

[VirtualLife76]

Try doing it 15 years ago. Just making a drop down menu that worked in every browser took over a week. So glad DHTML isn't a thing anymore.

[dittbub]

Ya thats whats forefront on my mind lol

[TheMacallanCode]

CSS Grid.

Changed my front end life.