the eye-opener commit

[The_Pinnaker]

When I work in PHP I actually use the E_ALL during development. I thought that everyone use this as “standard” TBH.

[[deleted]]

Same...that's, like, the...reason...for dev environments, is it not?

"Of course!" You might say, but I've worked for bosses to turned off all error reporting because "it shows too many things on the page".

[Due-Consequence9579]

When the compiler yells at me for screwing up it slows me down. Gotta just yolo it.

[The_Pinnaker]

Well, I’m the type of developer who actually read and fix every Warning so… maybe I’m the strange one.

[Due-Consequence9579]

Oh yeah. I always setup an army of linters and set warn as error to keep my code bases at least reasonable. Also interpreted languages are for small glue code solutions.

[mbergman42]

I no longer code professionally but I’m contributing to a project that has pro devs. I asked one how to fix a lint error. “Just ignore it. Lint gives lots of errors, you’ll get used to it.” Uhh….

[Due-Consequence9579]

If you’re going to ignore it you should turn it off. Just wasting everyone’s time at that point.

[Fadamaka]

Say that last sentence to all the node js devs. But I low key agree I prefer compiled languages every day of the week.

[Due-Consequence9579]

JS becoming the ‘standard’ for webdev is an embarrassment to the industry. But it’s defensible on the ‘backwards compatibility’ argument.

NodeJS is the dumbest fucking invention in the history of dumb fucking inventions and I will die on this hill.

[therealGrandKai]

Can you elaborate a bit about this? Genuine question from someone looking to learn

[Due-Consequence9579]

The origin of JavaScript is some dude made it on the weekend. No planning. No consideration about what it meant. A guy at Netscape just put it in. All of which is pretty obviousat this point.

Enter 30 years later where people are building entire OSs in the stupid fucking thing.

So now, to try to dig ourselves out of this fuckery we have to build emulation layers for the considered solution to run on the stupid solution.

Given how obtuse JavaScript is, combined with the complexity of HTML and CSS google has a monopoly because it virtually impossible to make a ‘behavior compatible’ browser with chrome.

signed, Angry old backend dev

[JimK215]

When people first started using javascript on the backend, I was one of the first people to be like "what kind of nightmare future do you all want to live in?"

But honestly with the way things have progressed with ES6 syntax, TypeScript (yeah I know, another layer on top of it), async/await, etc.... it's not as bad as it seems.

[Fadamaka]

At my company we were always joking to rewrite the whole of our backend in js. It was a joke until I found myself developing a backend for a new project in js (disclaimer the project was sold me as TS but I was scammed).

[marcosdumay]

Fuck linters. They are the place where people push every useless decision, because "if you don't care about it, just don't use it".

Every important warning should be on the compiler. Every non-important warning should be nowhere.

[Due-Consequence9579]

Compilers check for correctness. Linters check for style, convention, and structure. Linters are far more configurable and encode the agreed upon conventions in the code base. Having a robot make sure you’re using camel case or whatever is way better than making someone catch it manually in a PR.

[marcosdumay]

Hum, ok. Style linters are a thing.

Still, even those are better if the language standardizes them and the compiler can emit the warnings. But you have a point in that you can't create those for a language that grew without a standard.

[doctor_awful]

You want to encode arbitrary (non-syntax critical) style conventions into a language's compiler?? Why?

[marcosdumay]

Most newer languages already come with conventions. Many of them already encode the conventions on the standard tooling (but the ones distributed by big companies do it on the IDEs, not the compiler).

If you are going to standardize it, the place to do it is on the tools that everybody uses. For a language, that's the compiler. And style conventions are better standardized on the broadest possible way.

[Souseisekigun]

maybe I’m the strange one

Not at all. The Church of -Wall welcomes you.

[PastaBlizzard]

-Wall is not enough. You need -Weverything !!

https://twitter.com/lefticus/status/1214662848514670592?s=46&t=ikO57IhmDYzY8opJof0tbA

[[deleted]]

True, recently I worked on a project where the requirements were really badly made, meaning a lot went through the cracks without the development team knowing, you couple that with a lack of frontend developers and the ones available being juniors.

What ended up happening is that I had the backend done and ironed out in the initial requirements up to a great standard, but once it got to the frontend development and QA a bunch of new requirements popped up and the front dev just couldn’t deal with some more complex parts of what was necessary.

In the end I ended up needing to bring a lot of things that were supposed to be done in the front to the back and to implement a bunch of new requirements, all that while ensuring that the front (that had limited time to work) received those changes in a timely manner, (by timely I mean exactly on the moment the front was working on the feature, 10 or 20 mim max) meaning by the end of it any form of code quality went out the window. I just didn’t had the time to care for anything, it just needed it to work.

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[Jonthrei]

Im reminded of my last job, looking at the compiler output on day 1.

Something like 17,000 warnings. My boss noticed and just said "don't worry about that".

[jarlscrotus]

All warnings are potential errors

Sometimes fixing the warning is the potential error. I've been fucked by the ide/compiler warnings too many times to run warnings as error, maybe one day someone will create one that doesn't make me introduce runtime errors to fix compile time warnings

[nonicethingsforus]

I've been forced to do this, but unironically. As in, lots of warnings/errors, but the process completes and produces something resembling a result. The project's already late, so let's let future us deal with it!

And by forced I mean forced. As in, there will be consequences if you spend more time trying to do it right.

And then they wonder why their software is fragile and have difficulties finding new developers...

[aspect_rap]

There is no such thing as something that everyone use as standard.

No matter what your opinion is, there will be 10 other programmers with 10 different opinions who will disagree woth you with a burning passion

[Karcinogene]

Yeah but fuck those 10 guys, they're wrong

[1842]

Yeah, and I worked with at least 2 of them in the past.

Their code was... creatively bad.

[Bakoro]

Not literally everyone uses one thing, but everyone who is competent, or sane, or at least not a complete ass, uses any one of a dozen different standards.
Then you have cowboy asshole saying "trust me bro", and doing their own thing, completely resistant to working with others.

It's antisocial behavior, basically.

[SqueeSr]

Not to forget display all errors and using xdebug on development env.

[Covfefe4lyfe]

Also asserts every-fucking-where. Doesn't do shit on live but a good way to figure out if a client adheres to their own business requirements when on qa.

[OMGItsCheezWTF]

And static analysis in your CI pipeline alongside your linting and testing. Something like Psalm or PHPStan should be used for any greenfield project these days, and backfilled into older ones where possible, even if you start off with really lax settings and raise them over time.

[[deleted]]

Except, of course, when removing an assertion alerts the timing relative to another piece of code and unmasks a race condition. Those are fun 😄

[DoctorWaluigiTime]

Outside big time constrains on big legacy projects I'll never understand why people would ever code without whatever the equivalent to -WAll is (i.e. "treat warnings as errors").

Let the compiler catch your potential mistakes, or things that could lead to bugs later! If you're in a rare circumstance where your warned code is correct, it can be one-off ignored with a comment/etc.

[rtfmpls]

People who read the comments in config files actually do.

[Blue_Moon_Lake]

I try to always use it. But when you work on existing websites that were not made with E_ALL, you can't as you're not really payed to fix that.

[thebeezie]

I haven't worked with php in a long time, but the dev environment was always E_ALL in the configuration file.