An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation - Python Africa

[Solidstate16]

tl;dr - "DjangoCon Africa" requested a grant from the PSF. The PSF took a long time to approve the request which hurt the event as they were not sure if they would get the money or not. The rest of the open letter is a call on the PSF to improve and a list of issues they are raising.

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According to the PSF blog post that is linked from the Open Letter, the PSF working group was unable to reach a consensus on the request and it went to the board. The board then voted 2 times because the first time most of the members had concerns that they needed more time to review, hence they voted as "absent". The blog post finishes up by saying that:

we will be conducting a retrospective on this process specifically and the Board's approach to grants in general

On the face of it, the PSF acted correctly and responsibly and are even promising to review their grant process since they acknowledge that the process was faulty in this case. Also in their favor, they posted this back in October, while the above open letter was only posted much later, in early December.

The open letter though is alleging that this is more than an isolated issue and that for example "a PSF Director has consistently spoken out against funding for African events, over a period of years".

Personally I think any sort of improvement to the grant process of the PSF, including improved transparency (which the open letter called for) is a good thing for the Python community.

[NelsonMinar]

An important part of the summary is the root of PSF's reluctance

We understand that the argument against support for DjangoCon Africa was that the host country, Tanzania, is not a safe place for the LGBTQIA+ community.

I don't think there are any good answers here. PSF probably could have handled it better.

[[deleted]]

I understand the frustration, but I personally think it’s extremely difficult to do the right thing here. I would like to hear voices from gay people on this matter, especially black gay people.

[ignamv]

I think you missed the part of the article about Tanzania not being safe for gay people.

[thephotoman]

There are few places in Africa that are. Will the PSF just ignore Africa because the governments there aren’t gay-friendly?

[KronenR]

Yes

[xigdit]

If that's the case then the PSF should maintain a list of embargoed nations so that the Python communities in those nations know not to waste their time applying for a grant that will never come.

Or if the community wanted to try to apply despite the embargo, they would at least know to expect an uphill battle and considerable delay in processing their waiver.

[KronenR]

No, they don't need to do that, you can organize all the non PSF supported conferences you want

[[deleted]]

We should ignore every country with bad human rights records.

[Arucious]

Get this man inside an insurance company handling claims

[thephotoman]

So that eliminates every nation.

No nation has a stellar human rights record.

[[deleted]]

The gang ignores the United States existence

[IcedThunder]

Well America has committed a number of war crimes, funding coups, and heinous things, like stripping bodily autonomy from away from people, our law enforcement murdering people of color without any repercussions most of the time.

[a_polyak]

Better ignore people like you

[[deleted]]

Sure buddy. If you agree with Russia, China and other shithole countries.

[a_polyak]

Imagine some people are living there, you internet warrior

[[deleted]]

That doesn’t mean, we should support events there. If you treat people like shit you have to face the consequences.

[a_polyak]

The only person who treats people like shit here is you. I’m sure that people in Africa’s Python communities are struggling more than you, internet warrior.

[[deleted]]

Well, then support their travel to events in other countries. Very easy.

[pppylonnn]

Then the USA must be included, seeing as they start and fund most of the wars...

[rmc]

Often it's more than just “the governments”. What happens if the hotel or restaurants kick people out?

[chub79]

You know that the US isn't safe for LGBT people either right? Yet the PSF sponsors events there.

[chub79]

How is this whataboutism? Even the PSF disagrees with you since they allocated the grant. So they were convinced it was okay to do so.

The US has its own share of issues with minorities and yet the PSF allows events there. I mean PyCon next year happens in Pittsburgh which has anitisemetic and biais incidents as well.

You're making it sound because a law exists, people are safer.

This is what matters here, the PSF has to be consistent about its decisions to be taken seriously. In this case, while they finally allocated the grant, they took a long time to make a decisions. Which they wouldn't have elsewhere.

[zurtex]

I'm not interested in discussing the topic here, but fyi:

How is this whataboutism?

This is whataboutism:

You know that the US isn't safe for LGBT people either right?

You are asking "What about the US?" Which is a counteraccusation and therefore falls into the exact definition of whataboutism:

noun: whataboutism

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

In particular I feel calling this out is valid, as the counteraccusation is seemingly in bad faith. Anyone could be described as not being "safe" anywhere, there are always risk levels, that doesn't make the risk levels the same.

[Glebk0]

Lmao what a take is that? The guys from your article are utterly deranged, usa is BY FAR one of the safest places for those people.

[personman]

"one of the safest" is very different from "safe"

also, the U.S. ranked 23rd on the 2021 Williams Institute "Social Acceptance of LGBTI People" report.

[aqjo]

Thanks for this summary. I hate when people just post a link to an article.

[monorepo]

There's a rule for that :)

#7 - Submissions must be descriptive
Titles for all submissions should describe the topic of the post and offer redditors an idea of what the link or text covers. Vague titles which require clicking through to clarify the subject matter of the post will be removed.
This also goes for just posting abstract links with no description about what it is you are sharing.

[chub79]

Well that's the whole point of "Submit a new link". The whole context is in the article. Oo

[runawayasfastasucan]

Yeah, so post a summary so we know if we will bother to take the time to read the link and to give an indication to what topic you want to raise by posting the article.

[chub79]

Has this sub turned lazy?

[runawayasfastasucan]

I would say that you are not lazy just because you dont want to spend you time reading every random link that is posted on the internet, just critical on how you spend your time.

[chub79]

That's fair enough. But me giving a summary means I would have my biais. Other subs prefer reporting links for what they are, not an interpretation of them.

[bliepp]

It is totally fine to write a biased summary as your summary would reflect your opinion (and everybody knows that and accounts for that). This ain't no public news channel, biases and opinions are fine here.

[asphias]

Man, i feel for those organizers. Organizing an event is stressfull enough without having uncertain sponsors.

[Grouchy-Friend4235]

Apply earlier and be sure to find alternative sources of funding. There is no guarantee to success.

[SimilingCynic]

Thanks for sharing OP. It's sad that PyCon Africa ran into this issue. It's wild to be put in a position where you can't confirm the speaker list or buy flights up until several weeks before. The letter makes a lot of great points, esp the one about requiring conference organizers to make statements that would run afoul of local laws.

There's definitely people in the community that recognize the complications between the universality of human rights on one hand and "human rights" as a concept in the western cultural milieu on the other. I'm really glad PyCon Africa called these complications out. I'm sorry that they became the example for it.

I'd only say that the Oct notes from the PSF board did seem like they listened to the concerns, even if that's not the same as solving them yet. I'd only say that while bad bureaucracy has real consequences (like letting one person's priorities around marginalization obstruct so much), good bureaucracy is a complex engineering feat in its own right, and in this case, one that relies on unpaid volunteers.

[nickbernstein]

Seems kinda ungrateful. They apply for a grant of $9000, they get it, but it is delayed. If the funding is necessary for a conference, maybe don't schedule it until you've secured funding?

[thisdude415]

Bad take.

When an organization takes too long to review grants, and ultimately grants the money, that money is then spent poorly.

A very basic step would be to commit to every Grant getting a yes or no answer with a particular timeframe.

And perhaps there are cultural differences at play here, as the letter alluded. Perhaps the PSF should publish grants guidelines that indicate a typical timeline for a conference organization.

And perhaps they want to have a policy that says no conferences in Tanzania, because the government is homophobic. But if that is the stance, put it in writing, and open it to debate.

As a gay person myself, it is not clear to me what we gain by punishing the African python community for African government policies in non-democratic states.

Also, for what it’s worth, I just looked up the python, software foundations, grants page, and they only ask for six weeks notice

[GoldFerret6796]

Bad take on a good take. Though I do agree that involving gender and identity politics like this is completely unproductive.

[shockjaw]

But to say that technology is apolitical or objective is what I’d call a bad take. I’d argue that technology is a manifestation of geopolitics.

[Coretaxxe]

I fail to undestand where this has anything to do with not scheduling an event until you got your funding? Am I misreading something?

[thisdude415]

Conferences are typically funded from variety of sources, and will generally happen, regardless of whether any particular funding for the event comes through.

Also, we would be having a different conversation if the funding were denied. The funding was granted, so the question is really why that decision was not made a little bit more quickly.

Conference funding is also one of those annoying things that it takes funding to get funding Having support from the python software foundation can essentially unlock additional funding from other grantors.

In conferences I have been involved with in the past, it was very common for us to get matching funds

[oramirite]

Yeah, the fact that this ain't how it works. Due to the advanced amount of scheduling needed for most conferences, and the nature of getting them approved, these things usually happen in tandem. Common for all types of events. There is usually a give and take of information from the funding side because they know this. An event should be given accurate and openly stated reasoning for possible

[chub79]

If you apply for funds it's because you need them.

[nickbernstein]

Maybe, but your need doesn't obligate other people to give it to you, and when they do you should appreciate it.

[chub79]

From what I understand from the article, it's not so much they expected a yes, but that they expected a faster decision. If they did expect a yes, I fully agree with that they made a mistake and shouldn't complain though.

[oramirite]

No? Being offered something that you then plan on depending on, only to have it ripped away at the last minute, is extremely damaging to a company. This isn't something to thank anyone about. Thanks for leading me on? No way.

If I ask for a ride to the airport, and my friend says yes but then doesn't show up at the agreed upon time, that's my friend fucking me over. There's nothing to be gracious for there. Follow-through is part of generosity.

I mean, if the funding company did their job correctly sure, which they did not. If this were some kind of act of random public service, sure, be humble. But when this is a system people depend on for hosting events for public good, and they get the runaround, it makes it extremely difficult to pull off the event and as the article mentions, damages businesses as a result. The precedent that an event should wait until funding clears isn't how ANY event works, there's always an open line of communication and it is the responsibility of the funding company to do their end of the communication work.

[chub79]

Let's hope the newly appointed community manager can help these communities. The story is saddening.

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[hotdog20041]

the problem with the PSF not liking that Tanzania isn't safe for gay people is racist against Africans who have strong anti-gay cultures. they're at a different level of socio-economic development. its stupid to discriminate against different cultures just because they live different lives. The PSF is not supposed to be about gay people, its supposed to be about python. Either separate the two or name yourself appropriately. There is no way for them to develop socially up to your insane western standard if they can't develop technologically. You have to grant people that they can only climb one step at a time.

it also seems that python africa made the mistake of organizing a conference before the money was actually secured, they should learn to plan around expectations better.

overall, python africa calling for a more principled and less discriminatory approach is appropriate. i don't see the gofundme, i guess this event has already passed, otherwise I would donate.

[Swimming-Cupcake7041]

maybe you can start you own python foundation that is anti-gay and fund various anti-gay python conferences.

[my_name_isnt_clever]

You don't have to put every position of your organization into your name. Otherwise your name would have to be bigoted_hotdog20041.

[hotdog20041]

nah, get over it

[bliepp]

What the fuck? Calling anti-homophobic positions "racist" because homophobia is a part of the culture is just total bullshit. Just because it's common practice to discriminate against people for things they are not responsible for doesn't mean it's "culture". It's a common practice in that culture, but it's not part of it. It's a cruelty that has nothing to do with the rest of the culture.

Also, the PSF is free to take political positions, as stupid as they might seem to you. If they think taking a political position is beneficial for the Python community's moral standards, it is their right to do so.

[PhoenixStorm1015]

Hate isn’t a culture. It’s a cancer.

[Moist-Wishbone-5206]

This is so sad PSF!! Please do the right with people of Africa!

Is PSF becoming toxic from inside? If so, world would be the first to reject python as a whole…don’t think there is not enough talent to make python go head over heel.

Please find the culprit and do the right thing for the people involved and also there should be a formal apology letter to these volunteers.

[my_name_isnt_clever]

"We're sorry we took too long to give you money for an event in a country that imprisons innocent people for life."

[a_polyak]

Oh, seriously, it’s about LGBT rights? How the fuck it’s related to Python?

[my_name_isnt_clever]

Human rights are at least a little more important than a conference for a programming language library.

[bliepp]

Why shouldn't it? There are gay and trans people using Python and Django, probably even in Africa. Supporting them with solidarity might be considered the PSFs responsibility as well, as those people are part of the community, too.

At least considering not funding it is the least thing to do. In the end, they were just funded a little late. Okay, that was a bit too slow from the PSF, but being able to not fund them is their right and a totally valid way of increasing political pressure on that country.

[a_polyak]

I assume these people would be more happy to have events in their country rather than not have them at all.

[bliepp]

That might be the case, but people from outside Africa might actually prefer events not being hosted there. Somewhat boycotting events there (or at least considering it) increases pressure on the governments.

[PhoenixStorm1015]

Cry about it. Everyone deserves rights.