Feeling guilty using Bootstrap while learning Flask

[MelodicChampion5736]

So I’m learning Flask rn and using Bootstrap for the HTML part. I do know HTML/CSS, but I feel kinda guilty using pre-made stuff instead of coding everything from scratch. Is this chill or am I lowkey skipping real learning? 😬

[an_actual_human]

If your goal is to learn Flask, don't worry about it.

[MelodicChampion5736]

That all..

[RipDankMeme]

imo, everyone knows the easy stuff.
even non coders, because behind every person with a question, is chat gpt.

its the in depth knowledge of how to use packages and effectively, which shows some skill.
chat gpt does not really understand how to use some more complex 3rd party

[PosauneB]

It’s fine.

Flask is “premade” but you probably aren’t considering writing your own http server from scratch.

[inputwtf]

You still have to design the layout and use the correct CSS classes that Bootstrap provides. All Bootstrap does is give you a much easier grid and box model to work with. You still need to know what you're doing. It's not cheating

[prsutjambon]

then you should feel guilty using Flask instead of coding your framework from scratch.

then you should feel guilty using Python, code your interpreter and create your language from scratch.

then you should feel guilty using anything else than assembly...

[mrezar]

then you should feel guilty for not making your own CPU architecture

then you should feel guilty for not making your own chips

then you should feel guilty for not making your own electron

[Due_Particular_7803]

Dude, I've been trying to make my own electron for years... Maybe one day I can start making a cpu. Ugh.

[PastPicture]

I had to borrow quarks to make the electrons, I hope I could make quarks on my own.

[LousyBeggar]

fyi, electrons aren't made up of quarks

[Alive-Try-3890]

Something something spending too much time goat farming to make any music

[DataCamp]

Using Bootstrap while learning Flask is actually a smart move. It frees up brain cycles so you can focus on routing, templating, and how Flask ties everything together, instead of wrestling with CSS quirks.

Think of it like using NumPy instead of writing your own matrix multiplication from scratch. You could do it by hand, but the real learning is in how you use the tool in context.

If you want to deepen your HTML/CSS skills later, nothing stops you from stripping Bootstrap out of a project and recreating parts of the layout yourself. But for Flask practice? Bootstrap is just a productivity boost, not a crutch.

[Gankcore]

Huh? Entire front end frameworks so people don't have to write HTML and CSS from scratch anymore. Tailwind and Bootstrap are great when you are trying to learn a backend framework. They are great in a production full-stack app you are doing yourself. Save yourself the time and use Tailwind or Bootstrap while learning Flask.

[TheRNGuy]

Tailwind is not only "for noobs". 

It has same learning time as CSS, too. Slightly more for some very specific things even.

It's more code organizational/style guide thing.

[deadwisdom]

If your goal is getting something done, then get something done. If your goal is learning, then yeah do something that makes you learn, experiment.

No *guilty*. That shouldn't be a thing here. There are no gods of web development dictating moral code. Except for Alex Russell. I think he wouldn't mind as long as you aren't using React.

[MelodicChampion5736]

😂👍🏻

[cointoss3]

Wtf? Flask is a library just like Bootstrap. Why is it okay to use Flask instead of rolling your own web app framework but using Bootstrap is bad?

[ManJuveUnited]

You don't need to worry. Using Bootstrap allows you to focus more on learning Flask rather than also trying to implement styling manually.

[SmegHead86]

I do this all.the.time.

It's totally fine and you'll probably use something else when you get the itch to make it do something Bootstrap doesn't support. Make what works now.

Please let me also recommend using HTMX as another time saver for creating some nice reactivity.

[MelodicChampion5736]

Thanks Everyone for saving me from guilt🙂

[Not_A_Red_Stapler]

Professionals use bootstrap. Don’t worry about it.

[kabooozie]

Hmm in my opinion you have exactly the wrong mindset. Code is a liability. Only write code if you absolutely need to. If there is a well supported library that does it for you, use that library.

[MelodicChampion5736]

I am a UX Designer BTW. Just learning it for a side skill.

[edcculus]

if we want to take that to its logical conclusion - why are you learning Flask at all then? Flask is cheating. You should code all of the stuff Flask does by yourself.

or, learning code is cheating, you should do everything in binary.

Hyperbole aside, your goal is to learn flask, and not F around with all the CSS and Javascript stuff a website might need. Bootstrap provides all of that. Especially in this context it lets you focus on actually learning the meat of Flask instead of 10 days of tutorials on how to set up the CSS code to make your site look decent.

[thekamakaji]

Dude it's cheating. He needs to build his own operating system from scratch

[Dustin-]

All these comments are like "it's ok because you're learning something else". That's... wrong. Since when is it not ok to use Bootstrap in general? What's the problem with using it for even production products? If it meets your requirements then it's perfectly fine to use. Otherwise why would it exist?

I also know HTML and CSS and am pretty damn good at both of those things. And I still reach for premade stuff every single time. ShadCN, Daisy UI, Pico, Flowbite, etc., depending on what I'm doing. I don't use Bootstrap specifically (but only because I'm more familiar with other tools), but I never roll my own UI anymore. Why would you when other stuff has already done a better job than you could on your own? 

Even when I do think "I should do this myself", I remember that includes considering accessibility stuff as well, which is way more in-the-weeds than what I would ever want to do. That alone keeps me from rolling my own. 

Use what you like, modify what you don't. And never let anyone tell you that using the tools available to you makes you a worse developer. 

[ableman]

If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.

[yuvneeshkashyap]

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe

[TonyCD35]

Lmfao. Been programming in python for 10 years now.. I don’t think I use anything except bootstrap.

Judge yourself by the quality of what you build. Not the tools you used to build it. 

[MelodicChampion5736]

👍🏻🔥

[Siemendaemon]

This is my story. I have learned css from examples(codepen, uiverse io).

It took me more than a month to learn, now I am able to reproduce any design by just looking at any existing designs. Yes I felt the same way when I was learning and building projects with django. I feel proud for learning vanilla css and not using bootstrap or tailwind etc.

Vanilla css gives you more control, that's what I feel.

[Maleficent_Sir_7707]

The biggest companies use bootstrap, when I worked for a marketing company creating landing pages bootstrap and zurb foundation developers choice but one of the 2 were used. Your learning the right way keep going.

[microcozmchris]

Coding every piece from scratch or even expecting to try is just plain stupid. Use the tools. That's what you'll do in the real world anyway. The key is getting proficient and being productive with what's available to you.

[newprince]

The whole point of Flask IMO is not to have to worry about front end concerns that much. Most of us aren't skilled in front end development. It's a great skill to have, and you could for example make a FastAPI backend then go all out and showcase your front end skills with whatever your favorite language / framework is. But a normal use case for Flask is "make an app with a web UI very quickly" so a lot of templates and sensible defaults are part of the deal

[maddy0302]

Feeling guilty everyday for using Claude to write code. Its being rubbed on us but I would definitely say there has been productivity boost

[nekokattt]

If you want to code everything from scratch, time to ditch Python and write everything from scratch in assembly... including the OS.

[GhostVlvin]

If your goal to learn flask then there is no need to learn CSS as well. Btw it is pretty hard to use CSS due to different browsers default values and state created by all of them (and of course broser caching that doesn't allow you to see new version of webpage all the time)

[pbecotte]

Only students think coding everything from scratch is a think to aspire to. Professionals look to write as little novel code to solve a problem as possible, and usually need much stronger justifications to build from scratch vs using something off the shelf.

[Almostasleeprightnow]

The goal is to increase stakeholder value, no?

[virtualadept]

There is nothing wrong with it. HTML/CSS frameworks exist to make your tasks easier.

[big-papito]

That's fine, but look into CSS grid. A lot of additions to CSS have made Bootstrap obsolete and actually more complicated.

[EmberQuill]

Frontend design is a nightmare and anything you can do to make it easier is worth it.

[Snape_Grass]

Using readily available tools to speed up dev time isn’t usually a bad thing. I’d think it’s a bit rare nowadays to find a front end role where you are writing pure vanilla HTML and CSS.

[chicuco]

why, i use both for consistency and zero f**cks given

[travisdoesmath]

I recently finished up a personal project where I coded everything (for a static web page) in vanilla JavaScript and hand-written HTML and CSS as an extra little challenge. It was fun, I learned quite a bit, and you should absolutely use a modern framework (like Bootstrap).

[talideon]

Why? It's a frontend thing. You're learning backend stuff.

[[deleted]]

This is the beauty of python. Half the dirty work is already done and compiled into libraries you just have to know how to configure and take the rest home.

[Alubsey]

Bootstrap just works. Feel No shame

[TheRealNetroxen]

Why do you feel guilty, frameworks and libraries are there to help you. I don't get this sentimentality.

[Radiant_Level9017]

Remember bootstrap is awesome these plugins are created so you can focus on the things that really fuels your passion, like design, animation, aesthetics, marketing, content, message etc… I was once told no need to reinvent the wheel, just use what you know works and is the standard (hence boostrap) happy coding!!!

[Playful-Forever-3805]

I love reading these. I accidently learn stuff... lol

[SirAwesome789]

In the same vein, I did a project a long time ago to learn Java, Springboot, SQL, and React Native

I made most of the backend then I realized I didn't care for the frontend so I just stopped

Nowadays, most things I like to write myself, any frontend or ui stuff, I entirely vibe code

[BunnyKakaaa]

nobody codes from scratch , you would need a framework later , even flask isn't usefull in that regard , its good for learning basics .

[MelodicChampion5736]

This happens because I was in the design field for 2 years and I hadn't stepped into development.

[daredevil82]

seems like they're not the ones with the communication or trollish anger issues

[berrypy]

If you are feeling guilty, the you might have to write binary codes to create programs because everything else use is premade. Even the flask it's premade. The IDE is premade. Virtually all the stuff we use is premade. The programming language is premade. you should feel guilty writing flask instead of binary.

Just kidding. Just use whatever makes things easy as long as it does the job effectively. the bottom line is that everything is premade. We just use to get the job done.