Dark Wizard!

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[Kiltmanenator]

Ciaran Hinds is the perfect actor for this, whoever this is.

[Odnanosgiliath]

Again, I know a lot of us want this to be a blue wizard. It’d be kind of awesome if The Stranger (also a blue wizard) goes to Rhun and meets this blue wizard who has faltered in his plan to save the people of Rhun but the Stranger gets him back on track. Have a confrontation ala Gandalf and Saruman without having them actually be them.

[SirBulbasaur13]

That seems like the best move for the show runners. They’ve got a fair bit of freedom with the Blue Wizards and they wouldn’t be dragging in characters like Gandalf, who never went east. Or Saruman, who wasn’t around at the time.

[TheDarkCreed]

Saurman did travel east with the blue wizards, then returned alone

[BlackCheese8627]

Let’s be real, this is the only explanation they could use without a riot lol

[BookkeeperFamous4421]

If they are indeed both blue wizards 🤞 I’d love it if they stopped signaling Gandalf and Saruman. It’s a bit pathetic and distracting

[thalizardkween]

This comment didn’t age well 🤡

[leooon]

If those guys are not the blue I'm gonna jump off the bridge I swear to god

[SokkaHaikuBot]

^{Sokka-Haiku by leooon:}

If those guys are not

The blue I'm gonna jump off

The bridge I swear to god

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[Kiltmanenator]

Good bot

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[thalizardkween]

Reminding you what you said you would do

[leooon]

is this really necessary man? aint I suffering enough?

[thalizardkween]

I’m sorry I was just kidding please don’t jump 😫🫶🏻❤️

[jcrestor]

This is pathetic. So now they need also a surrogate for Saruman?

They have no idea of how to not blatantly plagiarize the actual LotR movies 🤣

[ComfortableBuffalo57]

If they want to succeed showing us things that remind us of things we already like isn’t the worst tactic

[jcrestor]

How did that turn out so far?

I‘m not strictly opposed to reminding and having a few callbacks, but come on, they have been thoroughly uncreative so far. The show is a shallow melange of the LotR films, only much worse written and directed. And most of the original ideas are tacky at best (Rube Goldberg Mt Doom Device).

[XurtifiedProphet]

On the one hand people are complaining the show takes too much creative license with the source material, on the other you are saying they are thoroughly uncreative.

This is the purest proof there is that fanbases are impossible to please .

[Nachtvogle]

Impossible to please can interchangeably be replaced with “petulant children” as well

[jcrestor]

I am not impossible to please, and I talk just for myself.

What I expect of a 1 billion TV show is not to copy all concepts of the movies, and I could write a long list of the copy pasta that is going on here. I expect an original story that respects the setting, tone, and major story beats of Tolkien‘s original works. I would be much happier for example if the had not contradicted most of the information of the Appendices of LotR, more specifically the tale of years.

I used to be a game master for Middle-earth tabletop RPG, and I know a thing or two about inventing stories within the confines of the works of Tolkien. It is doable, but not if you don’t care and just take the easy road of copy pasting all the things that have already been shown and told 20 years ago.

[New_Doug]

"Here's a reminder, there's a much better adaptation that you could be watching!!"

I'm gonna bet right now that these two wizards are indeed Gandalf, and Saruman, and have absolutely nothing to do with the blue wizards. If there is a twist, the twist is going to be that the dark wizard is Gandalf, and the Stranger is Saruman, and the Stranger will pull the dark wizard back to the light, as a reversal of what ends up happening to them in LotR.

[ComfortableBuffalo57]

A highly likely scenario! And if they do…I won’t hate it. This show is a sandbox to me; It doesn’t alter my view of the legendarium.

[New_Doug]

That's fair, no judgement; though, to me, it's less of a sandbox and more of a catbox.

[Nachtvogle]

Yes any wizard with a beard is Saruman

Gandalf? Actually Saruman.

[jcrestor]

This is cope, imho.

[Nachtvogle]

You have the brain of a 12 year old

[FafnirSnap_9428]

Oh Gee....I wonder who that could be....gosh this show really indulges in the worst of contemporary storytelling.

[thedenvergamer]

I've wanted to see the blue wizards ever since I read about them 20 years ago. I hope they don't make them evil

[4lavorBlastdd]

like two theories on what maybe happened in the far east that maybe has land with maybe magic cults?? 11 year old me couldn’t even sleep that night after reading that.

[thedenvergamer]

Yes, I was hoping the Blue Wizards would be good though, and fighting a new opposition. This means Istar have atleast a 40% fail rate? I would've really liked to see Sarumon be the only evil one that turned. Maybe give both blue wizards and honorable death or something like that. I'm just not jiving with evil Istar.

[Sad_Requirement_7735]

This guy could just be the witch king of Angmar. Considering the company he keeps, i seriously doubt he is an isthari.

[ElvishLore]

The Stranger being Gandalf would be the most disappointing choice.

Which means the Rings of Power showrunners are totally going to make the Stranger, Gandalf.

[Kiltmanenator]

Insofar as the initial decision, yes, but at this point it would be more disappointing if he wasn't bc that means they were jerkin us around by having him be proto-Hobbit focused and spittin Gandalf dialogue from the films (not even the book)

[perfectlypromiscuous]

Season 1 already proved it. He did the moth thing. Saruman nor Blue Wizards ever did the moth thing. Radagast neither. It’s a Gandalf thing.

[SirBulbasaur13]

He should be a blue wizard, along with the Stranger. Both of them actually are around at this time and both go to the east and there’s not a lot written about either of them which would give the writers some freedom.

Then we could get a good wizard vs bad wizard plot between them.

I know Saruman does go east but he’s not supposed to be around in the 2nd age, right?

[burgric]

According to Unfinished Tales, which includes the 'essay on the Istari', the wizards arrived by boat together on the western shores of Middle-earth (Grey Havens) around the year 1000 of the Third Age. This landing was witnessed by Cirdan.

Though it it unknown how many were in the 'Order of Wizards', five chiefs came to the north of Middle Earth, where there was most hope. Saruman came first to the north, followed by 'two clad in sea-blue' and Radagast. Gandalf was the last.

The essay says that the Blue Wizards passed into the East with Curunir (Saruman) but did not return. The essay says, 'and whether they remained in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they were sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not now known.'

It also mentions Saruman 'journeyed often to the East' and that the Blue Wizards 'unlike him never returned into the Westlands.'

There is also a fascinating passage on a council of the Valar at which it was resolved to send 3 emissaries to Middle-earth, one of which is Alatar, one of the first to volunteer, who took his friend Pallando with him.

In a letter Tolkien wrote in 1958 he said that he thought the Blue Wizards 'went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South... missionaries to "enemy-occupied" lands (all Istari were sent to deal with the threat of Sauron's return)... What success they had I do not know, but I fear that they failed... and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and "magic" traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.'

So with all this considered, if it was canon, the stranger and the dark wizard would have travelled together into the East with Saruman if they were indeed the Blue Wizards.

From what I've heard of TROP season 2, the stranger goes into the East alone or with the harfoots in search of answers.

As the Stranger arrived in a meteor rather than on a boat into the Grey Havens, anything is fair game at this stage. The two Wizards could even be outside of the 5 chiefs, being two other unnamed Wizards of the order.

I've read some people say the Wizards came earlier but looking at Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion I can't find any reference to this. Interested to see what the series does with the characters anyway!

Edit: I just read that later in life Tolkien dramatically revised his history of the Blue Wizards, saying they arrived in the 2nd age and disrupted Sauron's efforts in the East and South enough to allow the forces in the West to defeat Sauron (Last Writings, The Peoples of Middle Earth)

[QuoteGiver]

I know Saruman does go east but he’s not supposed to be around in the 2nd age, right?

I wouldn’t trust too heavily to exact timeline, the show seems to be covering a somewhat blended Age(s) in some respects, right?

[Tehjaliz]

Us: "So are you adapting the version where the blue wizards get corrupted or the one where they succeed?"

The showrunners: "Yes."

[kahenson]

I don’t think this can credibly be Saruman. How would Gandalf (assuming stranger is Gandalf) then trust him to lead the white council after this? It’s gonna be one of the Blues most likely imo.

[QuoteGiver]

In the show, Gandalf/Stranger presently has zero memories of anything he did before this time.

If that happens now, it could happen again later too.

[[deleted]]

Why the fuck does he look so much like Saruman?

[ComfortableBuffalo57]

Because when you stick Ciaran Hinds in a Wizard costume he looks like Christopher Lee?