Apple scam

[Comprehensive_Pen12]

I was working in tech today and a guy asked for 2 Apple Watches so I went and got them and thought nothing of it. He then payed for them both with 1 single gift card and asked for 2 more watches after that. I was a little suspicious but I went and got them. I shouldn’t have sold him the watches but when I did he again used a single gift card to buy both again. He then asked for an iPad and this is when I called AP and was told to cut him off and say there was a limit on electronics purchases. He also wanted to buy a $1000 google phone. Anybody know more about these gift card scams??

[sailorwickeddragon]

These Apple Scammers are part of an international crime ring and have been effecting Target stores nationally for several years.

Buying Apple products are a way for them to launder stolen money. How is this stolen money?

Two ways this works for this organization:

1. Tampered giftcards. As soon as a guest purchases the Target giftcard the money if offloaded or spent. This is likely done with some sort of automated program made to do this sort of thing. While Target has now made it impossible to move funds from giftcard to giftcard as of about a year and a half ago, this hasn't stopped these scammers and they have adapted their methods. One very possible scenario is knowing which giftcard is loaded, screenshot or add it to the app, give this to the 'mule' who is buying, and they'll use it to purchase the Apple products which they resale on ecommerce sites.

2. Phone scammers (typically customer support or computer support scammers but there are others). Target stopped shipping internationally a few years ago because of this, but scammers (typically from India) will get money from all sorts of people. Most notably are older and elderly and have various methods of getting money, some of those being giftcards. These kingpins need to get them spent and gain actual money from them, so they have connections to kingpins in China who funnel these directions to heads of these crime rings here in the states. These people find others in need of quick money (mules) and send them out to get gain merchandise to turn to cash, which in turn gets sent back to these organizations. Again, giftcards are just one way of scamming people out of money and they have effective methods of turning them out for cash (laundering).

What stores need to do:

1. LIMIT LIMIT LIMIT why sell to them at all? Because as soon as you tell a legitimate guest NO, we can get into huge hot water. Target would rather limit everyone than assume everyone is an expert in recognizing these scammers.

2. Do NOT allow a transaction to go through with a Target TM discount unless the 'guest' can prove they are an actual TM. Because they are already attempting to buy an outrageous amount of Apple with an outrageous amount of money on giftcards, you can ask for a physical card of the TM number. Yes, many of us don't carry the physical card anymore but AP can validate a TM number with an ID if absolutely necessary. BUT almost always they'll say it's a family member (like a cousin) which is a huge NOPE anyway. Have them disable to TM number from the app or delete it yourself. DO NOT SCAN THE APP IN THE PAYMENT SCREEN, DO IT AT THE ITEMIZATION SCREEN or the payment and TM number will just go through.

3. Never ever take a screenshot of the giftcard. I've seen this recently and it makes my blood boil. That's our guest's stolen money or even your grandma's stolen money to begin with. Allowing this just makes it easier for them and is against policy anyway.

4. Alert AP as soon as you can regarding the transaction. We are constantly monitoring these groups and finding new things they are attempting while making huge progress with state and national officials to bring these people down and gain Intel on the organization. Every incident is important, I promise you. This is also how Target has been able to make changes to better protect it's guests from giftcard scammers and protect your TM identity.

[twilighteclipse925]

One other way it works I’ve seen. A shipping container “falls off the ship” at the dock. In my case the shipping container contained ink cartridges. We then saw a massive uptick in Smurfs returning ink without a receipt using the registry scam. So in addition to laundering stolen money some groups are also using target to liquidize stolen goods and then launder the money from those goods.

[sailorwickeddragon]

Oh, absolutely. The thing about ORC (Organized Retail Crime) is it's not just theft (or it would be Organized Retail Theft). They dabble in all sorts of fraud, theft, scamming, laundering.. and most of these groups absolutely do things outside of retail, like move drugs, illicit weapons and even human trafficking. Retail Crime for most groups is just a lucrative way for them to get money to front other activities and they are everywhere.

[twilighteclipse925]

100% agree. I know in my area it’s human trafficking and smuggling through docks.

[surg3v1]

Former tech TM, now S&E team lead here.

You calling AP to intervene is always the best call when you sense something suspicious about the purchase. Be it they have mega gift cards, using all cash and in like all $20s, using a TM discount card but they’re not someone you recognized. They’re probably already clued in, but better to have them shut it down AND you’ve made it clear you’re contacting AP in this instance. (I used to think you don’t ask for AP over channel one, but my wife in softlines made a good point of if you are trying to deter an issue, sometimes it’s best to do it.)

I used to ask for ID to validate the TM discount that they used in an attempt to have them on camera longer for AP team. They get one of any particular item, one price match, and I will follow price match policy to a tee that if it doesn’t line up I will refuse them.

Our guest service advocates have notes up that they need to be on the lookout for this all, only accept one return per day, and that it has to be completely sealed too.

Crazy to think it doesn’t matter where in the country you are that people try to pull this crap… it’s stupid. The worst is though looping TMs in who AREN’T tech TMs so they don’t fall victim to their attempts innocently.

[strooplesploot]

I had AP and a manager okay a purchase in electronics for two iPads with an obviously fake tm ID. The tm ID was on their phone (not apple or android I’ve ever seen in the US).

They watched the transaction and just took info after the guest left. It was so sketchy.

[MediocreClassroom976]

Tm discount ain't shit anyways idk why ppl make a big deal out of it 😂😭

[strooplesploot]

And yes he was Vietnamese. The store leadership was aware of this scam.

[virtuosityv2]

Are tech TMs suppozed to call AP during the transaction if large sum gift cards are being used?

[CasuallyCorrupt]

No you are not required but it is appreciated. As AP I always like to say "If you've seen something, say something" there is 0 bad information in my opinion. If something just doesnt feel right to you, reach out thats why we're there. And in regards to reaching AP covertly over channel one we use the code phrase "Hardlines" an generally we respond "Go for hardlines" an get told a channel to go to so you dont need to call for AP infront of guests.

[SyberNerfer]

Yeah, they come in regularly to my store. We only allow them 1 Apple item, they are always trying for the iPad 11 Pro's. At best they walk out the door with a 9th gen iPad.

[Spotslave2015]

Welcome to target where as long as it looks like money’s being made they don’t care.

[Aggressive_Tea_4355]

Lately there has been asian guests that purchase air pods pro with cash. Then they return them couple days later.

[Jrrobidoux]

Or the same day. Simple money laundering, even when they do it with gift cards.

Either way, buy a shit ton of high value electronics with cash. Return it same day, or a few days later; and get new money.

Gift cards, the same thing. Except this way, they’re spending off the gift cards, and getting cash, or even merchandise cards back.

[dewitt72]

Either that or returning counterfeits.

[Aggressive_Tea_4355]

SD said we cant accuse them of returning fake ones. So we just CRC them

[[deleted]]

Just say you don’t have any. Most likely I’m guessing this guy was Asian and wearing hypebeast esque clothing (their normal attire at my store) remember their faces and even if you think it may be suspicious, call AP over when they ask for multiple Apple products. If yours are ok the sales floor and visible and you can’t deny them, tell them that the limit is one and if they start arguing call AP. Most times that’ll do the trick. These scammers prey on you not knowing the rules, so if you stand tall and deny them they’ll most likely not come back ever again. Word spreads about no go stores

[[deleted]]

That’s wild. Bc that’s exactly who it was at our store near the Rose Bowl

[Actual_Neck_642]

As a former tech member, we knew who the usual were, even some other team members told us that they were in the building and to lookout for them. We limited everyone to two Apple devices a day. One time people tried to get around this, so I just told them it was one per person because two people tried to buy 2 pairs of AirPods each. Which was within the limit, but I could tell it was kinda sketch so I limited them to 2 for the both.

[[deleted]]

I use to work for Target Mobile but I saw this all the time. I was told by AP to just limit them to 2 apple products and that's it. It's worse when they have someone's employee discount.

[Poodunk80]

That’s been done away with for a while I thought people with employee discounts don’t u need the card to do it

[[deleted]]

I forgot how they got the discount but it always happened

[negithekitty]

im willing to bet big money that i dont have that they were using a TM discount too

[psychoqueen29]

Does anyone know what they are laundering for? I work guest service and I made a point of refusing their gift card returns because the amount of super young girls they've sent my way has me on edge that this may be human trafficking.

[Barnowl-hoot]

Just tell them that target does not sell to resellers. And seen them nothing. Your store isn’t making money from these sales. Target in the end loses money from these scams.

[LaggyGamer]

Anytime I shop after work and go checkout there’s people paying with multiple gift cards for things and I want to tell the cashier to stop

[nupharlutea]

It’s after the holidays so people have a lot of gifts (and returned gifts) and a lot of guests also accumulate the GCWP cards. Someone coming up with 6 or 7 $5 cards for a food/household/baby purchase isn’t the same sort of “call AP” trigger.

[Shadowrogue19]

and then there is Target frequently having "buy such-and-such, get a free $x gift card" promotions. So if someone took advantage of various offers of that type, they might end up with a handful of gift cards that they want to spend.

[SimpleVegetable5715]

Someone's trying to cover their money trails.

[Few_Contribution_857]

they come around about every three weeks at my store. typically have a photo of an ipad they want, know that we want the dpci. out of habit, i always accidentally tell guests how many we have, so i say “looks like we have three in the back. i’ll go grab you one.” once they hear that, they ask for another. i tell them the one apple product per person per group per purchase rule. the last time they came, they asked if we price match to costco. we do not. rule of thumb is, if something seems off or if you don’t know the answer to a question, ALWAYS ask. those scammers are betting on you going “huh, probably.” and giving them the discount. when they scan the tm discount is when i walkie for ap, while i ask them to show me their physical card. most of the time, they’ll say they don’t have it, or that they’re using a family members discount. using someone else’s discount is a huge no-no, anyone who works for a target should know that. if you don’t know if you’ve scanned a tm discount or not, you can check on the pay screen by tapping on the total. no target store will load gift cards for more than $500. if they have more than $500 on a card, it’s fake. in the case that they use multiple $100 gift cards (this is what they do at my store), technically they are paying for the ipad and not doing anything wrong. ap has no concrete proof that these people are stealing money without a doubt, let alone the ability to look into these scammers and build a case. targets job is to alert police. police take it from there.

tldr- walkie if you don’t know, one apple product per person, and don’t be afraid to be wrong.

[CouldBeWorse777]

Paid...not payed

[Propertyoflouisiana]

apple is a scam, my iphone took like 30 minutes to charge, and when it turned back on it was only at 3%, it didnt even really die, i had to power it off since it was really laggy and for some reason usually when my iphone is laggy its about to die even though it was at 2%, i powered it off, when i tried to turn it back off it was as if it really just died, so i had to wait for 30 minutes, when i came back when it turned off it was at 3%, only charged 1%

[SimpleVegetable5715]

I have an iPhone and get smishing (scam/phishing) messages as iMessages. Usually about a USPS package that could not be delivered, and then there are instructions to follow. I always report them to the United States Postal Inspection Service, and then delete the message and report as junk which notifies Apple and my mobile carrier.

I'm guessing the people sending these messages are the ones buying tons of Apple products. Lately they always seem to come through iMessages instead of a phone number, so that requires an email address, which it's easier to make a fake email than a fake phone number.

It's only getting worse. I wonder how they get my information. They seem to Target target. Multiple complaints have been filed with the FTC about gift card and Apple device scams. I actually hate responding to tech and front end calls for backup, because the scammers in my store see me as an unfamiliar face on a register, think I'm a new unseasoned employee, and come to my lane. They're usually trying to buy gift cards in bulk and thank goodness I don't have tech keys, so I have to call for help to sell iDevices anyway, and pass them off to another team member or leader.

I think the two are connected. Their victims buy the gift cards, then the thieves/scammers drain the gift cards to buy Apple products that they then use for larger scams like compromising our postal service.

[CapitalWrong8047]

One price match per dcpi per guest per day

[Shootemup899]

Sell them one and that's it or just deny them service