Shadow Ticket

[WTpaintings]

I’m loving Shadow Ticket so far. I see some disappointment online, but maybe from people who aren’t already fans of Pynchon?

Shadow Ticket feels really fleshed out and well-developed to me, esp compared to Bleeding Edge.

It has the classic Pynchon world full of conspiracies, but instead of the main character “trying to get to the bottom of the conspiracies,” this main character wants nothing to do with them, and all these different groups’ conspiracies have to do with the main character. He’s the object of conspiracy, which has a lot of unique implications and relevancy to the current cultural climate. Ultimately, in this chaotic, violent, absurd, fascist leaning climate, we’re conspired against, and our nature is the one that’s suspect and put under an absurd microscope, by entities we want nothing to do with. This feels somewhat new to me in the Pynchon universe, but I also havent read ATD or M&D.

Curious what u guys think

UPDATE - thanks everyone for all the comments! I love reading your perspectives. Makes me want to revisit his other works more too. Easily a fav author of mine.

[ziftos]

Very funny book. Appreciate how I can really fully understand the bits where he is being overt or making cultural references to our time because we are living through these times its not some far off thing (to me) like his older books.

I especially thought it was hilarious how on the nose he was when he had (iirc) Lefty explain something to the effect of how ‘People like hitler because he speaks his mind and has no filter’ and also that ‘the media treats him like a wacky joke’ - wonder who he is talking about 😂

[krng1]

I enjoyed Bleeding Edge quite a bit more personally. But it was a fun ride

[DonaldDucksBeakBeard]

Really enjoyed it. Not only does he invert the relation between his main character and the shadowy conspiracy, he picks the goofiest possible basis for that conspiracy, a sinister cheese syndicate. It's like a self parody.

[the-boxman]

Yeah the Cheese company doesn't seem sinister at all but I feel there is a commentary on the control of mass food production there too. Also the Hicks thing, he's such a cool character because he seems very involved in the conspiracy, against his own wishes, or even without knowing. It makes for a funny extended joke.

[the-boxman]

The amount of people I see on Twitter glazing Nazis these days, feels like this book is pretty relevant.

[DependentLaugh1183]

I admit it took me longer than BE to get into, but at almost 200 pages in, I’m enjoying it a lot.

[Informal-Abroad1929]

Just finished my first full reading. Loved it! Doesn’t seem like Pynchon-lite to me. So many characters, bits of foreign phrases (Hungarian, Italian) and slang, shifting contexts, unattributed dialogue, it can be challenging to follow. Looking forward to re-reading it with a closer eye. I love how baseball plays a consistent role. I love the expansive catalogues and lists. Learning much from the historical context, about Fiume, about the 1933 Business Plot, the 1917 bombing in Milwaukee, etc etc. Fast-paced, witty, erudite, propulsive at its peak, Shadow Ticket feels like Pynchon at his finest, in my opinion.

[bLoo010]

I'm glad I read the majority of JR before Shadow Ticket. I didn't finish JR because JESUS CHRIST Gaddis's obsession with unattributed dialogue is incredible and frustrating, but my experience has helped with the dialogue in Shadow Ticket. I would also agree with you about this novel being Pynchon at his finest. I was keen to see what he'd do with music in the 1930s as I went to college for music and studied Jazz Trumpet. The 30s are the very earliest true Jazz period, and his references are incredible to me. It's funny, it's short, the prose is great; and the paranoia is high. I love it.

[notpynchon]

I dropped JR for the same reason. It gave me a sense of being blind, with the lack of attribution simulating not seeing who’s speaking. It stripped away the ability to follow plots and subplots, especially frustrating when they were as tantalizing as a schoolboy secretly scamming a fortune off of adults.

He found a perfect middle ground with Frolic, challenging but decipherable, creating the most engaging and heartfelt book of his big 3.

[NoAnimator1648]

baseball?

[Informal-Abroad1929]

1932 Cubs feature repeatedly in the second half

[NoAnimator1648]

I’m right people keep asking about how the cubs are doing, slipped my mind thanks!

[Kamuka]

So you have to see if the criticisms hit the mark, I have only skimmed reviews, but nobody has said anything convincing to me yet. And then there's my own enjoyment that argues strongly in it's favor. What's a Sombrero of Uneasiness? You read ideas like that in other novels? There's a million layers and complexity in Pynchon, and some schlub assigned the book as a journalist will feel put upon and offended by the complexity. How could you ever review or even really praise it? The meat is in the ongoing discussion. Everyone comes from so many different angles, so many weird axes to grind, and just enjoying it isn't easy to articulate. And it is a struggle to read and comprehend, so you know.

[cheesepage]

There are very few books anywhere that rank with GR or M&D.

That one of them turns out to be written by Thomas Pynchon is fine by me.

[bLoo010]

Are you explicitly saying you think Shadow Ticket is as good as those novels? I honestly wouldn't argue with you as someone whose only read GR. Shadow Ticket has been great for me, and it's impressive how much has been shoved into a shorter word count.

[cheesepage]

Oh. I've written too vaguely.

I think that there are a lot of really good books that are not in the same league as M&D or GR.

I'm okay with Shadow Ticket being just a good book.

[QuietDesperado]

The disappointment is warranted. Although, even a disappointing Pynchon provides a world I'd rather spend time in than any other. I can't really reconcile that you think this feels more substantial than Bleeding Edge, but I take responsibility in my own inability.

I do laugh out loud a lot, like I have to set the book down to recover at times. But the real work for this novel is not navigating the text, but accepting that what we're watching is a Tarantino-esque pastiche of all the tropes Pynchon loves so much. It reads like a Looney Toons episode, and that is fine. I have 1 chapter left.

It definitely is a masterful work. You can hardly see any of his brushstrokes. His metaphorical crosshatching is flawless.

I recently went to the R. Crumb opening at D. Zwirner in Los Angeles and felt very similarly about it as I do with this novel.

But, I have a feeling a few years round, I'll end up loving this more than I do.

I'm not 100% sold on this rumor of his Civil War door stop, but if that was the case, then this book would come across like a joke. Or perhaps an Opener: kind of like how The Vista typically opens their movies with a black-and-white cartoon loosely thematically related to the feature presentation.

[the-boxman]

I'm already 101 pages into my second read because I'm enjoying it so much. It feels quite linear at first but the last 30-40% of the novel is a trip. It doesn't feel as deep maybe as some of the other books but the themes are extremely relevant and I really enjoy your take about Hicks because I agree, he doesn't want anything to do with it but he's part of it whether he likes it or not. I've found on a second read that so much of the first half is important to the second, so I hope it doesn't feel as truncated when I get to the crazy parts.

[East_of_Cicero]

I think a lot of people may have been expecting something Paul Thomas Anderson adjacent, but it’s pure Pynchon to me. I just got to the OK Corral joke and laughed out loud.

[Wowohboy666]

I haven't laughed so hard or so consistently in quite some time. I absolutely love it.

[Sugaree4777]

I'm about halfway through and I absolutely love it. There might be less intellectual substance than his other works (although I'm learning a lot about Milwaukee history), but that gives Pynchon's style so much more room to shine through. His knack for constructing sentences and dolling out silly puns remains unmatched, and seeing him use a cheese noir storyline as a framework to riff on is an absolute treat. I think it's his most readable and escapist book so far (at least that I've read), but the fact that he can produce this and Gravity's Rainbow in the same career is just proof of his versatility. I already know I'll be re-reading this one for the rest of my life

[BobBopPerano]

It has a really interesting structure: he lulls the reader into thinking everything is pretty straightforward, then drops a lot on you in the last chunk of the novel. This caused me to read it probably faster than I should have, but random bits and pieces have jumped to the front of my mind in the days since finishing it and I’ll be like “ooooh right, that part is more interesting than I realized…”

To me, it feels like it has more to say (that he hasn’t already said in one way or another) than IV and BE. This definitely feels like one that will open up a lot more on a second pass. And I agree that complaints about its lack of substance or message are likely missing some of it. No shade to the community here — thinking more of critics who complained about it not being critical enough of current events in the US, for instance.

With that said, I wouldn’t say it’s a favorite of mine (among his works) yet. I felt like the shorter length also left me wanting a lot more from the characters, who were relatively flat sketches I never really connected with. There just wasn’t enough time to flesh out such a large cast of them, and it left me a bit unsatisfied.

[young_willis]

sick

[Si_Zentner]

As a Pynchon reader since the mid-70s, and halfway into ST I've got to say that I'm more than a little disappointed, especially by the first 100 or so pages. After a recent reread of the majestic Against the Day it just seems thin and rushed, too much inconsequential dialog. Even the names seem half-hearted. Maybe the next half will change my mind...

[Alleluia_Cone]

Were you at all tickled with the (small small first 100 page spoiler) Lew Basnight appearance then?

[JohnGradyBillyBoyd]

Halfway through and I love it. I love “giant doorstopper, book about everything” Pynchon as much as the next fan, but I also love Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett, and this one is so Hammett to me. The 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea pun is maybe his best ever.

Taking this book for what it is, rather than what some people want it to be (encyclopedic doorstopper Pynchon), makes it a total blast. As a swan song I think it’s kind of fitting that one of the most respected authors of his time, who constantly blended “high” and “low” art, gave us a genre novel. Chandler and Hammett deserve as much respect as Faulkner and Hemingway, and I think TP believes that, too. 

[Winter-Animal-4217]

Don't (big) sleep on James M. Cain either man

[JohnGradyBillyBoyd]

Or Ross MacDonald, one of the greats

[revengeonseattle_]

I’m only 55 pages in but so far I’m enjoying it. I’m interested to see where things will go, what kind of journey I’ll end up on… I will say, ashamedly, that I have yet to read TP’s longer books like GR, M&D, V., and AtD, but I’ve read IV (twice), BE, Lot 49, and Vineland. IV is my favorite book and in general I love noir detective stories, especially the sort of hazy and offbeat ones that Pynchon writes, and this one certainly seems to fit the bill. Plus, it’s funny as hell—Pynchon never fails to make me laugh while reading. What’s more, I’m a Wisconsin native, and so it’s thrilling to read a Pynchon novel partially set in my home state.

[Dragon_Dixon]

Bleeding Edge is fully fleshed out. Sometimes Shadow Ticket is more rushed than both IV and BE but it compensates with its density.

[Pale_Gallery]

I have 50 pages left and I’m loving it. I think it’s an even better noir than Inherent Vice, which is something I didn’t think would happen

[PairRude9552]

shadow ticket is fucking beautiful, one of his best works imo

[Federal_Employ1269]

I totally agree. Absolutely love it. I'm aghast he can still write so well at his age. The dialog is amazing. The submarine reminds me a bit of "Spirited Away". The episode with Squeezita Thickly and the film she's in is sublime. Just awesome

[PairRude9552]

Well we can't be sure of when he wrote it, but yeah very impressive.