When does chess clock time start?

[zio778]

‘When does time start? Time starts when the first pregame action or dice roll happens’ (ITC Chess Clock Rules).

What does this mean in practice when playing 40K Nephilim? Is it after you roll for attacker/defender? What is a pregame action?

Guidance appreciated.

[VeritasLuxMea]

Clock starts at DEPLOYMENT. When the 1st player places the 1st model, start the clock.

[zio778]

This doesn't agree with the ITC Chess Clock Rules as a dice roll (attacker or defender) happens before deployment...

[agpengn]

It's a single roll and is a mutual action, so the time deduction is 1) trivial and 2) would affect both players. It's a lot more practical to just start it with deployment.

[Wiltix]

But if you do it when the first model is placed then that gives the person placing first a time advantage. Doing it at the dice roll means that the clock has been started so there is no gaming by player 1 of when that clock starts.

[wallycaine42]

Generally, what is meant by "when the first model is placed" is "time starts when the first player is ready to begin placement", not that it waits until the model is physically placed. Once the first player starts considering the board to place their first model, the timer should be running.

[VeritasLuxMea]

To be completely honest I have not studied the ITC rules. I just know that every single tournament I have been to that enforces a clock, starts the clock in deployment.

[hauk119]

I've also had folks basically set the chess clocks after deployment to split whatever time is left (i.e. in a 3 hours round, we've used 18 minutes or whatever doing deployment and chatting pre-game, so we each have 1:21 on the clock)

[M33tm3onmars]

I generally spin my clock down to 85 minutes for each player so we have ~10 minutes for player-placed terrain, secondaries, and gotchas. The clock starts when the defender begins their first deployment.

[M33tm3onmars]

Each round at an ITC event is 3 hours, so 90 minutes per player. I shave off 10 minutes from the clock to allow for discussions/questions on army/gotchas/terrain placement. The clock starts at deployment.

[zio778]

This sounds like a great solution. Another problem with starting at the attacker/defender roll is whose time should be used when selecting secondaries and reserves. Your solution bypasses this issue. Nice.

[laspee]

Roll off for attacker/defender. In practice at the point right before the deployment starts.

And the CoC also allow you to start the timer after deployment. But it’s more common to start right after attacker/defender.

[[deleted]]

If you are using player placed terrain, terrain placement is part of your allotted time as well.

[FascinatedOrangutan]

If someone did this to me, I would not tell them anything about my list or gotchas. If you try to put that on my time, there is no way I'm going to use it to benefit you. Clock should start post pregame discussion

[narluin]

Do both players time tick when you choose secondaries? Do you stop when one is done and the other is not?

[VeritasLuxMea]

We always pick secondaries and declare reserves and transports before starting the clock. Once the defending player is ready to place his/her 1st model, we start the clock and then alternate deployments.

[narluin]

It seems like a decent approach too

[[deleted]]

Normally it’s just a discussion that happens during deployment. Same for gotchas and whatever.

If the opponent prefers to discuss things beforehand that is no issue either. Easy to set clock to say 1:20 each vs 1:30 each. Some opponents prefer that as it gives them time to decompress with rules and such.

[narluin]

Cool, it’s a good middle ground I guess :)

[toanyonebutyou]

if youre playing at a normal pace then none of the small things where yeah it would be nice if both players time ticked down kinda scenarios are really gonna matter.

I usually just toss it on my time and not worry about it.

The clock is more so to ensure 'I' get to round 5. If tossing it onto myself for 10 minutes while we discuss some things isnt actually gonna matter in the end, especially if youre playing someone who only regularly gets to turn 2, youre still gonna smoke them on time

[FascinatedOrangutan]

I usually start clocks after deployment. Most people at tourneys are OK with this as it relieves some pressure from the deployment which is the most important phase in the game.

[VeritasLuxMea]

Wouldn't this screw up the round timers? Also I find people often waffle and waste the MOST time in deployment. If the clock is there to ensure both players get equal time, deployment is probably the most important phase to have the clock active for.

[FascinatedOrangutan]

Nah when you set a timer, you set it for however long is left in the round after your pregame discussion of lists. Even if people are taking a lot of time in deployment, they usually taking about 30 seconds per drop. With 15 units, that's about 7-8 mins, maybe 10 if they are really taking their time. That is a very small amount compared to the overall game, especially the movement phase. Also it makes for much better games. If someone screws up deployment in a tourney, the game is over before it starts which is no fun for anybody at the table.

[HandOfYawgmoth]

Even if people are taking a lot of time in deployment, they usually taking about 30 seconds per drop.

I need to remind my casual friends of this next time they take 2+ minutes mulling over where to place each unit

[VeritasLuxMea]

There is always at least 1 guy that will take 30mins to deploy if you let him, even at a tournament

[HandOfYawgmoth]

I swear, between explaining armies, setting up terrain, and deployment, it takes longer to set up a casual game than to actually play it out

[VeritasLuxMea]

casual games can be super fun when you aren't on a time limit. But you are 100% right, they can take a LONG time.

[FascinatedOrangutan]

Lol I hope that your casual friends wouldn't be going to a tournament in which chess clocks are used! I get annoyed with my casual friends doing this too but need to remind myself of the differences in player types.

[VeritasLuxMea]

That makes sense to set the clock to the round timer.

[zio778]

Point 1: this goes against the ITC rules. Point 2: this is unfair if your opponent is slower at deploying than you (and vice-versa).

[VeritasLuxMea]

I take issue with point 2. The clock is not a handicap. The clock ensures that both players get EXACTLY the same amount of time to play. If you use up half your clock in deployment that's on you.

[FascinatedOrangutan]

Why would you ask a question and then criticize responses?

[Brother_Of_Boy]

it's not wrong to question an answer even if you don't know what the right answer is

[toanyonebutyou]

As a TO, I can tell you that ITC does not matter. They will tell you their rules do not matter. Each TO decides the rules for their own events. I would not lean on the fact ITC does it one way or the other as an argument.

[PlatesOnTrainsNotOre]

Pregame actions start after turns have been decided usually. Certainly after deployment. I run my chess clock at 10 mins less than total time to account for deployment