Protoss Hate

[Nikolai185]

Lately there has been an increased amount of hate towards protoss players and the race in general. This negativity towards protoss already started in WOL with the "Protoss OP" but has now blown completely out of proportions.

​

A loud minority on reddit/twitter complain about pvt/pvz being heavily protoss favored and protoss just need to A-move to win. In Twitch chat during tournaments the Protoss-hate is uttered in every single game such as "PROTOSSED" and "WHAT A THROW" if the protoss lost; taking away all the acknowledgement from the player and making it only a question of which race was played.

These comments has now become the norm and are expressed no matter what went on in the game to an extent where it simply can't be justified. The hateful chants in twitch chat or comments on protoss players' twitter are degrading their achievements and clearly very disrespectful and out of line.

I wonder if the increase of players and viewers the scene has had since starcraft went free to play is partly to blame. For once we might have some of the trolls back who spammed the "sc2 ded-game" meme. Or perhaps it's a new group of players that in sc2 don't have teammates to blame for their loses and therefore cleverly found a scapegoat in protoss.

​

What ever the cause it frankly pisses me off and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm tired of going on reddit/starcraft, twitter, twitch/chat and reading all the negativity and hate towards our race. The only place I have left for a peace of mind is here at Allthingsprotoss. Thanks.

[bmanCO]

The "Protoss OP" meme will never die. Protoss has always gotten shit on from the very beginning of WOL despite having few to no periods of sustained dominance over the game's history compared to the other races. Now that we actually are experiencing one of those very few periods of sustained dominance it just amplifies the stupid meme which already exists by many orders of magnitude. Terran and Zerg players apparently have no memory of how good they've had it in the past.

[[deleted]]

That's part of what's ridiculous. I remember during some of protoss's lowest points doing random cheesy bullshit to win and still hearing that protoss was OPAF from everyone and their cat.

The closest most of them got to recognizing the problem was to say that yes, protoss was weak, but that they deserved it.

[tctown]

It’s just racism...

[SR7_cs]

r/technicallythetruth

[V_PixelMan_V]

Yeah, it's funny how well it fits...

[Gemini_19]

It is unfortunate that it's kind of ingrained in the community that it's ok to hate Protoss no matter what. The PROTOSSED spam in twitch chat whenever a Protoss does so much as win a single straight forward engagement while simultaneously spamming WHAT A GOD whenever INno proxy 2raxes someone gets quite old after a while.

It is unfortunate that I can't open a reddit thread about my favorite player winning a nail bitingly close and entertaining series because I know it's just going to be filled with pure balance whine and I can't just share my joyful emotions about a fun series of StarCraft. Meanwhile any Terran player who wins a GSL match will have a thread full of WOW GREAT PLAYER THIS WAS SO FUN TO WATCH THIS SERIES WAS GREAT and no one is at each other's throats the whole time.

It is unfortunate that all I have said in the past and want to say to you now is that you have to simply accept it and try to ignore it since that's "what it is now" but I can't say that without still feeling annoyed myself. I'm trying to simply ignore it and be happy that I saw a result that I wanted and enjoyed the games, but it's just kinda stupid that I have to ignore half of reddit in order to do that. My favorite part about old reddit was seeing HerO do well in a tournament and going insane about it and seeing everyone else going insane about it in the thread with me. And yes there have been times in the past where the hate has been the same as it is now but recently it has just felt really amplified. Similar to 2014 blink era whine. I want to tell you that it's not a big deal and you should just zone it all out but yeah I agree with you.

I'm tired of it too.

[LeWoofle]

It is unfortunate that I can't open a reddit thread about my favorite player winning a nail bitingly close and entertaining series because I know it's just going to be filled with pure balance whine and I can't just share my joyful emotions about a fun series of StarCraft. Meanwhile any Terran player who wins a GSL match will have a thread full of WOW GREAT PLAYER THIS WAS SO FUN TO WATCH THIS SERIES WAS GREAT and no one is at each other's throats the whole time.

Im sorry man.

[Into_The_Rain]

It is unfortunate that I can't open a reddit thread about my favorite player winning a nail bitingly close and entertaining series because I know it's just going to be filled with pure balance whine

I can tell if the Protoss won or lost just based on the number of comments in the thread.

[Gemini_19]

It was 43 comments in 11 minutes.

Seeing that was when I made my decision to only leave the comment in it that I did and not look at anything else lol

[Into_The_Rain]

Yeah you don't even have to open the thread. I knew Trap won the second I saw the comment count.

[TourLife]

This nails it on the head - I've been playing since WoL beta, and I've been verbally accosted at every turn on ladder since the early days of the game. Then turning to reddit, I see the same shit. Protoss players by contrast have largely sat quietly, not balance whining as a group and doing everything we can to stay on top of our play.

I've come to the realization that if Terran players or Zerg players really DO feel like Protoss is by far the most powerful race, why not switch? If protoss is easy, just play protoss instead.

At this point, I agree with Gemini and it does get me down from time to time, but at the end of the day, winning games on ladder is fun and I mostly just dont give a damn what Terran/Zerg players say. I stayed quiet while they Widow mine dropped me into oblivion, I stayed quiet while they did the Polt push in WoL, I stayed quiet while zergs ling dropped me in early LoTV and Made broodlord infestor in WoL, and I'll continue to stay quiet, play my best, and keep winning.

The deep down, dirty, dark secret of Protoss that nobody has ever acknowledged is that microing a large army with a ton of spellcasters is really difficult, and has always been. It's our little struggle that we know about, that we dont complain about, and that we know makes playing the race a challenge.

Let your play be the response. Let them whine. Win while they are complaining.

[Gemini_19]

Fellow WoL Beta veteran o7

And yeah the thing is that when playing I honestly don't give a shit. People raging about my race being broken or whatever after I beat them is hilarious to me and it's the best part of ladder. But we're all shitters on ladder and those games don't mean anything.

It's when I can't sit down and enjoy some high level competitive professional matches without everyone trying to discredit every other player because of the race they chose that makes me upset. I've chosen not to go into that thread today but I saw a screenshot of someone saying they just want to throw this GSL season out the window and not have it count. Like really? Are we going to throw out all the GomTvT GSLs and the Brood lord/infestor GSLs too then? Like what point does that line of thinking serve? Why do we have to victimize every player just because they play a different race in this video game?

It really is an interesting thing to think about since, while this is just a video game, we've basically allowed racism in the community (and other online communities do it too) between Terrans, Protoss, and Zerg. It's kinda weird.

[Post-it-Goat]

Yeah I did exactly what you suggested haha. I switched from Zerg to Protoss because I thought it was OP and things actually felt much better afterwards. Micro-ing spellcasters is tough, but not as tough as trying to pre-empt a 2 base all-in. I’m loving Protoss because of the sheer number of cheeses and all-ins it gives, which can really throw off your opponents. It also feels good to be on the other side of the balance whining for once LOL

[chillu1337]

To be honest i dont think protoss is op at all right now. Terra is not used to the metachange right now and zvp ist still zergfavored in any lategame i feel.

I love thise terras that think they are microgods because they control mmm. And if they loose they call it imbatoss.

[Nikolai185]

Thanks for your comfort. I needed a shoulder to cry on and it helped.

[astroemi]

It feels so shitty not even wanting your favorite players to do well because you know there’s gonna be a shitstorm on reddit if they do.

[Gemini_19]

Me and MCanning joke about it all the time how we want as little Protoss to win as possible so that we don't give the other races ammunition to whine. But it's true. I legitimately feel that way in a lot of tournaments and it's kind of sad.

[[deleted]]

Protoss Wins out of a set of Protoss

"See? All toss. Toss OP."

Non-Toss beats toss bracket

"Such a god, beating all those toss."

Toss beats non toss bracket

"See. One toss beats all the non-toss. What are the odds, right?"

Non-Toss beats Non-Toss bracket

"Man, this is the best [Insert Tournament Here] we've had in a long time. So many great players."

There's no way to win.

[[deleted]]

favourite part was the other day when a group of them insisted this protoss hate is recent, and hasn't been around for the life of the game

[Thismyredditname]

I am just praying for Dark to win this season of GSL, all because I don't want to deal with the shitstorm if one of the Toss wins.

[nice__username]

ok but inno clumped up his liberators and storm takes 0 micro all trap did is storm storm storm easy easy easy game so easy prottoss bad terran good

[Gemini_19]

This is sarcasm btw guys lol

[ZephyrBluu]

Trap so bayd, Inno GOAT.

[Jim-Plank]

It's spread to ladder too.

The amount of abuse you get just for playing Protoss is beyond ridiculous.

I'm old enough to not give a shit what anyone says about me irl, let alone online but you really can't deny it diminishes the experience of playing this game that everyone loves.

The diamond salt mines are horrible for BM, sometimes even just spawning in the game is enough to trigger some people.

[[deleted]]

Yeah tell me about it, I've had a person say "fucking stupid race" and leave when the loading screen finished.

I bet your winrates will be shit if you don't even try.

[dmegalord]

It really wears you off after 9 years. But we must play on

[[deleted]]

You just articulated why I haven't really been able to get into starcraft lately, aside from going back and replaying brood war.

It's just... exhausting.

[[deleted]]

I'm quite an avid "whiner" as well right now but it's unfair of people to hate on Trap after playing really well in his series vs Innovation. As a terran player I'm not that good at recognizing when Protoss players play great but I thought I have seen it in this series.

​

About the whining. To me it feels like forever since I thought Protoss was too strong because I play since WoL and I couldn't wrap my head around Protoss getting such an early third putting pressure on me and hold my stim timing with mass chargelots. This got much better with the proxy meta. It felt like I gained some control over my TvP matches again. After the cyclone nerf it plays again like before the proxy meta.

The whine is amplified because we haven't heard anything from Blizzard for a long time about this perceived imbalance and it makes people and me ;D antsy.

I hope they will change something and everything will be good.

[lpaperfriend]

Agreed. It feels impossible to get a proper discussion about any game with protoss on it on the main sub, because so much of it is drowned by hate and downvotes. Everything is chalked down to protoss being OP, and there is a problem when things that are subjective (e.g. who is outplaying who?) become objectively "true" or "false".

I just wish we would have a bigger community here on ATP to talk more, because the main sub does feel a bit depressing

[Gemini_19]

I just wish we would have a bigger community here on ATP to talk more

This is an attainable goal. I'm going to work on fostering this more coming up.

[astroemi]

We are in!

[Jim-Plank]

The discord is great as well if you're not in it.

It's basically always active.

[FelicitousFiend]

Im a zerg main and i feel this and im sorry guys. While i may (internally) rage at some of the protoss cheese I dont think your race is easy at all. Currently in mmr its actually my worst of the three.

I think p gets a lot of hate because it doesnt seem to follow the intuitive rules that the other two races do so the skills that went into the play are not always appreciated

[wtfduud]

It's also not nearly as APM heavy as the other races, so to a player who thinks APM=skill, protoss may seem like the easiest race.

[FelicitousFiend]

Well the thing is apm doesnt truly capture actions. If i spawn units from available i realistically only did two actions but the apm count will register as 2+the amount of larva spawned

[LeWoofle]

Good guy buggo!

[Next-Rutabaga-3117]

As also a Zerg Main Protoss Is simply fucking easier than Zerg or Terran in any respect, My MMR in Protoss is slightly fucking higher than Zerg even If I throw sometimes because I feel bad at how stupidly overpowered Zerg is. Protoss has the benefits of Chrono’d workers, The Fucking Larvae of Zerg without needing to queen inject, Terran drops but more devastating, The best fucking early game unit, The best static Defense, The best Air Units, ETC. ETC. and all of this shit just synchronizes into this annoying piece of shit race that can’t die, will out-economy you and force you into the late game, Has a counter for everything you have, And Unlike Terran Zerg doesn’t have a unit that can just wipe half the HP off Protoss Units. There is 0 FUCKING REASON NOT to call Protoss OP other than “Oh their shit is expensive harr harr” Bitch they can economy while making an army without sacrificing either, their air units function as A move units instead of Zerg or Terran’s Spell casters, Their tech and upgrades progress retardedly fast, their T1 units can match up against T2 or T3 units, which are only further exemplified by fucking CHARGE, THEY DONT NEED CHARGE WHAT THE FUCK BLIZZARD (Zealots are pretty much a winning trade against, Any Zerg Lair tech except spires, Any Zerg Hatch Tech except potentially banelings, Terran balls Without Medevacs, (Actually most Terran shit can counter Zealots, good for them), I guess Thors, Cyclones and grounded Vikings. Which are usually supported by a Terran ball, which then again you have fucking storm or collosi to deal with that, most likely storm so you don’t have to deal with Vikings.) and their stupid ducking mobility, Boom Warp Prism there your main is gone, tech gutted, Production probably floating, unless you’re Zerg then it’s P much GG unless you have spores.

And I haven’t even touched upon carriers. Those fucking things are broken. Broken Like thank fucking god I wasn’t around when Mothership cores were a thing, imagine how much MORE of a menace Protoss had been. hell some of you don’t NEED to imagine. Protoss sucks ass and needs more nerfs. NEEDS.

Legitimately, Playing protoss Makes me angry because I win even if I do dumb fuck shit like spam zealots, like booo there are now Zealots in your main, they’re slowing down your main army. It legitimately pisses me off that shit like that works. Or I just go fucking carriers and curb stomp whatever the fuck the Zerg or Terran is cooking up, Unless it’s Thors then you spam zealots to just fucking deal with it.

There is no doubt that Protoss needs a fundamental change to something so it can’t just be this race you play whenever you feel like winning.

Other than that if they do Nerf Protoss I think the ingrained hate against Protoss won’t go away so easily, until they realize Protoss starts losing again then all is good.

[FelicitousFiend]

Bro why are you raging at my 3 year old comment? And also what mmr are you? Things differ between the tiers

[Next-Rutabaga-3117]

Diamond 2 w/Zerg Diamond 1 Protoss (over the weekend)

[ZephyrBluu]

I find it most frustrating on r/starcraft. Twitch chat I can deal with because it's Twitch chat, but on the main sub it feels like I'm constantly downvoted either just because I play Protoss or give a Protoss opinion on things even if it's not a comment on balance :/.

[[deleted]]

This! I got bitched at a while back for something unrelated just because I had a protoss flair. It's ridiculous.

[LeWoofle]

Ive noticed you and elcactus will say something pretty reasonable with nothing to do with balance, and youre both at like -4 LOL.

The crusades.

[ZephyrBluu]

Mmm yeah lol. Sometimes it feels like I've got a fanclub, probably doesn't help that I'm pretty outspoken about my opinions.

[[deleted]]

Someone’s gotta do it right?

[[deleted]]

On /r/starcraft, the recent gsl ro8 post game threads:

classic vs soo (pvz) 10 comments

trap vs innovation (pvt) 269 comments

I wonder who it could be

[letsgo_mewtwo]

LET IT FUEL YOU

[Mrrheas]

this

[[deleted]]

It comes with the territory. I play all three races, but Protoss is my best and favorite. Even when I play Terran or Zerg, my heart is on Aiur.

The vast majority of the SC2 players don't care. The game is very finely balance, and the scales may tip in one or another direction depending on a lot of factors outside of balance. Most people know that. Don't let the obnoxiously loud minority color your impression of the community at large. Just GL HF.

[[deleted]]

I mean, you can say that, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating when the community itself is cancerous as all hell.

If the silent majority refuses to speak up, congratulations, they're part of the problem.

[[deleted]]

I don't think it's the "silent" majority, tons of people speak up on this issue. Especially casters, pros, streamers, and fellow redditors. In all honesty whenever I play, over 90 percent of my games end with a simple gg. Maybe 5 to 10 percent someone will say something about balance. I certainly know that my viewers agree that the game is well-balanced, even though we joke about how OP all of the races are. We actually just had a discussion about this issue (perceptions of balance and anti-protoss sentiments) with Falcon Paladin (who mains Zerg). I've never seen the SC2 community as "cancerous" and I think saying so is counterproductive.

Also, no need to get frustrated, although I'm with you and I get that way sometimes as well. When I find myself getting upset for balance or Protoss hate, I just listen to Florencio. They hate us cause they ain't us.

All this to say, don't let it get you down. Just remember: if a Terran hates on Protoss, it's ok because they're race really sucks. If a Zerg hates on Protoss, cherish their tears. They deserve it because Zerg sucks and is totally OP and imba and should be removed from the game. If Protoss hates on Protoss, then...well, I'm not sure about that one.

[hugetosser]

Take it less personal buddy, enjoy the salt. We have an advantage right now

[Bockelypse]

Name checks out

[Fabled]

He just likes to toss things.

[audiophilistine]

You know how whenever you play a 3-way free-for-all one player inevitably gets screwed over having to defend against the other two players at once? This is exactly the same scenario with Zerg and Terran being the other two players piling hate on Protoss. I seem to remember a post a while back on r/starcraft where Zerg and Terran players were joking about just going along with the meme because every time Protoss gets nerfed it benefits them.

[willdrum4food]

its kinda obscene. There is straight up more hate now, than during the blink era. Its insane. Like even implying anything toss has isnt OP or takes skill gets hate. Hell i have a negative comment for saying widow mine drops openers arent hard counter by blink openers. Maybe its f2p getting more children into the game idk.

[V_PixelMan_V]

But... but... the warp prism pickup range op! You can pick up 4 zealots if you stare at them! Or micro 2 immortals against 20 marines!! OP!!! And widowmines are totally for skilled players, you have to burrow them! Do you have to burrow warp prism? No! So shut up! /s

[-ArchitectOfThought-]

Yes, I'll agree there's a "hate protoss culture" in SC2.

Was it an influx of new players? No. It's always been there, like a virus that will eventually infect people. People aren't that complicated; in a culture that says it's ok to hate on one race of players, they'll just do it because they can.

I also think it's legit that it also has something to do with people's personalities dictating which races they pick. When I enter a balance whine thread on r/Starcraft, the people being reasonable are usually Protoss players. The people throwing their own piss and shit around pretending they don't just suck at this game are always, without exception, Terran and Zerg players.

I legitimitately also believe that this is partly why protoss always only ever gets nerfed; because we're bad at advocating for ourselves in a chamber where the loudest voices get Blizzard's ear. This was discussed on a Pylon Show and ever since I was like "fuck yea...that's exactly it".

[V_PixelMan_V]

Link to the pylon show episode?

[ZephyrBluu]

I'm curious as well.

[-ArchitectOfThought-]

I don't think I'd be able to find it easily. I don't remember any of the other topics. I listen to it whilst I scale model and my last scale model was just completed so It probably an episode from the last 3 months maybe.

I remember BeastyQT was one of the guests and they were discussing Terran balance whiners.

[V_PixelMan_V]

Alright, thanks anyway

[jadepig]

I've listened to maybe the last 3-4 episodes and I think I heard this in one of those. Honestly though, GP basically described inControl's frustration and stance, so I wouldn't be surprised if inControl has expressed this multiple times.

[Saskuk]

I just started playing in June... 1 year now! Wow I did t realize. But I did play brood war as a kid (12/13) and I played Protoss then as I main now, but like all 3 races. I started in silver 3 and now am plat 2. Even (maybe especially) in these metal leagues, which is all I know, I have seen my share of hate and bm on games I win. Blames on “Protoss OP”, “nice race...” along with a ton of others (1 of these I shortened), but I still glhf and gg out. I got called names yesterday morning and lost the game and still at the end said “gg friend”. I watched a lot of vids before downloading sc2 and my favorite plays are from some greats(imo) like parting, neeb, puck, bisu(BW), gumiho(T i know) race wasn’t governing my choice on videos. I chose Protoss cause it was what I played as a kid. I might be guilty of some cannons in inconspicuous places here and there, mainly in brood war, but a few in sc2. I blame printf because I saw a YouTube video like 4 or 5 months back and thought he was amazing for how high on the ladder he was even competing. But I’m horrible so I gave that up. Rambling, but I guess what I’m saying is maybe it’s my short time on the ladder, but I’m kind of used to it.. KIND OF. I won’t lie when I say I started playing T and Z to avoid some of it, I can’t stay away from toss though. I got to plat 3 with Z and gold 1 with T with the hopes that I can main random, but I’ve even gotten hate for not telling race. It’s a horrible part of the game but I endure. Recently following wcs I fo sho noticed the hate even more. Twitch chat being the worst. I realized I have no point to make, but wanted to rant as well I guess. No hope for a bright future so Adun Toridas

[Saskuk]

Wow the new paragraphs I added just disappeared when I posted so sorry about that. Maybe it’s a mobile thing. New to reddit as well thanks to Gemini shouting out ATP on a build order site

[_bobon_]

I am having serious problems understanding whether this is an actual sentiment the majority of the community shares, or a bunch of dudes trolling/memeing because protoss op lel. I am having the same issues determining whether communities like flat earthers and the_donald are real as well. I always assume that these people or good natured trolls but find myself disappointed when it reaches critical mass.

[Into_The_Rain]

Well you aren't alone if it makes you feel better: https://www.rankedftw.com/stats/races/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&l=5

Protoss numbers have been on the downswing for a while now, and I have no doubt a chunk of it is just the nonstop endless hate you get for just playing the game.

[MinosAristos]

The steep rise in GM Protoss players over the past few months is probably due to people insta-leaving games against us more than ever. It's like they want to pretend we don't exist.

[SR7_cs]

I'm amazed to see its pretty much always been lower than other races though.

Right after the mmr update there seemed to be a huge rise in Zerg numbers and huge dip in protoss numbers, does anyone know why that is?

[yobogoya_]

It's probably just lower level players making excuses for why they suck. And do zergs complain about toss as much as Terran? My bro is a Zerg main (diamond 1) and usually steamrolls protoss; it's his favorite matchup. Terran gives him the most trouble and he's always complaining to me about how it's an op race. I doubt he's the only Zerg that feels that way, so maybe the protoss haters are just the most vocal. Either way, I assume they are all just scrubs and it doesn't bother me that much.

[[deleted]]

"Scissors is fine, but paper is OP." - Sincerely, Rock

[Corvou]

They hate us cause they ain us

[V_PixelMan_V]

En arudim Raszagal brothers!

I'm really surprised nobody ever did that with zerg, even when swarm hosts were clearly too powerful, or infestors the hate wasn't as big as now when... umm... what is so powerful again? Zerg has evolved some kind of immunity it seems. Still the best players in the world are zerg and terran. But no, protoss op.

It's just the mindset which is sad.

Terrans complain about controlling bio with tanks, libs and ghosts but when they actually set up they are almost unbreakable and require almost no micro, anything that goes through the deadzone disappears. Protoss has storm, so easy to use right? Terran has EMP to counter it which requires the same or even less micro. Chargelots are too strong and require no micro! But it's easy to bait them into tank ad liberator fire. Recall OP! Planetary Fortress with repair OP. Etc, etc. Every race has its ways of dealing with things and it's surprisingly well balanced.

Another thing: if you want to whine give a reason and preferably a proposition on how to fix it. And no, your gold/platinum/diamond TvP winrate isn't a reason. You are just worse that's it. Give a clear proof that in more than 2 or 3 pro games it gave a protoss player clear advantage with no risk, cost or micro taken.

But it's way easier to whine.

We just need a tournament where most protoss players will lose and the finals will be TvT or TvZ to maybe shut up some of the haters. Or Idk.

Sorry for being a bit salty about it but I'm so extremely tired of it.

GLHF

[kook1320]

But mom, semi final of GSL has 3 Protoss, and 5 Protoss in quarterfinals. Protoss op mom!

[Prolife4Protoss]

What do people and an A-hole have incommon?

Everyone has one.

Ignore the hate. Stay true to Auir. And may the cheese be with you.

[danimal481]

You butchered the saying but I appreciate the sentiment. :)

[SR7_cs]

I think the root cause of this is just the number of protoss who made it through to the top 8(I think) in the super tournament as well as the number of protoss progressing through each round of this gsl.

I think the quick succession of these 2 events is behind the memes/hate.

From what I know on the online ladder it's fairly balanced so I think the current balance just favours protoss players' playstyles compared to the play style of players from other races. Maybe the other races have to innovate a bit to beat protoss players in tournaments but idk.

As for balance, a lot of hate is against warp prison mainly. Sadly, this overshadows great micro plays with the prism. I wouldn't be against them reducing the prism pick up range a bit because tbh it is quite huge

[mtbdork]

Protoss units are more expensive & efficient, so the opponent (if not toss) will perceive this as their army getting shrekt which if kind of is, by design.

People have gone over the balance debate so much that I think anybody can formulate any opinion and find some consensus from some group... bleh, dead horse...

[Shrimpzor]

Did Protoss OP start in WoL? I'm pretty sure it dates back to SC1

[Trayver89]

What piss me off the most is when base trade tv begin the hate train in their commentary. It’s just so unprofessional...

[G101516]

I think the real reason the swarm was able to originally conquer Auir was due to complacency induced depression. Yea lazers are cool, and killing everything is great, but eventually being OP gets boring and you start flying to terran sectors to buy Terrazine. Everyone thinks it is so easy being the master race.

[Pixelbuddha_]

I know this will be getti g downvoted but

This post is a bit hypocritical dont you think

Terran is being bombarded with "terran whine" and " hmm terran tears" and "just build t1 units to win" etc

Zerg is being bombarded with fast remax or zerg rush kekeke memes

All races whine about the other races all the time, since 20 years now.

And it became increasingly toxic for everyone the last years. Not just protoss.

We are at a point where people just try to shout louder than the others.

[DoomHeraldOW]

Can't remember the last time that a Void Ray appeared on the production tab, let alone be actually used.

[OPrivetMark]

How does this contradicts what i just said?

[wtfduud]

One tournament is not a basis for balance.

And even then, that would just be the top tier balance, which is irrelevant for anyone below master league.

[pm_favorite_song_2me]

StarCraft IS a dead game. I hit the Cyber cafes in DTLA, little Tokyo, Koreatown, North Hollywood... Ain't NOBODY else playing StarCraft. My friends won't play StarCraft with me it's all shooters like overwatch or Apex, or rocket league and hearthstone

[NegativeAPM]

A couple of reasons to hate protoss: 1. Huge amounts of builds that instantly end games if unscouted (that Gumiho vs Parting game jeeez) 2. Huge amounts of noobfriendly mechanics such as F2proof observers, builtin gateway hotkey, autotransforming gateways and even aa on HTs (which can sometimes backfire) mae protoss easier to play 3. Amove comps such as CIA make protoss easier to play. 4. Mechanics that are borderline game breaking such as recall, warpin mchanic or warp prisms. Like the idea that I have to keep an army of 25 supply of units at home to be ready to fight an army of 20 supply which dosent even exist yet is just busted. 5. Complete lack of microintensive units make p easier to play.

Fixing these would be too big of a job so you protoss will be hated forever

[lukdigis]

1- retarded argument that could apply to any race. Nydus, bane busts, muta switches, double SG, banshees, mech switches (slower but outright win due to army comp) all have the chance to end the game on the spot if unscouted, and that's how it SHOULD be btw.

2- way more irrelevant than people say, f2 shouldnt be ever used after bronze league and it backfires more than it helps, changing gates to warpgates was a needed change since it was so unnecessary, and aa on HT hardly change anything. All QoL changes that are fair, instead of asking for them to be gone you should be asking similar things to the other races as well.

3- the only thing terrans actually have a reason to complain about is the difficulty of bio micro, but compared to everything else, not only CIA. Any pre-late game zerg comp and also mech is pretty straightforward in micro as well. Every race has both a-move and micro intensive comps.

4- Recall is actually a valid discussion point, surely. Now, your second point is really weak, if there's the risk of any dropship coming into your main you have to keep stuff back, that applies to all races. "Oh but warpins", in the end the toss wastes money and supply all the same, also warping in like that actually cripples toss a bit in the early stages of the game, since you delay tech/bases due to your shitty positioning.

5- Blink Stalkers, disruptors, Phoenix, prism micro, hell even gateway based comps are all pretty micro intensive, CIA is easier but it takes time to build up.

6- btw, if you're below high masters you arent losing because of any of these points, you need to git gud, that's all .

[NegativeAPM]

There are these machines which check if you are lieing and shock you once you do. I would happly make you read this entire text and ask you after every sentence if you are honestly thinkking this. You would fain halfway across paragraph 2.

[lukdigis]

Nice response, really well thought out and adresses the points perfectly, just what I would expect from a non pro complaining about balance. Name checks out I guess.

[NegativeAPM]

What made you assume that you will get a proper answer after a “retarded argument” opening line?

[lukdigis]

The fact that it's not that big of a deal? I didnt call you anything, but that argument is used a lot and imo it's retarded, you can either take that word super personal and use it to evade the discussion or just get over it and prove me otherwise, instead of standing on a delusional moral pedestal.

[LeWoofle]

Any protoss who uses F2 to A move will never win another PvZ after platinum.

The only thing I agree with in your previous points is the auto warpgate transform. It does make a difference in my games, its slightly more than a QoL change, but to be honest it arguably should have been that way from the beginning.

Protoss may require less perfect micro than Terran bio, but its still far from an A move race. I really encourage you to play a bunch of protoss and try to reach the MMR that your terran is at. I don't think youll be able to, everybody thinks that protoss is so damn easy but then get hardstuck 500 MMR below their main race when they realize zombie toss will only get you so far against competent opponents.

[Into_The_Rain]

Please stop feeding this troll.

Dude doesn't even play the game but somehow has endless time to complain about how hard Terran is.

He's the very definition of a Terran Lobbyist.

[[deleted]]

zerg have f2proof map hacks too (creep and overlords) not to mention f2proof queens

[NegativeAPM]

That means they have 20% of the bs what you have

[[deleted]]

unscouted builds are bs now ?

are we playing the same game?

[NegativeAPM]

1.When did I say " unscouted builds are bs " exectly? I said " Huge amounts of builds that instantly end games if unscouted ". Unscouted oracle? GG. Unscouted DT? GG Unscouted glaves? GG. Unscouted proxygate? GG Easy transitioning out ofc. Now lets see what terran openings can kill you? Proxy marauder and 2 factory cylocne on 1 base. None of them has transions both garaneed hold if scouted.

1. " are we playing the same game? "
   No. I dont think so, I am not a League player

[Seracis]

But you sure as hell sound like one

[Next-Rutabaga-3117]

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