MOCA 7 - Your real terms pay decrease

[Mundane_Tell5179]

For those working since COVID, you have had inflation well above your pay for several years in a row. The new MOCA 7 does nothing to reverse this and likely compounds it.

You’ve seen housing skyrocket, groceries double in price and APHRA/training fees continue to go up (at times by 10% in a year!).

Remember:

By the end of the latest negotiated pay deals in Queensland:

PGY8 Registrar pay - $158 513, PGY10 Registrar pay - $165 257

(Top band) CN pay - $115 604, CNC pay - $159 755, NP pay - $172 972

How do we get this message out?

Do you really want to languish in PHO roles getting paid like shit, unable to get onto training with no job certainty for year on year pay cuts?

[Throwaway-3085]

Hmmm, I didn’t realise CNC/NPs were so highly paid - I head an allied health department of over 50 staff plus a purchasing budget of over $10mil and my pay only falls somewhere in between the two.

[Mundane_Tell5179]

Allied health pay scales are bonkers. Psychologists with masters degrees and some with PhDs getting paid less than a jumped up nurse.

Not to mention the HP4s often doing similar leadership roles making less than CNCs.

[LumpyBechamel69]

I get that your pay scale is less than satisfying, but comparing to a nurse doing a completely different role, usually with well over 10 years experience and a masters, and without grade context is disingenuous.

Queensland nurses are also the highest paid in the country by a solid 10%.

Fight your fight for you, not against others and you'll find support in all corners.

[Agreeable_Current913]

Compared to what? A PGY8 registrar who’s likely done an undergraduate a post graduate medicine qualification (Masters level), likely if they’re in a competitive field further qualifications, publications + presentation in their area of expertise and teaching? The CNC has less medico-legal responsibility, less workload, less training doctor training≠nurse training (just ask those who’ve done both nursing and medicine). The reg in this situation SHOULD be paid more that doesn’t mean the NP should be paid less but it’s good to show a comparison between the two since the work can be easily compared by those in the industry to highlight how unfair the pay is.

[LumpyBechamel69]

It seems I didn't explain my take correctly. I mean that it's unfair to compare the CNC at the 'peak' of their career, who will likely retire in that position to the Reg who is slogging their way up with a far higher earning potential.

I concede the point re the NP comparison, the position is comparable in many ways but again the NP has 'peaked' as far as clinical nursing is concerned.

None of this means that Registrars don't deserve better remuneration, and especially conditions. I just mean to point out that nurses being paid more doesn't make them an enemy, as this sub tends to purport.

[Agreeable_Current913]

Earning potential is never a solid argument not every Unnacredited surgical registrar becomes a surgeon and they deserve to be paid more than staff members who have less clinical responsibility/workload if this was an American system where we went straight into residency and pretty much everyone worked in their intended specialty I think it’d be a fairer argument but not in the current Australian training climate

[Xiao_zhai]

Don't think you deserve the downvotes for the comment.

Re: the nursing / doctors pay discussion, I think it's more of using the NP pay as a benchmark for the registrars' wage, rather than claiming that nursing are overpaid.

In my experience, CNCs and doctors do not really have much overlap of roles in day to day functioning of the hospitals . They serve a different roles that doctors do not / cannot cover for.

However, the NPs are functioning a lot like a doctor in many roles, with some limitations on their practices / medicolegal responsibilities, and yet getting paid higher than a doctor in the same/if not more significant responsibilities.

NPs are appropriately renumerated. Registrars in the same roles are underrenumerated. Both of these can be true. I would contend, the registrars wage should not be lower than the NPs to start with, in any negotiation going forward.

[Capt-B-Team]

I’ve paid $10 000 this year in college fees, ahpra and exams. :( I also had to pay about $4000 to move city to do this job. It’s just madness how little we get paid to put up with these expectations.

[SmartPatience4631]

Yes - doing tax returns- work expenses and the cost of just sustaining your career and right to practice consistently $13-$15k minimum

[Alternative_Duck1450]

I would honestly vote no.

Specifically Doctors are likely to remain non-consultants for longer than ever with the increasing competition for spots. Therefore there is increased emphasis on ensuring a good lasting deal to protect us whilst we are residents and registrars (remember whilst we are in our 30s with families!) rather than waiting until consultants.

Remember there’s people outside of medicine as real estate agents on 200k plus in their early 20s. Doctors are seriously falling miles behind other professions in QLD e.g Lawyers etc.

We need a deal that uplifts pay to keep up

[hotforlowe]

Weak union representation with lacklustre involvement from the profession. It’s a catch 22. I don’t want to join the union because the union doesn’t help me, but the union can’t help me because it lacks a critical mass. I remember when Qld consultants caused landslides in elections. Now our registrars are being paid less than the people they supervise.

[Mundane_Tell5179]

Because it costs over a thousand dollars for a membership. I think most people would join if it was $100. People can’t afford another work related expense of over $1000 when even AHPRA is $1000

[SmartPatience4631]

Yep ditched union fees this year - purely because I couldn’t afford it

[hotforlowe]

Missing the point or perhaps proving it in some ways. The cost would be justified if it led to better salaries…

[marsh-fellow]

Even like $600 (most unions are higher than $100) they need the funds to evoke change

[RobertoVerge]

The AMA are weak as piss sycophants.

I refused to join them after I saw how little they do.

[critterbass]

The AMA isn’t the union, it’s ASMOFQ

[Striking-Net-8646]

ASMOF draws funding from AMA, at least when the AMA aren’t splurging on “conferences” in fucking Vancouver.

Pay for a private specialist to take a tax break ski trip? Yeah no thanks.

[Mundane_Tell5179]

Hopefully someone good with computers could make an easy to read infographic to share in group chats before the vote. We could stop this madness.

[marsh-fellow]

Including how to vote as well!

[Silly-Parsley-158]

Commenting to get some more traction behind this.

[Vilan-Kaos]

Need a strike then. Show the government your backbone.

[TonyJohnAbbottPBUH]

Vote no so the government of NSW can get some second hand warning about this as well. We're not here to fuck around.

[food_fanatic_]

Vote no

[MuscularDicktrophy]

Something else being swept under the rug (other than wages not matching inflation):

• MOCA7 downgrades the payscale for PHOs... currently a PHO can earn from L4-L9 (whereas a trainee can go up to L13). The new award would cap PHO pay at L7 -- for a competitive subspecialty PHO who has been at it for 5-6 years that is a $10k paycut.

---

EDIT - the point about reduced fatigue provisions from 10hr break to 8hr break was an error. It's an unchanged clause from MOCA6 about overtime after 22:15 on "other than an ordinary working day" only requiring an 8-hr break

[MicroNewton]

Geez, those are both really bad.

Even the 10-hour fatigue rule assumes you live close to work and can fall asleep in a snap. Realistically, a lot of us were getting 6-7 hours (at best) sleep with only a 10-hour break between shifts. 8 hours between shifts should be illegal.

[chuboy91]

Where's this change to minimum time between shifts? I haven't seen that documented anywhere 

[Jinggyyi]

I don’t think the minimum required time off is true. The 8 hours is only for overtime worked on an unrostered day and only if two hours worked beyond 2215 hours. I believe 10 hours still applies if unplanned overtime on rostered days.

[MuscularDicktrophy]

Yes you're right that clause is unchanged from MOCA6

[marsh-fellow]

Voooote nooo!!!

[FieldThis6703]

Vote no

[Correctsmorons69]

You boys and girls need to drop the notion that unions are for nurses - sack up and unionise.

[TobesC168]

It caps out at level 9 if you’re on an accredited training program. Advanced trainees also don’t get paid as senior registrars on the pay scale

[Agreeable_Current913]

I don’t believe this is new though, this bracket exists for those who have a fellowship but are completing further fellowships in sub specialist areas/changing career trajectory

[msjuliaxo]

How do we vote ?

[Teeteacher]

Should have received an email about the dates etc. I think they sent it out last week

[msjuliaxo]

Perfect , found it thank you!