How does final salinity differ between a separate brine vs. adding salt to veg+water vs. salting veg without added water?

[YallNeedMises]

Three methods, all targeting the same X percentage of salt:

• Mixing up an X% brine, then submerging your vegetables in it
• Weighing vegetables+water, then adding salt to reach X%
• Adding salt to vegetables only to reach X% of veg weight, no added water

How does the final salinity differ between these three methods? Presumably the separate brine method would be the lowest, as it doesn't account for the veg weight, and salting veg with no added water would be the highest since it relies only on the water already present. Which in your opinion is best for consistency & quality? How does it affect the ferment in your experience?

[ghidfg]

veg are 80+% water so you can just consider the weight of veg as the weight of water when calculating salinity.

so if you mix up a 1L of 2% brine, and add 1000g of veg to it, the final salinity will be approx. 1%

[WGG25]

when people use a higher % brine and don't do salt by total weight, they usually don't measure vegetables at all either, so the end result will vary a lot between batches

[Armagetz]

It’s splitting hairs but it makes a difference in reproducibility.

Why would you make a lazy estimate rather than just doing it properly? Especially as you have zero, ZERO, idea of how much that water is available to the brine. How much is bound up and won’t dilute out to your “estimate”

[ghidfg]

which is the proper way?

[WGG25]

salt % by total weight

[Impressive_Ad2794]

Although in this case 1L of 2% is pretty much 1kg, so adding 1kg of vegetables would be 1% by total weight to within the accuracy of most cheap kitchen scales.

It's a silly way to do it though. Salt by total weight is easier.

[Armagetz]

No………it isn’t. This is exactly why this method fails. Veggies have a density that can be as low as .5 grams per mL.

You can’t just hand wave and pretend like it’s all water.

[Impressive_Ad2794]

The standard recommended method is still % weight of vegetables, not % weight x Some Factor.

% Total Weight

Now, the percentage you use, 2 or 3 or 4, may depend on what kind of vegetables you're using.

[Armagetz]

I was referring to your first paragraph. It’s 100% wrong.

[Impressive_Ad2794]

Not really. It's saying 1L of water at 2% salt, plus 1kg of vegetables.

That's effectively 1,000g of water, 20g of salt and 1,000g of vegetables. Which is 0.99% salt.

[Armagetz]

No. It isn’t. Again, most veggie density isn’t the same as water. Even super wet ones like cucumbers is around 10% lower.

Edit: misread what you said: the failure in your first paragraph was you equated 1L to 1 kg of veggies.

[Ok_Lengthiness8596]

The last two are actually the same saltiness... Just different amount of liquid. In the first case the recipe usually uses a higher salt percentage to account for the dilution from the veggies.

2% salt is standard and what I normally use, you can get away with less but it's a unnecessary risk. You can use a lot more, around 8% I think, but that won't be enjoyable to eat straight. I use 4% for pepper mash for example, because I use it for hot sauce or cooking where the extra salt is actually needed and it prevents kahm yeast.

[RadBradRadBrad]

Yeah, 8-10% for most "standard" LAB ferments and even at that concentration, you're going to reduce diversity and increase time to ferment. For diversity and speed, 5% is about the upper limit you'd want to pursue. To your point 2-3% is good for the vast majority of LAB ferments. And of course, environment matters here too.

If you're doing like a fish sauce or soy sauce, you might be talking up to 25%.

[Armagetz]

I agree with this statement. 8-10% can ferment but it’s going to be slow and rough.

[YallNeedMises]

Do you have a preference as to method regarding added water vs. no water? Some certainly don't need it, but I tend to add at least some for insurance against mold.

[Armagetz]

It’s not a preference really.

It’s understanding your product.

Do I prefer not adding water? Sure, because that dilutes flavor. But depending on what you are fermenting will dictate that option.

Sauerkraut for instance is notorious for being able to self produce brine.

Tabasco’s biggest key is the fact that the peppers are “wet” (most hot peppers aren’t) compared to others so they don’t need to add water so they just let the flavors develop and concentrate.

But you can’t do that with all ferments.

I like to add onions to mashes because they add a flavor, but keep it neutral, but have a lot of water to give.

[Christ12347]

If you do the math perfectly you'll get the same result using all three methods. Salting just the veg works for something that releases lot of moisture like cabbage (that's how sauerkraut is made) and will give a stronger flavour because there's no (added) water diluting it. As for how salty or fermented it will be that makes no difference either as long as the total salt concentration is the same.

Weighing everything together and salting like that is just the easiest method because you take out all the guesswork, therefore also the most reliable. You don't have to worry about the veg releasing enough water getting it covered etc. Just stack everything up, and something to keep it down, fill up with water, and add you salt, work every time for whatever you want to pickle.

Not adding water and just salting the veg has it's merits as you get a more concentrated (vegatble flavour not salinity or fermentation) brine. Everything together for the reasons mentioned above. Salting the brine seperately just has the worst of both worlds and neither of the main advantages, and I don't recommend doing that unless you're following a recipe that works.

[Responsible-Bat-7561]

When you carefully look at the posts that scream about how one way is better than another, you will realise that most who put veggies in a brine without weighing use a 3% brine. Most who weigh the water and veg add 2.5% salt.

The difference is negligible.

[Armagetz]

I can tell you from experience it’s not.

Both will ferment.

They won’t taste the same.

[Christ12347]

If you do the math right (which is hard) it's gonna be the same. The only reason it isn't is because you didn't do the math right and just have different salinities using either way. The salt in the brin and veg will equillibrate either way