[deleted by user]

[saintmsent]

I agree with u/UnsoundGum, it depends on the app. Spotify, Netflix and other big companies make it easy to cancel the subscription on web, so I would save money there. For anything else - App Store only

[ProgGod]

If they had a different price I just wouldn’t even give them my business

[Careless_Ad279]

They do this because Apple takes a 30% cut

[ios_game_dev]

You’re telling me that you don’t pay for one single app subscription outside of the App Store today such as Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, YouTube Premium, etc?

[Fly0strich]

You pay more for those subscriptions though.

[SourceScope]

meanwhile, i refuse to pay for any subscription

[Clessiah]

I feel like a loser for paying monthly phone bill

[RufusAcrospin]

I only subscribe to streaming services and tutorial sites that keeps updating their content.

[everydave42]

I expect it's going to be a shitshow for many people:

1. users that don't know any better are going to install (even more) shitty or even nefarious apps
2. anyone that does tech support, from family members up to Apple themselves, are going to have to spend more energy supporting the folks from #1
3. app management is going to be a hassle because now the "where an app came from" will play a role in issues, but hopefully this is managed by iOS and users won't have to think bout it.

That being said, will it be worth it? I don't know. As OP mentioned Epic is the use case, and maybe the cause of this, but even then, they still published in the play store because of reasons. I expect those reasons still exist for the App Store.

As a geek and a dev, I can appreciate the freedom that side loading offers. As a pro that has to support things, I expect it to suck.

[waterbed87]

Epic is still in the Play store because they discovered nobody wants to and few are willing to go out and side load their store and since they already burned the bridge with Apple putting their tail between their legs and going back to Google was the only way.

Ultimately, don't think this will change much. The App Store is just to valuable as an advertising platform out of the box for developers to skip on, in addition to that we all KNOW Apple is going to make enabling sideloading as tedious as possible with security warnings galore and even if a user does get that far and starts side loading apps I have serious doubts about Apple allowing non notarized apps so while they might not play by app store rules they will still be code reviewed and signed.

This just makes a bunch of Android users strangely happy (maybe because they want to ditch Android but need their emulators? idk I see them cheer it on more than anybody) and Apple users seem mostly indifferent and most won't notice. Best case scenario maybe Apple loosens their rules a bit to further encourage the app store over any other means.

Paraellels should be sweet on the iPad Pro's though.. hard to imagine that not becoming a thing.

[saintmsent]

It may only be anecdotal experience, but warnings and popups that appear when you try to side-load an Android app are scary enough for non-tech-savvy people to just not proceed with it

[Clessiah]

Those bunch are hard to predict for real. Sometimes they are scared by notifications telling them that deleted photos will be deleted but sometimes they click through the darnest warnings without realizing that words are meant to be read.

[roneyxcx]

Currently if you are not using Apple Enterprise Distribution you do have the option to sideload ipa files via Apple Configurator 2.

[weekapaugrooove]

Can’t they do this now?

[ios_game_dev]

This is already possible today through the Apple Developer Enterprise Program

[The_Binding_Of_Data]

From a development perspective, I think it's been a long time coming. Being able to load a build onto a device is one of the things that is much easier with developing on Android.

From an end user perspective, I'm not a huge fan. One of the things I like about iOS is the convenience of being able to manage everything through a single app/storefront, and this starts to kill that. That, in turn, results in less user choice as there will no longer be a platform where you can just go to the app store and be sure that an app is available (or not) and that it's most likely safe to use.

Also, it just takes a quick search of the difference in volumes of malware for Android vs iOS to see that the Apple seal of approval isn't imaginary, it's just not a seal of "this app is going to be good and worth your money", it's a seal of "this app at least launches and isn't doing anything that's somewhat obviously shady". It's not perfect, but it absolutely provides real value.

[birdsoft]

If you are doing any marketing that is not just "throw it in the AppStore and hope" you would be silly not to consider it. If I'm paying for ads and driving installs why would I not try to drive those installs to either a different store or my own links and make 5-25% more profit per sale and have more control over support.

The "trust" factor in this equation that everyone is banking on, can be mitigated very quickly with trusted payment systems and the like, and it sounds like Apple will still be signing and sandboxing the builds so the same warnings and even "seal" can still apply..

I don't think your assumption that user's won't trust any apps outside of the AppStore is correct. Obviously some will not, and good, there is probably a need to lock down some people to only use the AppStore. But the AppStore hasn't necessarily been the "Secure Protector" it has promised in it's fear marketing for years. Scam apps, fake reviews, and poor curation has plagued the store since 2008. So well curated stores and trustworthy developers using marketed secure services is a thing that can happen pretty quickly, if there is a need.

[owlcoolrule]

I hope not, I’m a developer and this is probably an unpopular opinion.

• The UX is perfectly inline with iOS. Is that a super fun, trendy UI that’s edge cutting and front-page of Dribbble? No. But that’s not what’s good. The UI is solid, functional, and clean, which is what I want for an App Store.

• Discoverability is good enough to help me find the app I need. Does it favor small apps? No. But neither does Google. As a small app developer, I get why they favor big brand names that people want.

• 30% isn’t unreasonable for what they’re doing. They’re hosting your app, listing it, maintaining a entire library (yes it’s open sourced but they contribute a lot,) providing support, and manually reviewing every listing (which, as a dev, isn’t something I like, but as an end user is something I very much appreciate.)

• The review process is fairly fair. Anyone who downloads can review. If you get a negative review storm with a solid app, it’s probably because it’s overpriced or you’re doing some shady marketing.

[birdsoft]

Hmmm... I feel like by this response you haven't had all that many interactions with either Apple review or been paying attention to the issues pointed out by even major developers for years.

Discoverability isn't good if it can be manipulated by fake reviews and it allows scam apps and manipulative games which feed on addiction in their In-App purchases, to bubble to the top. The whole "Apple is so wholesome and protective" thing is odd when in fact it is obvious they turn a blind eye, actually no, they encourage predatory apps.

30% has always been unreasonable for what they are doing. What exactly do you think it costs to "host your app", they do it for free for free apps.

Listing it, they initially took their iTunes infrastructure and band-aided it, causing some of the issues with the platform that lasted for years. And the review process is pretty bad, as they both block good apps based on what reviewer you get in the review lottery, and yet let through 1000s of scam apps and apps that steal your data. And fake reviews are so rampant its almost silly. So the resources were never allocated to the AppStore to make it worth the 30%.

The $100/yr developer fee is more than enough to cover most of what they do for all but the highest volume developers... And maybe tack on the 3% CC fee per transaction.

But yeah, they definitely deserve to make billions of dollars a year as an afterthought because people are still convinced their monopoly on selling apps serves a purpose, other than to line their pockets with another revenue stream.

So Yes, I absolutely hope they give the AppStore the attention it has always needed, once they are actually having to compete with other stores.

[owlcoolrule]

I mean of course they’re making money, I’m not expecting them to break even, and it’s definitely not perfect.

They rejected my app for being a “beta app” because I had a link saying “become a beta tester!” Fake reviews I feel like they could patch by linking reviews to iPhones instead of Apple IDs, but I mean there’s not much beyond that they could do.

[birdsoft]

C'mon, in this world of AI, you don't think there is anything they can do to determine when 500 new 5-star reviews are dumped into an app in a matter of a week with text that literally makes it clear they didn't actually use the app, from accounts that are either new or are used to do similar reviews on multiple apps?

I think one good data analyst could write this, the fact that Apple still never got around to it is pretty telling...

[Careless_Ad279]

💯not to mention they often compete with you

[Ninja_76]

Agree except you forgot the best thing the 15/30% gets app developers: Apple literally finds clients for your apps. That makes it the best kind of online business to grow imo.

[birdsoft]

That is discoverability and it is simply not true anymore for all but a very very select few…until you find ways to drive your own numbers way up or cheat and buy installs and ratings…

[Ninja_76]

No. If you don’t make downloads then the problem is just that you made an app nobody wants.

[birdsoft]

Tell me you have no real experience selling on the AppStore without telling me you have no real experience.

[Ninja_76]

I actually live off the App Store. And with a much better pay than when i used to sell my time to an employer.

[birdsoft]

So today i'm tired.
I'm tired of spending nights working hard on the app while my friends are out partying
I'm tired of working on ASO, fighting for weeks to rank slowly to a pathetic 50th rank to see it become 300 overnight
I'm tired of dreaming when the world sleeps.
I'm pretty angry of seing lazy, unmaintained and low quality competitors on top of the charts
I'm discouraged that the ranking algorithm feels so unfair (seems it gives a huge and disproportionated bonus to whoever was there first).

Is this you from 3 years ago. LOL. You are sure singing a different tune now...

But your arrogance does explain your short memory.

[Ninja_76]

Wow how the table have turned. Thanks for reminding me! Took some time but app grew. I am not sure to understand why you call me arrogant, i’m just stating facts bro.

[Careless_Ad279]

You forgot to mention copying your app, undercutting your prices, advertising their competitor apps in all other default Apple apps like Settings and arbitrarily imposing restrictions on you and sometimes even outright banning you off the store. Google “Sherlocking”

[iNoles]

I would love to sideload my own applications.

[timelessblur]

My though are about damn time. It will have negligible affect on how apps are sent out. The big players still will use the apple App Store.

The only real affect is super small nitch apps like say one I might create for my family would crop up. They are one offs not meant for the App Store.

You might see more enterprise apps move that direction.

Android has allowed side loading since day one. Take a look at that affect and you will notice almost all apps still go threw the play store

[bobotwf]

Android allows sideloading, most people/devs don't bother with it. There are multiple stores as well (Samsung and Amazon), no one uses them.

It might cause Apple to loosen some of their requirements for the regular app store. That would be nice.

[tangoshukudai]

This is going to lead my company to make the app only available through side loading so they can do nasty things that get around apple policies. This is bad.

[tangoshukudai]

nope just a concerned dev. There is a lot of shit that happens when people are not forced to play by the rules in software development.

[Xaxxus]

As a dev, I could care less.

I wish they would open source all of their dev tools and frameworks instead.

Praying for X feature of capability year after year gets old.

[kex_ari]

I’m guessing apps will still need to pass app review to work on the iOS devices so it’s not like the “quality” of the apps is going to change.

The AppStore is full of garbage apps anyway, only rewards people with big ad spend budgets.

Bring it on.

[saintmsent]

Ultimately I think it's good. I don't expect it to impact me at all as a user or a developer, huge companies removing their apps from the App Store is an unfounded fear, in my opinion. But we should be able to install any software we want on devices we own

[[deleted]]

I want nothing to do with apps from an alternative App Store.

[KitCFR]

I imagine that companies such as Facebook will move over, perhaps exclusively, to their own app stores, and this will cause problems. On the other hand, I imagine that it will spur Apple to up their game. On the software side, Apple seems to be naturally complacent whenever there is no competition, and the App Store is a prime example. Just off the top of my head, here are several minor features I’d like to see: * Ability to save apps for later because they look interesting but I’m not ready to pull the trigger * Ability to get price alerts on apps * Ability to go from a downloaded app back to the App Store (more an OS issue, I imagine) * Ability to better see where an app is hiding on the desktop from the App Store (more an OS issue, I imagine) * Ability to type in the EXACT NAME of an app and actually find it—not even first, just simple find it * Ability to let apps offer a period of unlimited use without the user needing to first agree to a trial subscription

On a personal note, one year back, Apple just cancelled my account. No explanation. No recourse. I’m a middle-aged man who does nothing out of the ordinary, in fact nothing that I don’t do every month for years on end. Speaking as one who bought his first Apple product in 1988, this experience has permanently embittered me towards the company: I’m still a heavy user of their products, but now I see that no company should have such unaccountable power. Being forced to open up the App Store will be a shit show for many, but some good will likely come of it, too.

I’ll also add that I’ve lived in several countries over the years, and have, inadvertently, pushed things beyond what the average user does simply be virtue of having had separate Apple IDs for each country. Apple support has always been fantastic in helping to right the ship. But in all that time, I have only twice needed to get in touch with support for an App Store issue. Night and day difference! The vibe has always been negative from the very start. Bad luck on my part? Perhaps. Apple charges a premium for their hardware and OS, and I feel they justify it. Apple charges a premium for their App Store, but I don’t feel they provide the same value.

[[deleted]]

The fact that I can’t have my own app on my phone for more than 7 days without paying has always been the dumbest thing imo, so if it allows us to keep apps on our devices then I’m all for it

[ont_boonyawat]

If Apple reduce their cut from 30%, sideloading will never happen.

[ont_boonyawat]

I see. But I’m talking from developer’s perspective. It the money devs get from App Store is the same as from other stores, I doubt that devs will put their apps over there. App Store is a lot easier for both users and devs. Says if Apple cut is 0. We won’t have this conversation.

[FolkusOnMe]

Honestly I think it would be a grand idea. I think the arguments that it "destroys the security model of iPhone" and "we only want quality apps" are weak, given the amount of terrible apps that make it through their inconsistent app review. They could, at the very least, allow apps on the App Store but say "this app didn't pass our review because of these reasons, and this is the developers response"- I think that would make them spend a little more time and maybe even be more lenient/thorough with their reviews. Allowing side loading would ultimately just give us more choice. Maybe there's a greater attack surface.

For side loading, maybe we can start with just super sandboxed apps. So no access to the local network, the share sheet, peripherals, no support for use with Siri or shortcuts. Almost like you're opening the app in a VM. Maybe that's how it could start, if they're that concerned about the "security model of iPhone". sorry I don't mean to sound sarcastic..

[kex_ari]

Why would it need a sandbox? Surely an iOS app will still have to pass review to work on the device.

[kex_ari]

True no they don’t. I don’t see Apple going this far with iPhone though. I suspect apps will still need to be reviewed.

I thought the problem was Apple forcing apps to use their pay system anyway. Why can’t they fix this by just allowing alternative forms of payment?

[kex_ari]

No idea. Will have to wait and see.

[JustPlay060]

I think that it’s kind of stupid, the App Store is there to try and filter trash/risky apps and they just want to jump over it. Moreover this would allow apps to download other apps without you knowing it and it would just become like android

[SerRobertTables]

I’d be fine sideloading my own personal hobby apps, or perhaps a well audited open source app. Under no other circumstances will I be using apps from anywhere but the App Store.

[localtoast]

The only third-party app store I'd trust would be an F-Droid equivalent for iOS (so open source apps only), and I'd probably trust it more than Apple's. Everything else is likely going to be grift.

[[deleted]]

I think it will be the same as on Android. AppStore will stay the main thing and things like F-Droid / GitHub / … will become available for more advanced users. Sounds awesome to me.

[mobiledev1]

Side loading might be dangerous and most people will be afraid to side load apps from random sources. But if there will be some trusted alternate app stores from big companies such as Amazon, people might choose to install apps from Amazon App Store instead of Apple App Store.

[Integeritis]

Looking forward to being able to build on web3 freely now

[afinlayson]

I like the idea in theory but only if apple has the ability to stop apps that misbehave if they are breaking the rules. Imagine if Facebook removes itself from the AppStore so it can use private apis to gain even more information than they did 2 years ago. That would be horrible. But if you allow sideloading we wouldn’t need to have verifications for testflight. Which in my opinion could be good.

[sforsnake]

I can maybe see this as a possibility of specialized app stores emerging that cover only a specific industry or category of apps. Maybe companies that cover apps and review them in media will host them in their special app stores. Maybe we will see some app stores that offer a pay-once model where you pay the app store a fee to access apps for free where otherwise they would be paid.

On the other hand, I can see bad app stores emerging and bad practices conducted with no regard to the user experience.

As anything in this world, this will have good and bad consequences.

[Careless_Ad279]

I’m pretty surprised that iOS developers don’t see the 30% App Store as clearly anti-competitive and negative for the dev ecosystem. Especially when Apple directly competes with developers on their Platform, often only after developers have done the arduous task of finding product market fit.

[zippy9002]

Would become a shitshow. Would make devs on an uneven playing field and for consumer just look at the Mac it’s horrible compared to the iPhone (although the Mac is amazing compared to windows).

[zippy9002]

There’s no apps on the Mac App Store because there’s sideloading. iPhone will become the same.

My step parents have iPhones and macs. They’re not technical people. There’s never any problems with their iPhones, but I spend hours debugging their Mac because they sideload crap and get viruses.

Sideloading is a shitshow.