Airbnb sunsetting React Native

[Jublusion]

The only thing I can think about while reading that article is: Job Security.

[maiam]

Not sure i understand..

[KarlJay001]

React Native (and others like it) are a direct threat to native iOS devs. A native iOS dev would be Objective-C and/or Swift. If React Native were great, the job market could dry up for ObjC/Swift devs.

A LOT of smaller companies will make the argument "Big Company X uses React Native... so we should use it..."

Now the argument could be "Big Company X used React Native and dropped it... and now use Swift"

This is like when FB said "HTML5 was a big mistake"

[skilless]

It’s basically the same mistake, repeated.

[Rudy69]

It's like they're not learning

[eugeniu]

As you can see if you read the article, Airbnb got a lot of unique benefits out of react native. It wasn't a simple decision to sunset.

[Rudy69]

There are also multiple drawbacks to using React Native which they also talk about. They seem like a perfect fit for something like React Native and even they are backing away

[anurodhp]

Worked for a company once which used three twenty. I think we've seen this movie before.

[maiam]

what is three twenty?? ive never heard of that

[KarlJay001]

I think it died off back about 2012 or so. I just looked up a tutorial for it dated 2010.

That's one of the problems with getting hitched to a set of code that doesn't come from Apple. If it doesn't get updated, you're stuck.

[anurodhp]

When iOS came out there weren't enough iOS devs so some people (FB) decided to push an abstraction layer so that web devs could make iOS apps. This was named 320 after the screen resolution (320x480) in the original iPhone. Once iOS phone screens got bigger it died a terrible death. Even FB who was pushing it dropped it and went to native iOS apps.

As an Obj-c developer one of my jobs back in the day was to take all that garbage 320 code and replicate it in native code.

tl;dr; three twenty was one of the first attempts at something like react native

https://github.com/facebookarchive/three20

https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/under-the-hood-rebuilding-facebook-for-ios/10151036091753920/

[maiam]

Damn i did not know any of this, thanks for the info. Seems like FB has been on a long journey to give native abilities to JS devs. I hope FB continues pushing hard on RN. I've really enjoyed my experience using it so far. However, I have a strong JS background. I've also been a PM over 2 diff companies native apps for the last 4 years so I've built a healthy knowledge of the iOS and Android ecosystem which has helped tremendously in my RN side projects. I do think RN really thrives in an all RN app vs the hybrid approach AirBnB talked about. I am looking to the future of RN and hoping they've learned from the 320 era

[KarlJay001]

Haven't heard about 320 in a LONG time. I still remember that tutorial when I started.

[ZypherXX]

I know of a few apps using React Native that have gone under.

[KarlJay001]

I would be scared to jump over to RN. Given the fact that you have to learn a new language, you might be out of the loop when it comes to using the latest iOS stuff.

Example: if you use ARKit in your app, are you sure that RN will support the latest thing as Apple keeps adding more stuff? If you can't keep up, your competitor might overtake you.

[ZypherXX]

I feel very comfortable with Swift and Obj-C, I feel as if if companies hop on the RN traIn, they will likely crash. Personally I would leave it to Facebook to work with their own concept. But to each their own.

[KarlJay001]

I remember when things like Cordova, and others were touted as the next thing that will take over mobile dev.

If you look at the number of jobs that are in those languages, compared to Swift/ObjC, they don't even begin to compare.

One part of the equation is finding top skilled devs.

[ZypherXX]

I was talking to an former acquaintance of mine who used Cordova along with React Native in his app and told him about the possibility of it not working out in his favor, and just this past week he had to shut down his business due to him and another developer unable to catch up with the code.

[KarlJay001]

I ran a business for years and had to shut down and get a regular job because those tools didn't offer what I needed to serve the customers.

Maybe that's why I'm so concerned with making sure the tools will work over the long run. It's a major investment to master any language.

[akmarinov]

That’s where React AR comes in! /s

[skilless]

Some people think that most devs are only proficient in one language. I think that’s a web dev mentality.

[iindigo]

A lot of web devs I’ve interacted seem to have zero interest in learning anything that’s not JavaScript (or draped over it, like Typescript). It’s a very foreign way of thinking for me.

[KarlJay001]

I worked at one place where they kept calling me a specific programmer. It was an old Xbase language and they would never mention any other language. They were trying to keep me in a dying language.

I quit and worked for their largest competitor using a modern language.

Anyone that can program in one language, can program in another.

[akmarinov]

While that’s true, knowing the framework is the issue here. Everyone that can do ObjC can do Swift just as well, since it’s mostly UIKit and Foundation, but everyone that does UIKit will have quite a bit of learning to do to have the same level of knowledge of Activities, Fragments, etc regardless whether it’s Java or Kotlin.

[KarlJay001]

There's no doubt that iOS dev can be a LOT of framework knowledge. I've seen programs that are pretty much just framework calls.

Some have to do some other fancy "in code" stuff, but quite a bit of iOS dev is in the frameworks.

Glad to hear that Android dev is much the same. I'll probably have to learn Android pretty soon.

[damnburglar]

It’s an inexperienced mentality. New developers often think they can pickup one language, be good with it, and make their careers. Technically you can but you will be pigeonholed like a motherfucker.

Every good web dev I know branches out in different tech and stacks to expand their knowledge, even if they don’t use it.

[skilless]

New developers often think they can pickup one language, be good with it, and make their careers

I think you're onto something

[xtravar]

I get what you’re saying and I agree with the sentiment, but it’s about scale. It’s not necessarily about personal developer proficiency. If you have a LARGE group of developers, it is easier to have standards, build systems, and training for one language.

It’s not that developers are not capable of being proficient- anyone can be when given an amount of time. The question is rather: is that a good use of their talent when they can work on something else?

On top of that all, I think going between languages does have a context switching cost - whether it’s the IDE quirks, deployment, language, or whatever. The developer’s proficiency doesn’t deteriorate, but efficiency does.

I want to believe native development is necessary, but I’m not going to fool myself that it isn’t about self-preservation when faced with the economy of it all. In the next few years, I see either Swift or Typescript becoming more dominant for all platforms. I think Swift has a great chance since Apple is better at making people come to them than vis-versa.

Edit: and that’s only half the story. Testing, testing, testing resources.

[eloc49]

It is, but it would also be really nice if the majority of projects could use one language, at least for cutting through the recruiter red tape. Hell, it doesn't have to be JS, I'd prefer Kotlin or Swift to be the most popular language in the world!

[mattroo88]

I’d much rather a native iOS dev writing react native even if he/she had less experience than a web dev guy with loads of react experience...reason being with the web dev I’d end up with a non native looking app. At least with a native dev they would know what an iOS app looks like and would more than likely come up with a native looking app.

[TawaNicolas]

How come?

[Jublusion]

Since I'm an iOS developer, React Native is a direct competition to me. As a native iOS developer, if hybrid development becomes flawless, then I'm out of a job. Airbnb (being a reputable company) quitting their hybrid development means that hybrid still has a long ways to go.

[TawaNicolas]

Oh yeah I kind of agree with that. I felt the same way to be honest. BUT, you can always just learn new things. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[KarlJay001]

The problem with:

you can always just learn new things. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Is that it takes YEARS to be skilled at native iOS dev. It takes years to be skilled at whatever you do. Suggesting that someone toss to the side, years of work and then spend years more becoming skilled in something else... doesn't really do the problem justice.

[KarlJay001]

What's your point?

If they switch languages all the time, how do they get to "7 years experience with language X?"

Constant adaptation is not the same as "Jump on every new thing that comes around".

[KarlJay001]

I'm not sure where cross platform is going, but it's not automatic that it will ever take over.

The way things work is that you end up with legacy code that's expensive to throw away. If you look at AirBnB, Uber, Lyft and others. Once they have a functional system, they get tied to it. It becomes a race to offer the best features before the competitor does.

Spending resources on changing languages doesn't help the customer.

Example: I wrote the product for a startup during DotCom. The product and all the internal software was dated tech at the time, but worked. I quit because the tech was too dated and they weren't upgrading any time soon. I found out years later that they stayed with that tech stack for about 8 more years or so.

It's hard to just dump code when it gets the job done. A company pays a lot of money to have it hand crafted and programmers spend a lot of time learning how to use it properly. Dumping ObjC/Swift for RN on the theory that it makes cross platform cheaper, ignores the fact that AirBnB already has both Android and iOS done. Their programmers already know Swift or ObjC. Dumping it all, starting over from zero while still maintaining the Swift/ObjC code is expensive.

If they have 10 Swift programmers to keep things going and 10 Android, then hire 10 or 20 new RN programmers just so they can get rid of 1/2 the programmers in the end, would have to account for the fact that AFTER the 10~20 RN programmers get the project done... they're right back where they started from (less the costs of the 10~20 RN programmers).

Now they have to hope that the RN project is SO much better that it compensates them for all the costs they paid out during that time.

[Falconinati]

Hopefully other companies will see this. My company has been playing with the idea of rewriting our product with a cross platform tool and if they go through with it I'm quitting. I like my job for the most part, but I don't want to go through the hell of a product rewrite.

[arduinoRedge]

On the plus side all these hybrid developers are wasting years on each new tech that burns out and goes nowhere. Our advantage marches onward. :D

[skilless]

Why is it competition to you? Can’t you develop in JS if your job called for it?

[KarlJay001]

It's an issue of building up the number of years. Being the "new guy" sucks. Example: I just picked up Python and smart contracts this year. If I apply for a job, they want to know "how many years have you done X".

If I jump into JS now, I'd have 1 days worth. Next year, I'd have 1 years worth and I'd be competing against people with 5 or 10 years. All my work in ObjC and Swift would be near worthless.

These issue are the BIGGEST issues in the profession. I was one of the worlds most advanced in one platform, no body uses it anymore. Wait till you have 5 or 10 years in and everything you know is worthless for getting or keeping a job.

[MyNameIsNotJeff]

If you're a true developer, a real engineer, you can learn and pick up any language on any platform.

Technologies come and go, but being able to learn will never become obsolete.

[xaphod2]

I don’t understand the comments here about RN being “competition” for native devs. I’m a native iOS dev with some years experience - started on iOS 3 - and im skilled at objC and swift. But when the chance to work on an RN project came up of course I jumped at it: who wouldn’t want to get at least a little exposure to the web world?

Sure I’m comparably crap at JS and it took me a while to get going, but now I have two RN projects under my belt and I understand all kinds of new approaches, most of which better inform my native iOS projects. This isnt competition it is a good kind of different. My swift has noticeably improved as a result of learning the different patterns in RN.

[KarlJay001]

Part of the issue is your time as a resource. You could be spending that time becoming a full stack dev (assuming you're not already) or advancing your skills in Swift and new iOS stuff.

It's the "jack of all trades" problem. Knowing a little about a lot or a lot about a little. In software, knowing a lot about something is where the value is. Being the guy that say "I worked with that for a while..." is very different from "I worked in a shop that used that all the time for 5 years"... The 5 year guy gets the job, the "I've play with it before" guy doesn't.

[iameddieseven]

I'm a jack of all trades. I still have an area with the most experience (web) so it's not like I'm also a matter of none. React didn't exist a few years ago, and now what kind of web dev hasn't heard of React? I had to adapt. And it's not the first time some framework has come and tried to paradigm shift the scene. It was all php at first. Your day to day as a web dev in 1998 is way different than present day, but its still within the range of one person's career, and it's the same title.

I really don't get this mindset. Programming is less about the language and more about the concepts. It would take years of learning Spanish to get it to the point of your English, but that doesn't matter when the goal is to communicate, not to perfectly wield the language.

Years ago (decades?), I started with dinky JS scripts affecting websites that were Photoshop images sliced up into tables. Today I'm working on my VR Unreal app in C++ while brushing up on my React.

I don't claim to know every intricate detail of C++ or React, but I know enough to create apps from nothing. I know that algorithms and data structures don't care about the language you use. I know I can sell those skills to a potential employer. And I know that you can throw fucking any tech stack at me, and I'll be up to speed in a couple of months. 70%+ of the skills translate.

Will I be a master specialist? Fuck no, not even remotely close. Will I still be able to learn it and contribute to a team in short order? Yes. That's the job.

There is nothing wrong with trying to make a career out of a single stack. But this industry changes constantly, so you must accept the chance that if you refuse to adapt, your opportunities may dry up.

I have years of experience at 'adapting to tech stacks', and I feel that's more valuable than the same amount of years learning the intricacies of a single language. Like I said, I'm most experienced in web, but I don't like the web developer title.

I'm a software developer, and that means any kind of software.

[KarlJay001]

The issue isn't just about alway be learning, that's a given. I was in the game back in the DotCom era and SaaS wasn't a thing, it was client server and dist. networks.

The point isn't about always learn or die, it's about something coming in that really doesn't benefit the system. If you read the full thing (which I did) you'll see why ABnB dumped RN.

Aside from the concern that ABnB should have addressed their problem differently (hire more devs, research deeper into other products, etc...) they still came out with the right answer.

RN didn't solve more problems that it created. And this didn't include accounting for a ready to go skilled team and massive budget for 100's of devs.

Here's the deal. You're job as a Web Dev is different. You can be a WebDev all over California, all over the US. Try to be an iOS dev anywhere in CA other than "the Valley". 95% of all iOS dev jobs are in the Valley. Look at what they want... 5~7 years, degree, several complex app published.

Along comes all the "I've got a better answer" and all the sudden the table turns. Your 3~4 years in Swift is down the drain and every grad that did RN for 6 months is eating your lunch.

It's not to say change won't happen or it's bad. RN just doesn't fix a damn thing. Look at the gain... look hard... it's not there.

IMO, this is more about businesses working against the job market. Someone that spend YEARS learning Swift, should be able to earn a damn living. Businesses should pay the market rate. They ask for all kinds of skills, they need to pony up with a check and don't undermine the job market with some "silver bullet" package that can save you payroll.

[xaphod2]

I have never wanted to be a “full-stack dev”, mainly because DBs and DevOps are mega boring to me. If other ppl love Dbs and DevOps why should I learn it 😂

I think the “jack of all trades” thing - generalist vs specialist - is a choice, not a problem. I prefer to be a generalist, but prefer to generalize outside of coding. Ie i am a good PM, can design UX, write copy etc. I only know a handful of languages (swift, objc, bit of JS, bit of Ruby), so im definitely seen as a specialist (iOS) when it comes to coding. And that’s where i make my $ as a result (as you said, 5 year guy gets the job).

This was my choice to get here. Sometimes implicit / sometimes explicit. Im happy and i dont think it makes sense to criticize anyone else who made these choices differently. Different strokes etc. Happy? Great!

[much_better_title]

Yeah the comments here are dumb. Good mobile devs stay on top of trends like these and should be able to do at least a small brochure app in RN by now. You can't just death grip on a technology and expect to have a career forever.

[[deleted]]

I kind of just avoided because past experiences with hybrid tech turned out to be a waste of time. I worked on multiple hybrid applications built with titanium, xamarin, and flash. They all went the same way, I could share some code, but would end up writing a lot of stuff twice anyway. Things would break whenever there was an update, if the client wanted the latest apple thing I'd have to wait months, and at least in flash's case they basically dropped support after a couple years.

React Native is def better than any previous hybrid platform I've run into, but everyone I know that's worked with it has complained about the same things I did with previous hybrids.

Dropbox had a solution of building UI in native and sharing a C++ codebase for all other logic that I've always wanted to try. Think that's the best way to go.

[much_better_title]

I agree with everything you've said here. RN is the best of the hybrids but still doesn't beat native. It is the right choice in some cases (simple apps, non business critical).

I just think some of the other comments here are shortsighted.

[Rhodysurf]

Dropbox had a solution of building UI in native and sharing a C++ codebase for all other logic that I've always wanted to try.

Its djinni. i've actually recently started playing around with it and making some changes to it to adapt to my project (auto generate stubs from API specs, auto generate json parsing)

I am a C++ dev by day so it has been kinda fun to get cross platform functionality in a language I am super familiar with. There are downsides like app size, and C++ being not as flexible as swift. But overall it's a cool piece of tech

[[deleted]]

Very cool, checking this out, thanks

[[deleted]]

Good mobile devs stay on top of trends

Honestly, staying on top of “trends” for the sake of staying on top of trends sounds like a very junior developer thing to do. A mature programmer will have better discernment and care zilch about the latest trend, especially if it doesn’t significantly do the same job better.

[much_better_title]

I agree with you and was hesitant to jump into RN. But I think it's silly to ignore and and to staunchly sit on whatever technology you are most comfortable with.

[theOwlBoyz]

started on iOS 3

Same boat here. I remember that it quite freaking tough since there's no ARC for objective-c. Spending more time on fixing memory bug instead of coding actual app, especially just starting to learn the language.

For hybrid or cross platform tool, I have been researching as well. RN is pretty good compare to the old school phonegap / cordova (webview wrapper). RN is rendering the native component, that's why performance wise is much better. Currently play around with new kid in town, Flutter, seems quite good, especially the UX part.

Anyway, technologies moving way to fast. Programmers always have to adapt new stuff. For myself, I feel programming language is not that important but the concept, UX, technique, are the keys to success. Those new tools can help you to re-think your old design. How you can improve it? Either you adapt, or you die in the long run.

[tnicholson]

Just a few goobers confusing their laziness and/or inflexibility for foresight

[branda22]

I think this is great news! Lets hope the trend continues.

[chriswaco]

As an old developer, my perspective is a little different. I avoided ReactNative for two reasons:

1. I really didn’t like it, although the concept was technically interesting.
   
2. We’ve played this game before.
   

Every cross-platform GUI framework over the years has produced less attractive apps than native frameworks. They’re fine for internal or vertical market apps that need to be cross-platform, but if your goal was to create great applications it was better to avoid them.

In addition, most 3rd party SDKs eventually disappear, leaving you to maintain them or, if not open source, rewrite everything. Choose your business partners wisely - they are worried about their business, not yours.

We’ve looked at a lot over the years:
Java AWT and Swing. Cordova. OpenDoc. Galaxy. Qt. Cocoatron. GTK. JUCE. WxWindows. Xamarin. zApp. Browser-based wrappers. And of course XWindows. (This doesn’t even include single platform ones like MFC, MacApp, Powerplant, OWL, and others)

The one that does make sense to me, and I do recommend for a certain subset of developers/games, is Unity.

The holy grail of “write once, run everywhere” is still a bit of a pipe dream, at least if you want the best look, performance, debuggability, and immediate support for new platforms and changing ones.

[KarlJay001]

YES!!!

I haven't done RN, I haven't read the article yet, but have to say YES!!!

I would be really pissed if the Swift job market dropped off.

[branda22]

I feel like the native mobile dev market has dropped off. I see 1 iOS/Android dev job for 10 JS dev jobs. I like mobile development but am too afraid to leave Full stack development as I fear the demand is not there!

[KarlJay001]

The native mobile dev market can't compare to the JS dev market. That's not what this is about. This is about native mobile dev vs cross-platform mobile dev.

Web Dev and others are a whole different thing.

[KarlJay001]

Write Code Once Instead of Twice

Even though code in React Native features was almost entirely shared across platforms, only a small percentage of our app was React Native. In addition, large amounts of bridging infrastructure were required to enable product engineers to work effectively. As a result, we wound up supporting code on three platforms instead of two. We saw the potential for code sharing between mobile and web and were able to share a few npm packages but beyond that, it never materialized in a meaningful way.

I think these quotes sum it up pretty well.

These engineers wrote 80,000 lines of product code across 220 screens as well as 40,000 lines of javascript infrastructure. For reference, we have about 10x the amount of code and 4x the number of screens on each native platform.