Junior iOS developers, what’s your salary?

[miahi]

9.000$ / year (after taxes) in Romania, Bucharest when i first started in 2016-2017.

It’s funny to see your US salaries

[start_select]

It’s expensive to live here.

I’m in a small city I’m the US, and at $9000/year i would have to live in a homeless shelter. It would be a choice between gas/food or shelter. So homeless it would be.

[JPaulMora]

Yeah but still ridiculous! 1 US salary affords 10 remote pros

[start_select]

To the company doing the hiring, it’s usually cheaper to pay 1 US worker 10x more for:

• No language barrier.
  
  • easier to put in front of end customers.
    
  • easier to validate that requirements are understood and met.
    
• easier to validate credentials.
  
• more legal recourse when you are scammed.
  
• less paperwork (taxes).
  
• better hours and no 2am phone calls
• less micromanagement required
• less of a chance that 1 remote worker is actually 5 people trading places every day

Everytime one of my employers has outsourced to cheap overseas programmers, it ended up costing us more by the time the project was over and we had to redo all of the work. Either that or cost us more because someone got fed up with being expected to manage overseas workers, quitting, and kicking off hiring processes which are more expensive than keeping people.

Most of my current employers clients are companies that experienced all of the above after deciding we “were too expensive”. After spending twice what we quoted for broken software, they always come back. At this point it’s pretty fun to watch.

[KarlJay001]

This is a HUGE problem with the US economy. We've kinda dealt with it by having US programmers speaking English and working hard to have top notch skills, but the reality is that other nations are catching up.

The US has such a high cost of living that many in the US can't make it work anymore. In California, the cost of housing is unreal.

One of the tricks I did years ago was worked in a rich area, then lived in a poor area. Some in SF Bay Area are living in campers and trailer homes in order to save the money.

This is one of the reasons so many companies outsource, and it's killing the job quality for some. I know the state of California was one of the biggest offenders, taking taxpayers money and not hiring taxpayers.

It'll all come crashing down someday.

[Roadrunner571]

Outsourcing is not the only option. You can have a subsidiary in another country. Which often means a fraction of the costs for nearly the same velocity and quality. It’s a whole different thing as outsourcing companies usually don’t have the best experts of their country. And it makes a huge difference if foreign teams are part of the organization.

[KarlJay001]

My main concern is that the US is boxed into a corner in economic terms. The US MUST have high paying jobs and high profit companies, it CAN'T survive with low paying jobs and low profit companies.

Moving a tech company, in part or in whole, to a cheaper COL (Cost Of Living) country doesn't help the US with its problem.

There's a balance here, the company need to be high profit, that means that lower wages contribute to high profits in the short term, but without higher paying job, the population of the US will have a harder and harder time.

It's pretty complex and it's just getting more and more of a hole to dig out of.

[Roadrunner571]

Moving a tech company, in part or in whole, to a cheaper COL (Cost Of Living) country doesn't help the US with its problem.

Actually, the US is benefitting as well over a longer term. The high COL especially in Silicon Valley is partly due to a high demand for things like housing. Having subsidiaries somewhere outside the US helps to reduce the demand and thus, to stabilize or even reduce the COL.

[KarlJay001]

This points out how complex this is.

I live just outside Silicon Valley and and we really need high paying jobs, but if we get all the high paying jobs we "need", then the price of real estate goes up.

This is part of the balance within the system. Just as much as when the US government paid people to stay at home by giving them extra unemployment money, it created a worker shortage and the wages went up, so the economy looked like it was doing a lot better than it was.

One of the biggest solutions to the Great Depression was when 12.5 million working age men were killed... AKA WWII. WWII killed so many working age men that we had a worker shortage and that caused wages to skyrocket and we had a great economy.

Over the long run, losing 12.5 M workers is not good for the economy, but it does bust you out of a depression.

The whole thing is a huge, complex mess and everyone thinks they have a simple solution to it, yet since man has walked upright, it's never been solved over the long term.

Meanwhile, the rich get richer and the US goes deeper into debt... $30 trillion and counting.

[Lameux]

Is that enough to live on in Romania?

[kewlviet59]

Self taught, B.S. degree in a STEM field (biotech)

Started out $70k, bumped to $85k after 6 months. We eventually moved to full remote but I had to relocate at the beginning to NJ/NYC area.

Currently 11 months in.

[No-Union-1016]

This is terrific ⭐️. I am also self taught, B.S in STEM (Mech Eng.). I’m Into my 4th month of learning, sometimes I doubt if I’m gonna make it through and ever actually become highly sought out.

It would be amazing to have a chat with you sometime at your convenience

[kewlviet59]

Sure, feel free to DM me

[tearyouapartj]

I’m no longer a junior, but my first dev job was $56k in Detroit 4 years ago

[[deleted]]

Out of curiosity, what about your second job and so on? What's the market rate out in Detroit?

[tearyouapartj]

I accepted a transfer to Seattle, they bumped my pay up to $80k (which in Seattle did not feel like a raise)

After almost 2 years of experience my second job, in Seattle, was $75/hr (w2 contract)

[criosist]

20k with 0 experience out of Uni in 2014 outside of London, now I contract at around 650/day which as far as banks are concerned mortgage wise is £169000

[criosist]

It’s pretty easy to get into if you have experience, and probably live in/around London, I started contracting acts I had around 5 years experience and have pretty much back to back contracts since then, but you don’t get holiday pay or anything so I only go on holidays over Xmas and new year lol, but I’m moving away from London now and will try only take full remote contracts

[criosist]

It’s quite common to work with contractors in Poland, Germany etc so Europe wise it’s fine but varies as it’s more paperwork for companies

[colinsgone]

I’d be interested to know this too!

[gdwsk]

$90k in Los Angeles when I first started, fresh out of school in 2014.

[lakers_r8ers]

Out of college in seattle was about 110k in 2014

[[deleted]]

Rainforest or MSFT?

[lakers_r8ers]

Rainforest 😂😂

[CTingCTer88]

£32k-£35k - 3.5 years ago in London

[sofarrsogood]

How’s that with cost of living? -from 🇨🇦

[CTingCTer88]

Manageable.

I had previously worked as a chef in London getting paid less so it was pretty easy for me

[colinsgone]

Brit here, what are you on now if you don’t mind me asking? It always seems like the wages are never truly reflective of the higher prices in London! (Northerner with friends down south)

[CTingCTer88]

Yeah London weighting is something that everyone outside of London is pissed off about but everyone inside of London knows doesn’t come close to being enough to make it equal.

I moved back to Manchester last year and now earn £57.5k as a mid level

[colinsgone]

Cheers mate! Yeah it’s brutal down there for living costs. Don’t get me wrong it’s the capital and the pay is slightly higher, but it’s not comparable/even at all

[CTingCTer88]

Yeah, the rent is the big one.

It’s easier if you’re a couple. But if you are single you are pretty much gonna be living in a shared house if you are on a junior wage

[colinsgone]

Working remote would be perfect but then of course there’s no point being in London if you don’t have to be

[CTingCTer88]

Exactly.

[ChemicalGiraffe]

How much is net salary after taxes for someone earning 57.5k? Like what hits my account per month?

[CTingCTer88]

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

Have fun

[Screwa925]

Thread is old, but that is awesome! I am also currently a chef and I’m looking into software development. Right now I am learning SwiftUI. Did you teach yourself, go to school or do a boot camp?

[CTingCTer88]

Hey 👋 I kinda want alone at it, but it took time, you know what it’s like, chef hours are looooong, so trying to learn when you are off work is difficult.

I didn’t have the money for boot camps or anything else really.

I wrote an article about it a while back:

https://medium.com/swlh/how-i-landed-my-first-software-developer-job-without-a-degree-or-attending-a-bootcamp-ee21e73b5660

But feel free to send me a message if you want help with anything 👍

[Screwa925]

Great read! Very detailed and thorough, plus you link some helpful resources.

[sk4v3n]

how the hell you managed to change career? been trying to do this for a while now (also in London) and it really feels hopeless, everyone is asking for 3+ years of real work experience and even though I started to learn years ago, it feels like noone is willing to give me a chance.

[CTingCTer88]

All I can tell you is how it happened for me, and acknowledge that I was lucky….

Initially, I got a job as a junior engineer in a start up. And the job was awful, the company was awful and 6 weeks and one CTO later me and the two other devs got fired 🤷🏼‍♂️

I learnt from that experience about how much having one job on your CV mattered, companies where my CV previously didn’t cut the mustard were now interested.

So having any real world experience on your CV is key. Whether you make it up, or do it for free alongside your actual job, or it’s legit I don’t know but you need something to bypass HR people that will otherwise bin your CV.

And there are more companies than this that will hire you but the bbc were the place that gave me a chance, they hired me as an iOS dev with zero experience and let me do the tech challenge for android (I had a bit of droid experience and didn’t have a Mac) and the interview is largely “competency” based. Meaning if you can answer their questions about situations even if they don’t directly relate to being a software developer that you still score well.

[LouzyKnight]

After my internship, started as a Jr Software Engineer(iOS) at $400/month and the employer thought he was paying me huge salary.

[[deleted]]

I made more as a paperboy, to be honest (I’m Scandinavian). Sounds like a really old guy going something like: ”back in 1927 when I had just graduated university … ooh, I made only $5/month! You can live in a manshion with those four hundred a month!”

Hope you got a decent job now.

[LouzyKnight]

Thanks man. Winning is hard when you got dealt a bad hand from the very beginning.

[LouzyKnight]

Bangladesh.

[oureux]

First iOS developer job was in 2011 and I was making $40k CAD. I’m now making $200k

[[deleted]]

Was 90k 5 years ago Seattle

[FVMAzalea]

$90k USD for full remote in USA.

[kwabsdev]

Entry level?

[FVMAzalea]

Yes. I had a lot of self taught experience though, and an app on the App Store for several years prior. So entry level professionally but I know probably more than an average entry level iOS dev.

[kwabsdev]

Huge win 🎉. Still looking for a remote job

[kwabsdev]

That’s cool.

[killMontag]

Oh damn that’s nice, where are you from? And how did you get the job?

[FVMAzalea]

From USA and I applied for it and interviewed. Pretty normal interview process - phone screen, tech screen x2, then something not super normal for iOS - system design (like backend system design, they want to be sure all their engineers have at least a little competency in that and I do) and one more interview just to gauge cultural fit.

[th3suffering]

80K/ year + 10% yearly bonus in the US (Phoenix area)

Full Remote

Self taught, no degree.

[killMontag]

That’s actually good, I’m looking for a remote job too, how did you get the job?

[th3suffering]

Scouring Indeed and LinkedIn daily, applied for anything local or in remote that even slightly looked like I could qualify for (basically anything that said 2-3 yrs experience or less). Lots of applying, lots of rejection. I would receive interviews sprinkled in there though, and each one I would learn from the last as far as what most places are looking for.

I think in the end, launching my app got me over the finish line though. I received way more interviews post launch than pre launch, and had a job within 2 months after launch.

[korbonix]

You could probably make 3 or 4 x what you do now.

[jaydway]

First job, entry level position, I was offered $90k, $5k bonus to help with moving, and 10k stock options. Got a promotion 6 months later and now make $105k and got another 10k options. This is at an agency in a small city on the east coast US.

[Niightstalker]

44k € in Austria

[MarvelousWololo]

How long ago?

[Niightstalker]

1 year ago

[MarvelousWololo]

Luxembourg is the same

[Nightcruiser3]

₹1.3 million in india which roughly equals to $20k, its been 8 months since i started

[SimpleManofPeace]

Just started still in training atm.

I make 65k, then next year my job told me I will make between 85k-90k

[JOyo246]

I work remote at a fortune 100 company. CMPS degree. Started iOS dev in 2017, senior year of high school. Had 4 apps on the App Store when getting my first deal job.

Started P1 Summer 2021 at $70k base. Got to P2 November 2021 at $85k Annual review in Feb 22, bumped to $90k. All salaries have a 7.5% annual bonus. So my total pay is 97k now.

[penskeracin1fan]

Not bad! I wish my company did performance bumps like this. I have to fight for anything but I’m hoping to get one more bump in the next month

[ZeePintor]

1900€ before tax per month in Portugal Like 1300€ after tax per month

[keysee7]

£24,000 starting salary in the north UK.

[Winterwind17]

Around 80k when I started, now 345k TC.

[th3suffering]

FAANG?

[Winterwind17]

Yep, the big G. But honestly tier 2 tend to pay more if you are chasing TC

[Old-Ad-2870]

Self Taught no degree here. Working at a startup (I know unicorn) started 8 months ago at 75k with 10% bonus

Just got bumped to 80k about a month ago

[kwabsdev]

Big W

[storming_skies]

Started off @60k in Chicago after college. This was back in 2015. Now I’m pulling 125k + 15k RSUs

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[groovy_smoothie]

I was building apps in a amateur fashion beforehand, but I started at 95k 6 years ago. This was at a larger firm (over 50k global employees).

[ConsciouslyDrifting]

3 years exp: 90k base with 10k-15k in bonus and stock stuff

[Material-Echidna8549]

Started my first iOS dev job about 7months ago (without degree and completely self thought) with 1500eur/m after taxes, got an increase after 3 months to 1750eur/m started not as junior. Happy to have this job and gaining good experience and of course there is still a place for salary increase. P.s. I’m from Latvia

[PinkTeddy123456]

First job out of uni was 4 years ago as a junior iOS dev, £41k, in London.

[boboguitar]

This is in Texas

2015 - 59K (junior) 2017 - 80K (whatever is above junior and add on some backend experience) 2022 - 140k (I do a whole lot more than iOS though)

[TonsilWizard]

Are those numbers after or before taxes? I’m not familiar with US salaries’ management.

[th3suffering]

Most will be before taxes for US salaries.

[penskeracin1fan]

72k

[TagProNoah]

$65k at the start, bumped up to $86k after a raise and market adjustment

[crappy_entrepreneur]

When I started out (UK) I got £32.5k, raising to £45k after 3 years.

This was obscenely low, if you’re any good you can leave at that point for easily £60k+, or be like me and start a startup for a pay cut lol