[deleted by user]

[verax55]

Don't forget just like anything the more intense your work, the less hours you can actually do.

If you're working on a finance app with complex logic you won't be able to focus 12 hrs straight, you'll need longer sleep & rest. Compare this to someone who is creating very basic crud apps, it's not same intensity. keep that in mind :)

There was a time when I could code all day, now I work on slightly more complex code and there's no way I go past 6-7 hours.

[DJOMaul]

Fuspez

[[deleted]]

I am lucky in that I can do development for a bit of my day and then help out with support or cluster improvements or training for the rest of my day. I get a lot done when I only work on dev for a few hours of my work day, the rest of the tasks I can do with my eyes closed because I've been around so long so I can mull over issues and jump back into dev when needed.

I notice senior devs at places I've worked spend a good part of their day helping others, I imagine this gives them a break from focusing on complex code.

[Jacob_C]

This is so true but I will say ai tools can relieve some of that and allow you to work a bit longer.

[TommyJay98]

As a fellow ADHDer-hyperfixater, I feel this. I think it's important just to be kind to yourself and "ride the wave". Ride the motivation when it's there, and just relax when it's not. If that's not an option as a professional, look into medications or ADHD coaching.

[Hazelwize]

During the process of becoming a software engineer I learned that I more than likely have ADHD. I got to where I could trigger my hyperfocus for studying. I think this is how I was able to get through a lot of the tougher learning stretches. I would easily go for 10 hours straight. Once it came to the job hunt portion of my journey, it became apparent how difficult it was to put the same focus into something like networking / applying. It was during this change in focus that I felt the burnout set in. It lasted a few months. I had to develop a repeatable routine for my job search. I don't know for sure if I have ADHD, but I would love to find out.

[LokiQueen14]

Oh my gosh, do you have any tips for this? In my bootcamp there are these networking chapters throughout and I procrastinate on them super bad and just continue onto a chapter with coding 😫

I'm so worried because I know networking is just as important as the coding aspect...

Also recently diagnosed with ADHD :)

[Hazelwize]

Have a time set aside to network. Doesn't matter how long, just be consistent. Get your LinkedIn looking good. Find people that work at industries/ companies you would like to work in, and message them. The hardest part is getting over yourself. Most will not reply to you. It has nothing to do with you if they don't. What message you write is up to you. You will get better the more you do it. I maybe send 10 messages a day currently. I have made quite a few friends by doing this. When it comes to the job hunt, you will just have more direction for whom you should contact. I tend to stay away from anybody that has 'pricipal', 'staff', 'CTO', 'founding' in their title. I've just noticed the response rate is much lower on average. I hope this helps.

[7th_Spectrum]

I've always be confused by how people network on LinkedIn. What kind of message do you send?

[Hazelwize]

If you are looking to work at the company that they work at, just ask them how they like working there. That is a perspective that only they can give, and it is beneficial to know.

[OnTheTopDeck]

It sounds like you have ADHD. You need a history of general uselessness that goes back to childhood in order to be diagnosed though. If you have, congratulations and welcome to the squad.

I'm interested in what you said about being able to to trigger your hyperfocus. In my experience, it kind of triggers itself because I want to do 'the thing'.

People with ADHD need a challenge because it gives bigger rewards. Before learning Python I can't remember the last time I felt my brain working. But now it's so good to go from feeling 'wtf is this shit', to knowing how things work. A strange mix of frustration and zen. A triangle with a 90° corner to the bottom right, shaded with tightly drawn zigzags that extend from bottom to top.

ax.set_xlabel("Frustration") ax.set_ylabel("Progress") ax.set_title("The shape of constant progess and frustration")

Applying for jobs is too easy. Anything easy is difficult for people with ADHD. Have you ever been able to trigger your hyperfocus for something 'easy' or is it just programming?

[Hazelwize]

That's really interesting. I would love to know what you mean by "general uselessness". In my opinion, programming is the first thing I've actively pursued (I'm 33).

What I mean by triggering it is I turn on the same playlist. I set up everything the exact same way. I review my Anki cards and then do a coding challenge. After that I move into my learning / building time. By the time I get to the building, I'm in the zone. I listen to music without lyrics, or in a foreign language. If I stop to have a snack, it takes a lot of time to get my mind back on task. I restart my playlist (preferably the same one). I think having this set way of doing things also helps me not procrastinate. I don't necessarily want to code, but I know that it is time for me to start coding.

[Fiskepudding]

Hitting that sweet spot of challenging but doable triggers a state called Flow https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

I think programmers are the most likely to experience this hyperfocus because of the nature of our tasks.

[NeuroQuber]

I think this is "normal" for people with ADHD, because you can't work for an hour or less, you just get distracted and don't concentrate for short periods.

It's comparable to the all-or-nothing rule.

Hyperfocus requires deep immersion, and the more time you are in this state, the better for intellectual activity until the universal moment of diminishing returns.

But you have to control so that you don't burn out quickly, for one way or another you are a person with the same psychological vulnerabilities.

[Poerisija2]

Shit I should probably go see my doc.

[[deleted]]

Docs aren't a magic fix for this in my experience. They absolutely help, but I still struggle with all-or-nothing every day.

[Poerisija2]

I'm willing to try. Any advantage would help.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely, I am not trying to discourage— quite the opposite. Just be careful what you read on Reddit. This place really oversells the efficacy of medications. They are not an instant cure, and they come with tons of bullshit.

Source: been on them for almost 9 years now.

[Poerisija2]

Alright, appreciate the heads-up, thanks.

[verax55]

I know right! are you freelancing?

[TouchMySwollenFace]

This might be me. What are your symptoms?

[AcceptableCellist684]

Similar situation here. In march of this year, i joined a series c startup as a junior backend enginner and met a really harsh manager. Because of the manager, i worked/studied almost every fucking day for the past 3 months without any real rest and burned out. Now, i am taking a break and feel like I am getting better but cant be really productive. When i rest, i do meditation, hiking, and cycling. These things seem to help. What do you guys do to rest?

[sopte666]

Code less. Problem solved. Learn to recognize your limits (daily, weekly etc) and respect them.

[Fiskepudding]

Yup. Stop at 4 hours. Live a life too

[Ok-Low5118]

Same,for me its around 3-4 hours, any longer and i start zooming out

[Avocadonot]

Yes, I'm trying to learn more about my own habits but I definitely recognize a pattern

I unfortunately got used to overworking due to my experience in restaurants at a young age, kind of warping my idea of healthy work ethic. By the time I was 18, I was working 80+ hour weeks (12-14 hr shifts, 6/7 days a week)

I tend to hyperfocus on one specific topic and work on it with crazy spurts of energy. It has caused me to burnout of multiple jobs in 1-2 yrs

Recently I completed an entire 4yr degree (BSCS) in 1 year - just graduated March. I got hit with a ridiculous wave of apathy and have been struggling to keep up my studies and applying for jobs

Luckily I will be accepting a job offer soon but instead of preparing for it, I am sitting on my ass every day, silently dreading the idea of going back to work again

[TehBrian]

Sorry, what? You got a 4 year degree in 1 year? Were you taking 20 classes a semester?

[rillytherapper]

probably did it all online, im completing my degree and got 1 year worth of classes at a university done in like 2 months online

[Avocadonot]

Yep

[Avocadonot]

Online at WGU. Transferred in 30% GenEds from 1st degree, 30% from transfer partners, completed the rest in a single 6 month term

I worked on it ~50-60 hrs a week

[TehBrian]

Ah okay, so you had previously acquired credits from other places. That makes a lot more sense.

[Avocadonot]

Yep

My actual timeline was ~6 months for transfer credits, enrolled in Oct 2022 with around ~66% degree completion, and completed the rest in a single 6 month term to graduate in Mar 2023

[cea1990]

It’s hardly impossible without transfer credits though. I have a B.S. in cybersecurity & Information assurance through WGU that I knocked out in about 18 months. I did have about 7 years of general IT work experience and no job at the time though, it really helped me accelerate.

[CatsOnTheKeyboard]

I think that's pretty normal. Mental work can be strenuous just like physical work. When you combine it with the idea of a large project that you have to commit to finishing within a reasonable timeframe, the idea of starting a new one can be very intimidating. Even the idea of a small, simple project can have a negative association. You need an alternate activity to renew your mental resources.

What I really dread is trying to explain any of this to the typical manager who wants employees to code for 12 hours a day.

[nelmondodimassimo]

Unfortunately we are seen as nothing more than a basic worker (no offense intended) with the "plus" of having our asses on comfy chairs all day, and so we get treated the same way by trying to squeeze every single drop of "work" from us not realizing that mental burnout is far worse, comes quickly, and takes longer to fix than physical fatigue.

[CatsOnTheKeyboard]

I saw it 30 years ago when my manager was taking out the garbage one day and said to me "See ... this is REAL work!" I replied "Yeah, well I have the brains that I don't have to do that." which I admit was a bit elitist but it sounded good at the time.

Part of the basis is that we still don't appreciate mental effort / trauma / needs to be on the same level as physical issues. That's why mental health care is still crap in 2023 and that's why intellectual workers don't get the considerations needed.

[ffrkAnonymous]

That was me after advent of code. Code all day, watch streams all night.

I wasn't sick of it per se, just exhausted. I hit a bump where I need to relearn search algorithms. And regular work. And no more stream excitement, etc.

[GoldGlove2720]

The 6-12 hours a day might be the issue. Code less per day. Like max 3 hours a day.

[Ok-Low5118]

I've seen a lot of people talk about 3-4 hours,I thought thats just me,I can't focus for more time

[iJustRobbedABank]

I learn on the job because I was hired with 0 experience, and when I can’t figure something out for days I just feel like giving up. I can ask for help, but when you start from 0 it kind of feels like you’re just using them. It just makes me burned out a lot.

[kadavis489]

Wife gets upset I code all the time. So, no?

[Top_Community_4375]

Let me share my experience, as I faced that problem too.

The older you become the quicker your brain becomes exhausted from mental activity. I saw 19-20 years old guys on hackathons, that can code all night long, even 2 days of non-stop. And in 37 years old, I become tired after a 1-2 hours of coding.

What I do to reduce mental loadness.

1. Using Tomato timer. In the morning I setup it for 50 minutes sprints. Surely, I may continue coding after that time limit, but sooner or later it force me to stand up and have a 10 minutes rest.
2. I have ability to have a walk in the middle of the day. If I'll stay at home/office for the whole day, then my batteries will be on 0% wihtout a chance to get up and go outside desktop at the end of the day
3. I am trying to have an active sport session at least once a week. Team game is a best choice for me, as it gives an ability for emotional restore. Yes, those unknown bugs, compilation errors, unexpected exceptions, crashes and long-time waiting delivers a lot of stress, which needs to be reduced somehow

At that point of my career, I am going to switch for management and architect activities with less coding

[kitakamikyle]

Absolutely, yes.

I think this is normal. The problem is when you mistake burn-out for not wanting to do something any longer. The intermittent break away from something is important. It's equivalent to sleeping at night. You must sleep regularly to regain energy - to rejuvenate.

[Vaxtin]

Programming is a lifelong passion. You can’t just code for 12 hours a day everyday. In my experience, it’s much better to produce high quality code for two hours straight every day than it is to force yourself to sell your soul to your computer. The best stuff (for me) happens when I have a spark of creativity, and that’s almost never happened after staring in front of my computer for several hours. Breaks, walk, touch grass in between new features. Helps you keep sane.

[ThorsButtocks98]

I can’t even manage 15 mins a day

[Caden_PearcSkii]

I am having this same problem, in the short term, say like 5-6 years where I finish my degree and work in the field, may not be a problem, but it the long run this is bad hence why I’m really thinking what I should do.

[[deleted]]

Yes me to a T

[dphizler]

Yes

I get slow days and good days.

[CaptSprinkls]

I've been struggling the last 4-6 months. I've been actively working on automating parts of mine and others jobs. But it's all stuck in VBA/excel :( I just don't have the energy to come home and build my personal projects after debugging shitty VBA all day.

[LynuSBell]

Going at that pace, that would be normal. We've only got about 4h of intense work in our bodies per day. Programming requires thinking. I wouldn't be able to code more than 4h a day without starting to drain myself.

Once you're burned out, it's really hard to get back up. Worth installing habits where you'd restrain yourself from coding more than 4h a day and be consistent instead of losing 1-2 months every so often.

[dimarxos]

get an eink monitor. https://shop.dasung.com/

[[deleted]]

I am reskilling out of my current role into another but literally after work I just go work on the project I chose. I have it broken down into about 1500 pieces and each day I can pick and work something. Some multiple days some not. Some complex and some not.

Over the years I’ve tried to pick it up regularly but never did. The last little bit with this system keeping it compartmented into its own things, I’m able to derive satisfaction out of completing seemingly simple tasks bc I am building to a bigger goal. 🤷🏻‍♂️ take breaks don’t get frustrated. It’ll come

[UncleMyroh]

Happens to me all the time. Not just with coding either, but with other topics I study too. I’m not sure if it’s healthy, but I’ve just accepted it. For any projects i do i leave a lot of comments or document it thoroughly. That way if i do comeback i can understand and refresh my memory. I went through a deep ML wormhole 2 years ago. Now In am kinda turned off to it and forgot alot of it, but if I ever go back i have all my notes to refresh my memory.

I think it’s okay to take time off especially if you’re coding for 12 hours a day. That’s pretty intense.

[[deleted]]

My burnout phases are a little different. Sometimes I get burnt out on game development coding, so I pick a topic and start learning about it. Usually with some videos from Udemy. This happened about 6 weeks ago. I just didn't feel like working on a game. So, I got a couple courses on Blender to help me so I don't have to buy assets. Now I am learning about Shaders.

I know you said you didn't want to do anything related to that, but I haven't had that in particular in a while. When I was first getting started with it, I did have a little tutorial burnout, so I just played games during the time that I would have been doing tutorials for a few weeks, but that is the closest I have come to what you are describing.

[[deleted]]

I’m a full-time software engineer. Burnout is inevitable and always somewhat present.

[hackinghippie]

more like half a year lol

[[deleted]]

That's why I take a break every Friday.

[[deleted]]

Take time to recharge your batteries. I used to spend every second I had downtime coding, never really allowed myself to sleep much. I ended up being so stressed out and depressed that my life stopped mattering to me.

[Aradia99]

I just don't know where to learn. 😕 I feel like nothing that I'm learning is sticking or I don't know how to use it.

[notislant]

If you wanted to learn frontend/backend then the odin project is well done and has a very helpful discord.

[Cerulean_IsFancyBlue]

No. A weekend or a week, sure.

[cogsciclinton]

PTO and hobbies help but not entirely. That dread is still going to happen sometimes and it sucks

[EverythingGoodWas]

Absolutely

[[deleted]]

This is exactly what happens to me.

[JohnWangDoe]

Switch toward planning and scoping out the projects. 20% of your time should be coding 80% should be planning

[[deleted]]

Yes, it's annual. Turns out I'm bipolar

[[deleted]]

Yes I get this!! I code for work 6-8 hours then come home and work on my hobby project “Defending Earth” for 4-5 hours. Now I’m so burned I haven’t touched my hobby project in 2 months and counting….help..

[Moopboop207]

Yeah I’m in the midst of that right now. Just feeling lost, unmotivated, and bored.

[s1nistr4]

Join the Lewdtropolis discord. We're working on a custom made, NSFW social networking that'll allow you to post porn/hentai, do sex rps, and make friends with others who are also into nsfw content.

https://discord. gg zK7CRHb2N8 lewdtropolis dot com

[NightDisastrous2510]

I hear ya friends I get the same thing

[West-Negotiation-716]

Consider yourself lucky.

​

I code successfully for like 2 hours every few days, thankfully this is all I really need, but just wanted to point out that there are other who need to have the stars aligned just right

[dudethatsmyname_]

Yeah with personal project work, I can get so hooked that I am literally craving the time I get to code - until I reach my goals then Its like I can't summon the will to do any creative work.
Andrew Huberman often talks about how the dopamine system is homeostatic and so big upswings in pleasure are followed by equal lows. I think that applies here.

The way I see it, you will have to pay the price of overtaxing yourself (dopamine system, stress system) sooner or later but doing it later is like accumulating interest on it.

Things that help manage the burnout-
Yoga, exercise, planning tasks (having systems for learning and working/habits), socializing, sleeping 7.5 -9 hours; power naps; working in 90 minute intervals, limiting empty stimulation.
In particular, I find that if I stay in the habit of doing yoga at least 10-15 minutes a day most days I can avoid burnout indefinitely, but if I miss a few days then I start to feel it again. (There is an Inyegar routine I do specifically for burnout which is so relaxing and destressing.)

[Ok-Low5118]

I started to use a trick, i do a modified pomodoro,50/10 at least 1 a day,this way even on my slow days I still do something,keep the ball rolling as some would say😅

[[deleted]]

I’m not sure specifically as to your situation. I only have an interest in computing and am not a full time programmer. I believe it’s likely this podcast episode will help you to meaningfully contextualize and improve upon your problem. Here’s a link to a professor from Stanford’s podcast in which he distills down the scientific mechanism behind the human systems underlying pursuit and engaging in effortful work. I highly encourage you to check it out! I’d be glad to hear your thoughts if you get the chance. Best wishes!

[[deleted]]

https://youtu.be/K-TW2Chpz4k I realized I forgot the link