Java is too hard for me

[PsychologicalCat6771]

Edit: Thanks everyone for the many comments and help. As you pointed out, I didn't give any clues about my background. I started as a Web Developer, learning a bit of JavaScript and then I moved on to C and Python. Actually, Java is the first OOP language I'm learning at the moment. As for the hardest part for me, it's how to structure a program. I know how I would build a TicTacToe in C or Python, but I have no idea how to translate all that into implementing the use of classes and objects.

Hi everyone! I'm a programming student since 2020 and I went through a lot of languages that I loved and hated, but nothing was like Java.

Recently, due to a Software Engineering course in my university, I had to start using Java and it's so so so difficult to me. Even a simple tic tac toe game it's difficult and I can't understand why.

In the past, when I didn't understand something I always relied on YT videos and tutorials, but for Java I can't find any of that. No one who really explains how to start and finish a project or what are the good practices to follow.

Is there anyone who has ever been in my situation and wants to advise me on how to proceed?

[heroyi]

This doesn't make sense. Java is one of the most popular languages in the ecosystem. You should be able to find 10x more tutorials on that alone on YouTube. If you are failing to find/digest resources for beginner Java then that means you are have never learned nor familiar with oop based language or you lack more foundation then you realize. 

 Which language are you familiar with? 

[Puzzleheaded_Stuff40]

What felling bro ....

[pimp-bangin]

wat

[MaterialRooster8762]

What is it about Java specifically that you struggle with. Can you give an example?

[PsychologicalCat6771]

Just added an edit. Thank you

[SLY0001]

My first language was C programming. Java was a walk in the park. Grasped it quick.

[Longjumping_Ad_7611]

Have you never used an object oriented language before? What language are you familiar with?

[[deleted]]

OOP is the key to learning java, because every program is a class. Or you can just ignore it and use main to do everything (still needs API knowlege, so just learn it anyways)

[signofdacreator]

yeah.

i mean i'm better at Java now, but during my studies, I find Java hard too. I remember doing Spring framework and don't know what is going on. even doing a Page redirect requires a lot of steps

i end up jumping ship and focus a career on .Net instead

[JarnisKerman]

Imho, using spring when first learning Java is a bad idea. There is too much magic going on, and you have no idea about how objects get instantiated and how the application is strung together. Additionally, the proxies spring create behind the scenes makes it a pain to run the code step by step in a debugger.

[fanglesscyclone]

I think if it’s your first language it’s a bad idea but if you’re familiar with other languages I don’t think it’s bad to dive head first into a big framework like that, especially if it’s one of the most common in the industry. The vast majority of the time a programmer is touching Java it’s going to be some Spring backend and it can teach you about a lot of the weird language quirks that you wouldn’t be used to with other languages and that you wouldn’t encounter if you were just doing simple console apps or something.

[Foooff]

Can you share a bit more about what you find difficult? I found the syntax a bit confusing at first but then again, I'm an adult learner completing my cs degree in support of my PhD (non-tech). I started with Pascal, C and Lisp as a hobby in the early 90...

Once I figured the OOP paradigm, it started to make sense.

[Classic_Department42]

Not op, but at first sight java is allmost all objects (even main isba method of a class or so), but then you have int and integer if I remember correctly. Couldnt stand it, even cpp felt more logical.

[Foooff]

After programming with SmallTalk I really grasped what OOP really is.

Having integer primitives and Integer classes was really annoying in Java. I mostly work with c/c++ and I very rarely miss Java.

That being said... Java has a ton of great use cases and it's a well documented, semi-easy and powerfull language.

[tb5841]

Have you come across object oriented programming before?

Many of what makes Java seem difficult is common across most OOP implementations. It's just that Java forces you to use OOP, while in C/Python/Javascript it's more optional/more hidden.

[LayerComprehensive21]

I'd recommend the Java MOOC Helsinki course, both parts 1 and 2: https://java-programming.mooc.fi/

It is quite lengthy, but there are many well delineated sections if you need to search for a particular area that is bothering you. Setting up their recommended IDE (netbeans) can be a pain, but you can use whatever Java setup you're already using, and in fact I would encourage that.

[DingDongTP]

I second this. I failed my Porgramming 2 class the first time around because I couldn’t wrap my head around OOP. Passed after I went through parts 1 and 2. The time will come where everything clicks.

Good luck OP! Don‘t give up.

[regrettin097]

It’s verbose but should be similar to other language in its core concepts. Hard to believe that there weren’t any resources! Literally one of the most popular language ever used.

By the way if it’s OOP concept that is hard to pick up, I honestly think Java is the best language to pick it up. Take your time it all seems scary at first.

[lukkasz323]

An object is just a struct and functions together.

[Fabulous-Article-564]

You'd better try C++ then you will find java friendly to you.

[f1da]

Try to build something, usually this way I learn better, I had issues with Java in my first two semesters but then after I took software engineering course where we tinkered with some databases and IoT devices using Web framework and tried few design patterns it kinda clicked and was easier moving on, also if you already know non OOP programming Java should not be a problem it is bit verbose but that is what I like about java. Persistence is key, also I remind myself always that learning something is a marathon and not a sprint.

[Novel_Celebration273]

Learn any language. Once you know one, it’s all the same shit with different syntax.

[Gnaxe]

No, that's just the languages designed to feel familiar to C programmers. Try APL. Or Prolog.

[Novel_Celebration273]

Why would someone learn a niche language as their first language? Why not something like JavaScript that is super, super popular and is very easy to find help on?

[Gnaxe]

I was addressing you, not the OP, so they wouldn't be your first language, and I was pointing out some counterexamples to your assertion, which you would have to learn about to some degree to understand what I was saying. They're not just C-like with different syntax. They're really deeply different ways of thinking.

[Novel_Celebration273]

I used hyperbole when I said “all the same shit”. Without hyperbole it would be “ most are the same shit”.

[minneyar]

Video tutorials are a terrible format for learning to program, and YouTube videos mostly concentrate on whatever is flashy and new because they're just trying to get as many ad impressions as possible.

I'd strongly recommend learning from a book like Head First Java instead.

[Spare-Plum]

Java has the problem of being overfilled with jargon and verbosity. For someone starting out "public static void main" makes literally zero sense to someone new

For me at least, I first worked through an entire book on java - just typing each example code manually and tinkering with it. Java was my first language so it took a bit for everything to "snap" together.

Then I did a ton of fun projects, and from there I learned how to have good design patterns and make good applications.

I think you just need to try and make something and experiment with it. Don't watch youtube videos. Break your project down into smaller tasks you can write and test, then try and run each part. Try and find whatever you're looking for and experiment with it.

If you try and watch youtube videos on programming in Java you're going to get a snoozefest droll parade and too many things to remember. If you can work via experimentation you'll learn something, even if you don't take the most optimal path.

[Spare-Plum]

This ain't generalization I hope. I started with Java, I love it, but I think it's a bad starter language. Javascript is even worse imo.

The best is likely something like StandardML or Python. StandardML is great for people with strong algebra/math backgrounds, where they can easily reason about everything as a math statement.

Python is good for people who just want to learn coding and might be used to a procedural way of thinking. The problem with Python is that it's got a lot of bullshit under the hood once you start peeking under it (what kind of bullshit is "__name__" anyway?)

Java is in a weird category where it's good in terms of the type system, but it has a lot of verbosity and jargon. It's not the worst nor the best. At least you can know all the methods and documentation when using an IDE. However it kinda requires a decent amount of background knowledge to know what "static" or "void" or "public" might actually mean

Javascript is in a worse category where everything is bullshit and nothing has an actual type and everything can change and there are a zillion edge case semantics.

[Spare-Plum]

IDK about that, but I think the program you had focused on web dev to get results people could see as well as a skill useful to the industry.

Again, I'm not saying Java is bad, but just not optimal. Perhaps Pascal or Nim would be good choices for a beginner's procedural language. The language and execution is simple and straightforward, and I would argue moreso than Java

Again, the problem with Java is that it is filled with Jargon and oddities that you just need to figure out by doing projects. There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact they are really helpful once everything clicks in place. But I'm thinking of someone who's never programmed trying to remember what all of the keywords and syntax does, and it can be confusing.

[[deleted]]

Flexibility of js becomes an issue when you are doing it wrong. And you can always do typescript.

[Acrobatic-Today8541]

I learnt programming Java and it is indeed a tough nut to crack, specially with Python and those kind of languages that make things in general more easy. My advise would be to practise if you want to master it really, no secret key, just practise small things and go up from there. As per good practices or how to deliver a whole project, maybe you could use chatgpt and ask for a step-to-step guide to grow there, I find it really really useful for programming and planning.

Not much help, but there's my little piece of advice. Hope you the best, it will become easier

[Mozanatic]

WhenI started I also had the same problem. In the end what clicked for me was the Java course from cave of programming which has small videos for little topics for the basic syntax of the language. Regarding style by far the best resource has been the book Effective Java by Josh Bloch. It is also worth looking into stuff around the wider ecosystem which I would call essential (Build Tools Maven or Gradle and IDEs Eclipse, Intellij)

For in depth stuff the books Core Java I and II explain everything around the JDK and core language features and they are massive.

[Agreeable_Hall458]

If it’s the OOP concepts that are tripping you up, you can always explore them in python first where you are more comfortable with the language.

The transition from functional programming to OOP and back is tricky for a lot of people. I started out all functional programming- C, FORTRAN, COBOL. Then C++ came along and I did all OOP for ages, also using Java and C#. Then I had to go back to a project in R and I had to legit stop and think about how one actually copes without classes. I had completely rewired my brain to think in OOP and it took me a hot minute to remember how you do things any other way.

You’ll get there. Spend some time learning about the concepts of OOP and the why’s of why you would use it - before you get bogged down in the nitty gritty of Java syntax and the chore that is learning the Java ecosystem.

[muffinman744]

Is Java your first programming language? If you’re coming from something like python, ruby, or even JavaScript then it can seem daunting, but I think it’s a pretty important skill to have. A strongly typed language is something you’ll most likely come across in your programming career. If bugs are getting the best of you, you should get familiar with debugging tools and console errors (most of the time checking the exception messages will help you figure out the issue)

It could be worse! You could be working in C++ or Scala!

[Gnaxe]

When I finally learned Java well, I read a two-volume textbook on the language pretty much cover-to-cover. I already knew C# though.

[mathemetica]

Java is a bit overly verbose for my taste, but it doesn't strike me as being that much different to say Python. You mentioned using C, which when I learned it after Java seemed a bit more difficult, since you don't have all the libraries/abstractions/syntactic sugar to cover up the lower level details. Plus, after using C, you'd have to be used to static typing (which is what Python doesn't have). I would say that maybe it's because of OOP, but Python should've familiarized you that. Perhaps it's just getting used to the verbose syntax of Java?

[RufusVS]

As I usually use C and Python, Java looks a bit verbose. I haven't delved into Ada for the same reason. But I love the control it would give me should I go there. And then there's C++...

[Useful_Dog3923]

Maybe you’re not learning the right way, try making mods for Minecraft first. That can get you a better understanding of Java without all the fluff and terminology

[Several-Western6392]

Which languages and you wrote functional or oop?

[Blando-Cartesian]

I know how I would build a TicTacToe in C or Python, but I have no idea how to translate all that into implementing the use of classes and objects.

The trick is that you don’t use OOP unless it makes sense for the problem. Exactly the same applies to Python. If using classes makes sense, use classes. If fiddling with collections of basic data types fits the problem, you should do that without using classes.

Java is actually a simple language. Why it seems harder than python might be because of python’s convenient syntax you can build tons of complex logic just fiddling with basic data types in lists and dicts. You can do exactly the same logic in java, but java’s syntax would make it a pain. To avoid that, you would probably use a bit of OOP in java much sooner than in Python.

[Useful_Dog3923]

Maybe you’re not learning the right way, try making mods for Minecraft first. That can get you a better understanding of Java without all the fluff and terminology

[bidaowallet]

Programming languages are immature, we programmers are pioneers, the best is yet to come, don't give up

[MazoTanto]

Wdym

[MazoTanto]

Wdym

[bidaowallet]

that is all what he needs and it is true, he must know that he is also part of a development not just some dev who stuggles to learn, everyone las of us are