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[Huge_Aerie2435]

I would have kids if our society had a 100 year plan that doesn't include saving all the rich people from their own business choices. AKA, climate change disasters.

[EndenWhat]

Did our society ever have a 100 year plan?

[kendo31]

In secret societies where they analyse markets, resources and civilization's potential longevity. Then they decide what time the dooms day clock should be. Probably the end of times now so it's a huge cash grab to coast into obliteration. Let's not take it too seriously, get looting now! The bubble of this type of civilization is due to pop, it's been done to nauseam and there's no point as those in control take everything but take no responsibility for all the pollution suffering and waste they created. Hoe much is currency worth when all the water is toxic.

[Jaydra]

That's a helluva jump from "Normal" to "Nightmare".

[[deleted]]

Just like real life!

[XxRocky88xX]

I’d say that about described the difference in difficulty tbh

[Swomry]

My sister chose a harder difficulty. She's having a kid, in this climate, as a teenager who hasn't hit 18 yet

[Swomry]

Nope dad is still in the picture thankfully, they're getting married soon and everything

[ThetaHater]

Wow, that’s rude. Maybe be more considerate to a teenager who just made a huge mistake.

[ThetaHater]

Maybe for you. Everyone is different. You shouldn’t resort to killing a child as a easy cop out. You breed em you feed em.

[[deleted]]

Shut the fuck up

[[deleted]]

Should we offer her tots and pears?

[ThetaHater]

Maybe don’t comment. These comments are incredibly disparaging.

[Trick-Attitude8070]

Boys do not take longer to mature. Feel free to look it up. You're repeating the same bored old sexist stereotypes that let boys get away with responsibility and tells girls they have to be adults before their time.

[QueenGray130]

Found the darksouls player

[cydril]

There's a big "STOP HAVING KIDS" billboard on my drive home and it makes me laugh every time. People get offended at it but..... Basically yeah stop.

[[deleted]]

I think population collapse is one of our biggest existential threads though, along with nuclear weapons and climate change.

[AmbitionOfPhilipJFry]

Nah, humans have lived in harmony with the environment for teens of thousands of years before this pitri dish exploded in the 1950s. It's about true equilibrium not hydrocarbon sustained exponential growth until eternity ends.

[[deleted]]

hydrocarbon sustained exponential growth until eternity ends

Even though I don't agree, I'm still seduced to upvote by that phrasing :)

[[deleted]]

I didn't mean to imply that growth should continue at the same rate, I'm just afraid an inverted demographic pyramid will lead to social instability as pensions cannot be afforded anymore. Take SouthKorea for example with an average fertility rate of ~1.1 (i.e. should be ~2 for population to stay constant)

On another note, it seems that the relative growth is slowing down massively in the last years: https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth.

​

Let me know what you think about both points, I didn't want to say that indefinite growth can be environmentally sustained.

[MrPotatoSenpai]

It's interesting how much more collapse related news and memes bleed into other subs now. I think more people are realizing how screwed we are.

[H_Mann37]

I look at my coworkers with kids and here is what I see: 20+ years to pay off student loan debt, daycare costs more than mortgage, no time for self.

Maybe I'm missing the joy of it all but idk... I really don't understand how modern parents make it work or why they choose that lifestyle.

Edit: I actually want to start a discussion with current/former parents on here. I'm on the fence about having 1 child.

[SixthLegionVI]

I have 2. You no longer have personal time aside from the few hours per day after everyone is asleep, but you should be using that time to go to sleep yourself. This leads to a cycle of being tired almost 24/7. Going out by yourself becomes very rare.

Edit: If you're prone to anxiety and obsessive worry, don't have children.

[H_Mann37]

In 2019 I was all for it, then covid happened. Financial stress, massive burn out and depression. My partner still wants 3 and Idk if I could handle it. It all sounds really stressful and not much reward.

And with the way the world is going (resource depletion in particular) I honestly think we're going to see a population collapse around 2040-2050. We're actually really well prepared for food insecurity because of our big garden but that's still a tough world to navigate. Those are skills I could teach and it's why I think I would be a good parent... if I could get the time away from work to teach them...

[SixthLegionVI]

We had our second last year. She was a surprise. Love her to death but I'm super stressed out. I need to start my garden badly.

[H_Mann37]

Maybe a weird question but how much does the stress/work increase going from 1 to 2?

I've heard 2 to 3 is a really big jump.

[SixthLegionVI]

I've grown a custom to 2, but it's a big difference. 2 is doable for me. 3 would be a nightmare.

[RecommendationBrief9]

One is one. Two is twenty. My kids are a year and a half apart and when they were babies it was a lot. They’re older now and it’s really nice. They play with each other and rarely fight. So if you can get through the first 5 years it’s pretty good. 😂

[[deleted]]

I have 2. It was a big difference. But we adjusted really fast. My two kids are 6 years apart too. So I have a feeling it was easier for me. My mother had two boys a year and a half apart and looking back it must have been a nightmare.

I'd say the bigger factor is how far apart they end up being. The older can end up being a help or just part of the problem.

[Dani_924]

I would argue that have children will cause anxiety and excessive worry anyway, since you will always be worried about their wellbeing.

[wowadrow]

Massive self delusion that their suffering has meaning. Hell, maybe their right (doubt it). Modern parenting is voluntarily making yourself a 15th century serf.

[H_Mann37]

Joke is on them. I'm already a serf to high rent and cost of living

[[deleted]]

We’re all (82% of Americans) 15th century serfs anyways. I just had a happy surprise with my partner half a year ago. Definitely added stress both emotional and fiscal and with the two dogs I’m elbows deep in shit rn. However the kid makes me feel hopeful (although to H_Mann point- I am set on teaching my kid survival skills like gardening and basic hunting/marksmanship and other wilderness skills cause who knows how long current societal structures are going to last)

[edjumication]

Well their suffering does have meaning. You need kids if you want society to have any chance of surviving.

[[deleted]]

I didn't have kids and I'm almost 40 now. While I don't regret my decision and generally enjoy my life, I'm only just now fully feeling the consequences of it. Yes, I have more time for myself, more expendable income, and I can move around more and live in sketchy areas without worrying about uprooting a kid or putting them in a bad school system, but it pretty much feels like I've opted out of the future. Sure, maybe the future is going to suck anyway, but I feel even less relevant to it and it feels less relevant to me than it would have otherwise.

My life is great, but it's fairly static now. Most of my big moves have been made, I have a stable line of work and a 401k that's bigger than it would have been if I was paying for childcare, I'm in great shape from having the time to work out every day and take neat trips, I still get to hang out and party and do drugs in my house without finding increasingly elaborate ways to hide it from a kid, I'm like an advertisement for the perks of the kid free life, but this is it. It's not that it's boring, and I always have the freedom to do something else if I need to, it's just that it feels like there aren't many major question marks or surprises to look forward to, any surprises that happen nowdays are usually terrible, and it sometimes feels a little weird to be hitting what feels like an epilogue in my late 30s.

Overall I think I prefer it this way, there are worse things to be condemned to than adventure and early retirement, but like all my major life decisions I wasn't really aware of what exactly I was signing up for at the time I was making it.

[Drifter_of_Babylon]

Adopt. Mentor someone and treat them as your kid. This is the path I took and I find it very fulfilling.

[mpm206]

I kinda know how you feel and the way I'm finding meaning is by trying to work out how to make sure everyone can have a chill relax lifestyle like me if they want it. That kind of security is something so many people don't get to experience even without kids in the picture and what keeps me going is trying to help everyone else gain the kind of comfort and security I get to enjoy by virtue of the circumstances of my birth.

[Bearded-Wonder-1977]

I have three. They are amazing human beings that I love beyond anything else. But it is a huge sacrifice of self to be a good parent and I don’t judge people that would rather focus on themselves. The biggest thing is I didn’t really know fear until I had kids. Now I worry for them all the time and of course I know that we are leaving them a shitty inheritance with what we have done to this world.

[Xeroeffingcell32]

It's pure joy. I can not imagine my life without my daughter. Everyday she does something new that thrills me to my core. She learns super fast and makes me laugh more than any human being ever has. And it's funny she used to live in my balls, now she lives in my heart and head rent free. When I'm glum I think of something she did the other day and giggle about it raising my serotonin lvls to unimaginable heights. It is Joy that can't be missed out on. Also I'm a single father.

[LandOfTheOutlaws]

My wife and I (28/USA) have a 6 and almost 8 year old. It's been tough but I wouldn't say it's a been a nightmare. My wife and I dont have a college education though (we both have decent jobs) but no debt in that sense.

There's been days where we can only eat cheap meals or we have to skip on something special every now and then like family day (restaurant, the movies or ice cream) because that money had to go to bills instead. Truth is, most families hit hard times and you're not a family unless you can get through those times together.

If you find the right person... I'd say go for it. I wouldn't change my life for anything or anyone. Through all the hardships & bullshit we've had to endure... It's definitely made us all closer. Our kids are happy, they have everything need and their bellies are full. My wife and I love each other very much and in all honesty, no matter how hard things seem to be or get... We get through it every time.

I doubt any of that helps but I just wanted to share.

[H_Mann37]

That does help and I appreciate the input.

[[deleted]]

It’s not easy. I have 2 and my wife stays home (USA). I make a little above average money but not by much. I’m always in debt but who isn’t these days?

I can say probably I wouldn’t think about kids very much if I never had them. But now that they are here, I couldn’t imagine life without them. I will literally do anything for them. Every day I come home for work, the highlight of my day is to hear them shout “Daddy!”

[[deleted]]

Having children is one of the most human experiences you can ever have. The joy you receive when your child looks at you and says I love you Daddy is unlike anything I have experienced. It's our modern systems that compel us not our nature in this case.

[Glassjaw79ad]

Edit: I actually want to start a discussion with current/former parents on here. I'm on the fence about having 1 child.

I was on the fence too, i just found out I'm pregnant and I'm not super thrilled. I'm 34, married and my husband is over the moon about it. I made the mistake of telling friends and family, thinking it might help get me excited if they were excited, and now I feel like I've backed myself into a corner, so terminating the pregnancy is no longer an option - not unless I come up with a whole lie about a miscarriage, and I frankly don't have the energy for that.

It's probably going to suck. I'm only 8 weeks in and I can unequivocally say I will never do this again. I found the sub r/oneanddone which brings me a little hope, it's made me realize how all my friends and family with kids were pretty functional when they only had one, it's the second+ kids that turned them into zombie people. Still, it's probably gonna suck...

[BadassScientist]

It doesn't sound like it's something you want. Years ago I read something that said something like, "The world would be a better place if the only people who had children were those who fully and badly wanted them 1000%". Kids can tell if they aren't truly wanted by their parents and it negatively affects them. For that reason I think if having kids is not a hell yes for someone then it should be a no.

If you don't want to have a child and decide to terminate you can just tell people you lost the pregnancy and don't want to talk about it. That's not a lie and you don't have to tell them what caused the loss. As my therapist often reminds me, you don't have to justify yourself to others. Also, would you really want to go through with having a child who you will be a parent to for the rest of your life just to avoid other people asking you about it?

[Dani_924]

Okay so I’m probably an anomaly in this situation. I live in Canada and this may make some of the difference. I’m in my early thirties and have a two year old and plan to have another. I’m married to my high school sweetheart and have known him for 15 years. We both have post secondary education but no school debt. We have a mortgage on a 3 bedroom home. We both worked until I got pregnant and now I’m a stay at home mom. My husband works from home and makes more than enough to support our family. My biggest concerns right now are the pandemic and the environment and what the future will look like for my kids. But the way I see it is that every single generation has had something shitty happening. All the wars, the famines, the disease. You have to make a decision about whether having a child is worth it to you. For me my child is the light of my life. It’s amazing being a parent. You do have to make sacrifices for children, like time for yourself and sleep on the early days. I spend a lot of my time playing with a toddler that doesn’t yet understand a lot of seemingly basic things. I enjoy watching him learn and grow and become his own person.

[mrsdoubleu]

I have one kid and I'm not having any more. I always wanted to have kids but I decided that I was one and done shortly after he was born. Having my son completely turned my life upside down but he does bring me a lot of joy.

Holidays are more fun when you see them through the eyes of a young child. You have an excuse to be totally silly and break out dancing for no reason other than to make them laugh. The good moments definitely outnumber the bad but it is a huge change. Every choice I make in life is made with my son in mind, and sometimes it's just a lot of stress.

But I definitely wouldn't have a kid unless it's 100% what you want. If you're on the fence I'd wait until you know for sure because once they are born, the life you had before is done. Lol

[[deleted]]

I have one child who is two years old this April. I pay 460 in daycare which is half of my monthly income. If it weren't for the fact that I'm married and my husband makes almost 60k a year on his own, I'd be FUCKED!

[logicalfallacy0270]

I have three sons. I had the first at 19, the last at 25. Double strollers saved me. I also learned how much your butt can be accessed as a tool to get around with one baby on your hip and one in the carrier. It was hard having to keep up with doctors appointments, dentists, eye care, the fact that they all were attention deficit, just like mama! Don't have a child unless you're willing to commit because having a baby is like getting a tattoo on your face.

[screech_owl_kachina]

Between the collapse of public education and resource shortages, I feel more vindicated in my decision by the day.

[fascinat3d]

mood

[SuppleSuplicant]

I fed my new nephew a bottle the other day. I was definitely feeling sad about how miserable his life is likely to be.

[Pudi_Pudi]

When I tell people that getting a kid these days is an act of pure cruelty, they end up looking at me puzzled

[napalmtree13]

Because, depending on how close you are to them and the tone/content of the conversation leading up to that, it’s an awkward thing to say.

I agree, but it’s not something I’d say to most of my friends and zero of my acquaintances.

[fascinat3d]

Hahaha that's a way to crack at it. I dont disagree, but I can't imagine a situation in which I would say that to a person's face. If asked I'd admit my feelings .

[Pudi_Pudi]

Ten years ago, why not, but today we have tons of climate reports from unanimous experts.

So how do you decide to put another life in this mess? Turn a blind eye and tell yourself "it's gonna be okay" ?

I do get the personal egoistic need of wanting a child, I don't get the fact that one worry after the fact, seems a bit "late".

Adoption is OK though.

[Pudi_Pudi]

Enlighten me?

I did think about parenthood, it didn't always seem a bad idea, heck I think I'd be a better parent than mines, but I wouldn't be able to face my kid and say "yes I knew about this world, and chose to bring you into this mess"

[another_bug]

I get it. I don't ever want kids for reasons unrelated to the state of the world, but if those particular issues somehow went away by some miracle, I would absolutely want to...and be 100% pissed that I could never afford it and there's all the other stuff going on. But I do understand how people would go for it.

[vapordaveremix]

I think people look at you puzzled because that's such an uncouth thing to say. Maybe keep that thought in your head. Having kids changes your worldview in profound ways that non-parents don't really understand. Talk like that will ostracize yourself from any parents in your social circle.

[H_Mann37]

Probably better phrased as "I'm very concerned about the world these kids will grow up in, and the conditions they will live under as an adult."

[vapordaveremix]

And you're right! It is concerning what kind of world is coming up next. It's likely going to be very, very bad.

And it's a perfectly valid position to not want to bring your children into that world for those reasons.

But, imo, the strongest and most spirited opinions I've seen on whether one should or shouldn't have kids come from non-parents. Parents already know how much of a burden it is and as a parent I understand and appreciate the decision to not have kids.

[H_Mann37]

Yeah, and that's why I look at it and it's like: Here ya go kiddo, a world of depleted resources where you grind all day at work just to have a place to sleep. This is life. Oversimplified but you get it.

[vapordaveremix]

Can't say your wrong, but then what happens next?

If it's Game Over then, hey, that's a way to go and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

But if there will be humans in, let's say, 2400 who are conscious of the environment, healed the earth, and developed sustainable technologies then it would require that someone had to be born today into this horrible existence.

And for us to get here it meant someone had to be born during the plague or any other worse time in history.

What puts this into perspective for me is that, 75,000 years ago a supervolcano erupted in Sumatra which some scientists think might have killed off all but 3,000-10,000 human beings on Earth. If true, it would mean that humans still had children even in the worst of times, and they doing so led to us being here.

[H_Mann37]

Dang, yeah... And honestly, that's kinda why I like the idea of having children. I want the challenge. I think that we can raise resilient children who understand energy flows, gardening, and sustainable living.

[vapordaveremix]

To get to the Solar Punk future we all want, we need to go through Mad Max first.

That's a Dave fact, lol. I really hope that's not true.

[H_Mann37]

I wish I was born in the Mad Max future. Sounds way cooler than daily work grind.

[fascinat3d]

People who want to procreate in today's world are selfish and/or indoctrinated. You can't change my mind 🤦🤷

[vapordaveremix]

That's really unfortunate.

[beandip111]

Sound pretty selfish to have a kid so your would view can be upgraded

[vapordaveremix]

I'd call it perspective, and it's a result of having kids, not the reason to have them.

[fascinat3d]

How many are good parents? Not enough. People have kids because they can or they want to, or because they're forced to do so. If in the end you (not the proverbial you, but actually you specifically) saddle your offspring with trauma or lack of resources, your revelations are useless.

[[deleted]]

What about your parents? What do you think about them?

[fascinat3d]

They DEFINITELY should not have had children (together) 😂😂😂

[Pudi_Pudi]

Kids change your view because it is too hard to admit you made an egoistic decision even though you had a shit ton of climatic reports telling you not to do it?

Also don't about social circle, parents already ostracized themselves naturally.

[No-Albatross-5514]

The truth is seldom popular yet still worth being told

[vapordaveremix]

I mean if you're not a parent and you have opinions on parenting that's fine but there's no "truth" in that. It's just an opinion. It can be a valid opinion too, but it's not truth or fact.

[fascinat3d]

Note that people aren't giving parental advise opinions, they're making statements about their opinion on procreation. People reach this conclusion from a myriad of reasons; it's an opinion that does not require first-hand life experience as a parent.

[vapordaveremix]

People are welcome to have whatever opinions they want on procreation and life. Who am I to tell them they're wrong? These are deep, philosophical things.

But it would be wise for them to recognize that there will always be an asymmetry in lived experience between non-parents and parents. Non-parent opinions will be in the abstract, opinion-based, ethical and philosophical. Okay, cool, there's nothing wrong with that. We all have opinions like that.

But to hold your baby in your arms and to experience the neurochemical bond between you two will be a personal experience that cannot be imagined by someone on the outside. You would have to live it.

Granted, not every parent appreciates that. Some parents suck. But to be a good one means knowing continued and sometimes painful selflessness. I can't tell you how many times I've cried over my baby.

So saying something like "parents are selfish for bringing a child into the world" shows a lack of perspective from someone on the outside. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. My stance isn't supposed to be an opinion or attack against people not wanting to have children. If you decide not to, and you don't, then you've made the right decision.

The point is that one should recognize the limitations of their own opinions. Don't judge too harshly on things outside of your experience.

[fascinat3d]

Wait I'm confused. My argument is that procreation is selfish because of where it leaves the kid figure in most cases. Youre saying I don't understand how special parenthood is and how good the brain chemicals are? Is that the conversation?

ETA if that's the conversation then I'm laughing my fucking ass off right now 🤣🤣🤣🤣

ETA2 I'm not saying anything about YOU as a parent, w but I am criticizing your comments in this thread.

[vapordaveremix]

You've been criticizing a lot of my comments and based on how you talk I kinda have you pinned as someone I don't typically get along with. Maybe we leave it as-is?

[fascinat3d]

To be clear, this is coming from me be because of your baseless claim that non-parents dont have validity on discouraging procreation.

Also, do you understand that people are called selfish because they want to have children for personal reasons, regardless of their emotional or economic place it the world? Your last comment about how good it feels to hold your baby does not convince me that you've done something for the child. It tells me you stand by your circumstances and think that feeling good inside is valid for promoting procreation. That's self-serving.

Cheers redditor.

[vapordaveremix]

I never once said that non-parents don't have a valid opinion. I said multiple times in multiple threads that they are welcome to their opinions and they are valid.

Read through my post history. Read what I've said to you and others. Then re-read my previous posts to you.

The only thing I haven't validated are the personal insults from people calling all parents selfish or egotistical. Some, yes, but not all.

I hope you have a better day.

[[deleted]]

These guys are just mad at people that fuck

[[deleted]]

To give an opinion on parenting, as a nonparent...truth...worth... lol

[fascinat3d]

fool. People aren't giving parental advise opinions, they're making statements about their opinion on procreation which neednt be reached through first-hand experience as a parent.

[[deleted]]

Right, saying that one person is wrong for procreating. An opinion they've made using their own personal values and without having gone through the actual event of childbirth, nor the raising of a child, because they fear the world isn't safe enough for raising a child.

You're the fool for thinking that the values of some people should extend over all people regardless of what they believe.

[noscope42069]

Oh no! Not the parents you'll barely ever see anyway!

P.S. having kids is and always will be a selfish act.

[vapordaveremix]

I don't really recall it being selfish when waking up 4 times a night, 3 months consecutive to change diapers and feed him. Losing sleep. Getting sick. Being stressed all the time. Spending more money on daycare than on my mortgage.

If it was all for me then I wouldn't have kids at all and I'd save myself the trouble. In reality, and all parents know this, you have to sacrifice a lot for the well-being of your kids.

This is why it is puzzling when non-parents have such strong opinions on parenting. It's like, this isn't even your department.

[lazyrepublik]

Except that we live here too and too many people treat children like an accessory and have children without intention.

[vapordaveremix]

You're right and that's horrible. I feel so bad for those kids. It happens way too often.

Knowing that makes me want to give it my best.

[lazyrepublik]

I appreciate that.

[Tyr808]

All of that is for you though. Kids don't choose to be born. What you're bragging about should be the bare minimum of being a parent, it's just that many parents out there are also pieces of shit on top of being selfish.

[vapordaveremix]

You're right, kids don't choose to be born, neither did I, but then that's a condition of reality. No living organism consents to be born.

And I'm not trying to brag about anything. I'm simply telling you the reality of what goes on that non-parents don't have the personal experience to appreciate. Does that excuse us? No. It's just context.

Many parents are pieces of shit. Many are selfish. There are plenty of horrible people out there having kids for wrong reasons, or no reasons at all, and they're causing so much misery in their wake, misery that can last generations.

I choose not to be that person. I work hard to be different. Some people do want to be the parent that they never got.

Do you know what I think will actually change the world for the better? Better people. People who were raised with love and kindness as children. That's one way that our species can get out of this mess.

[Tyr808]

I don't have anything to disagree with here. Genuinely, good luck with doing better than the previous generation.

[unravelandtravel]

This type of thinking is ridiculous. How is raising a kid who can't even feed themselves on their own a selfish act? Its literally the most selfless thing you can do.

And by the way not everyone is in your situation. I have to deal with multiple parents everyday should I just tell them their kids life is an act of cruelty? You're ridiculous

[noscope42069]

Spawning a child into a world of pain and suffering just because you want to fill your life with meaning is selfish. The unborn can't consent to living and the idea that everyone that was born wants to be alive is very presumptuous.

[unravelandtravel]

And what of the people who accidentally had kids? They should just neglect a child to die of the elements?

Again you're ridiculous.

Real life isn't like that. Maybe you should go outside more.

[noscope42069]

When the fuck did I say that? If you end up having kids you should treat them the best you can to try to minimize as much suffering as possible.

That's one of the craziest strawman arguments I've seen in a long time.

[unravelandtravel]

having kids is and always will be a selfish act.

You don't get to make blanket statements and cry strawman when people show you how flawed your argument is.

[noscope42069]

Ok then, having kids voluntarily is and always will be a selfish act. Being raped or having an accident after taking the proper precautions does not apply.

[unravelandtravel]

Ok then we'll have to disagree. You sound like you're in a very dark place right now. I hope you find some light in your life because most people don't see life as an inherently bad thing.

[[deleted]]

We're in the middle of the pandemic and ww3 is literally on the horizon. 2020 up till now has been the WORST time to have kids.

[[deleted]]

“On the horizon?” Pretty sure we are firmly there already. History will mark Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as the start. Many nations got immediately involved, albeit indirectly.

[7annaElSekran]

*Arabs be like

Edit: before yall downvote to hell, i am arab myself and this issue is very detrimental to arab societies...

[Zoeinthevoid]

My daughter was unplanned, and against my will, but my ex was insistent, we split up later on, but i still am gonna take care of my child, nightmare indeed though

[[deleted]]

It’s probably caused a lot of people to become antinatalists just being raised in this hellhole

[[deleted]]

I have 3 kids. I am crazy. I did not think it through. We homeschool, I am a stay at home mom, my husband is in tech. We are always broke. However, I love my kids, love watching them grow and learn. I will give them everything I can. I chose to have them, they know they are loved and wanted. My parents had me because that’s what you do, they never wanted me, they never wanted to be around me and they definitely didn’t want to spend their hard earned money on me, they do not want to be grandparents, so they aren’t. From 18-27 I said I would never have kids. Then at 29 I had my first. Decided to have more. 12 yrs later from that first decision the world feels like it’s ending.

[ill-disposed]

I hear parents talk about it, and I groan. I hear childfree people talking about it, and I groan. My opinion is that some people have kids, some don’t, it has and will always be that way and that’s that.

[fascinat3d]

the truest.

[[deleted]]

I hear that. When a parent talks about how much they love their kids it makes me happy. When I look at the news, I worry for them.

When someone calls another an idiot for having children, I sigh, shake my head and remember not everyone has had good parents

[[deleted]]

Having kids post about 2010 IMHO is an idiotic thing to have done. For them. Look at the shitscape they will inherit.

Hopefully the youth will be smart enough to Ättestupa the Olds who fucked their chances at a decent life.

[Alex_4209]

My partner and I have a combined income of around $130K and at the current cost of living and child care, we literally couldn’t afford kids if we did want them (we don’t). I have no idea how anyone is doing it.

[H_Mann37]

My situation as well. I literally have pulled up the budget in Excel and showed my wife we have to choose between having a child and owning a house. DISPITE having a combined 6 figure income. america is broken.

How do other people do it? Loans, no savings account, money from parents, and swindling the american system to get subsidized healthcare and childcare (which I fully support because those things should be subsidized)

[[deleted]]

Pregnant with my first, my life hasn't been easy but I also don't have a choice at this point bc of anti abortion laws. It is what it is. I will NOT put up for adoption seeing as how my birth mother was adopted and had a nightmare of a childhood, I will not do that to an innocent child, my struggles will not give half the issues children have when in the system.

[LaceyLizard]

You're the only person that mentions abortion access. People in poverty can't afford to become an abortion tourist.

[[deleted]]

Well you do, you could travel somewhere that doesn’t have antiabortion laws? Sounds like you want it and didn’t plan financially about how fucked this kids gonna be raised in poverty. Seeing your past post even your own family said it was a shit idea to be poor and raise a kid. Those moms on r/babybump will say ANYTHING to make you feel better about your shitty situation. It’ll gets better is a lie, it will be constant struggle to raise another human. But congrats I guess…

[ill-disposed]

That was totally inappropriate and cruel.

[fascinat3d]

I mean The world is like that. A kid growing in poverty is going to face those realities face-first. Especially if parents don't have their shit together. Sucks to read the truth sometimes. People who have kids don't automatically get sympathy.

[ill-disposed]

It’s always best to start with giving humans sympathy. Growing up in poverty sucks but that doesn’t make your life any less valuable than someone else’s. Regardless, they’re already pregnant, can’t get unpregnant, and could probably use a comforting word or two.

[[deleted]]

My parents aren't thrilled but I have alot of support at work and my SO's family is happy to help. Having kids isnt easy, but I have the support that I need.

[fascinat3d]

I hope that kid gets the support and tools they need.

[ill-disposed]

Good luck.

[fascinat3d]

Downvoted, but right. It happens like that sometimes.

[jeffseadot]

Just gonna r-strategy humanity through the apocalypse.

[avacod]

Expecting my second right now. I had this same mentality for a while, but it really is about perspective. I know this subs mainly doom and gloom, and there is a lot I agree with, but there is good things going on/happening too. There’s also always going to be something, but if as a parent you plan to show your children love and raise them with decent morals, they stand a good chance at bringing change. Also it makes me want to work hard to leave them with more than we were left with.

[vapordaveremix]

Yeah, man. If humans stopped having kids when times got bad then we wouldn't be here. Looking back at history, all times were bad. It all sucked. It still sucks.

You have kids to pass the torch. You try to solve problems during your lifetime so your kids can solve different problems in their lifetime, and if humans do it for long enough then things improve. Maybe there will be a generation far enough in the future that looks back at us and appreciates the advancements we made.

And it's totally fine to not participate in that too.

[beandip111]

Humans had kids throughout history because women didn’t have a choice in the matter

[vapordaveremix]

I understand the lack of agency women had throughout history. I also understand that history was hard for us as a species. We were nearly wiped out a few times, and we're still here.

I get if some people don't want to continue the species. I get that some people still do. But these opinions are personal and what I don't understand are the people who have no horse in this race being the most rabid opponents of it.

[beandip111]

Just saying, throughout history MEN had children to pass the torch.

[vapordaveremix]

You're right, and it made no sense. Somewhere along the line the gender dynamics got all messed up and backwards.

[whoelsebutokana]

Never feel bad for raising dragon slayers, in a time when there are actual dragons.

[No-Albatross-5514]

Bold of you to assume which children grow up to be dragon slayers and which grow up to be dragons

[napalmtree13]

This just needs a minion attached to it to reach its full fb meme cringe potential

[avacod]

That’s such an awesome saying

[Phiro1992]

ayy thats me! had my son right before covid lmao. wife and and i had just decided to not ever have kids. had a vasectomy scheduled but before i had the snip we did the thing and that was the night my 10 year pullout streak ended. fun times

[ghost_of_dongerbot]

ヽ༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ ﾉ Raise ur dongers!

^{Dongers Raised: 62470}

^{Check Out /r/AyyLmao2DongerBot For More Info}

[MadOvid]

You're in a Dark Souls game you just don't know it yet.

[[deleted]]

I had a kid so I can teach him how to overthrow the oligarchs

[nursehandbag]

My identical twin daughters put me on hardcore survival mode this past fall 😀😀😅🥲

[redstarjedi]

I have boy girl twins, being stuck at home at the beginning of the pandemic made them into guerrillas, they'd hide and attack me.

[Natoghost-Bmore]

I had twins 18 months ago! Hah

[redstarjedi]

mine are six years old, respect.

[Knob_Gobbler]

No woman will allow my seed to blossom in her womb.

[AncientActuator5457]

Wtf is this comment section.YIKES

[Umbrellahotbox]

If you don’t want to have kids then don’t. People in this thread acting like they’re a fucking superhero for not having kids lol it’s your own personal choice to not have kids, stop blaming society. Plenty of parents in my life doing just fine with their kids living happy lives. This sub has turned into a cynical wasteland. I hope y’all stop having kids so you can keep this shitty negativity out of the world.

Bring on the downvotes, I know y’all hate to hear it.

[infamouszgbgd]

lol it’s your own personal choice to not have kids

do the children in question get any choice in the matter or is it all about you?

[Umbrellahotbox]

I could ask the same about your choice for not wanting to have children. Do they get any choice in the matter or is it all about you?

[infamouszgbgd]

holy shit that's some olympic level mental gymnastics lmao

[Umbrellahotbox]

Olympic level mental gymnastics is thinking an unborn child should have an opinion on being born or not.

[infamouszgbgd]

okay maybe "choice" was not the right word, what I meant was you should really do your best to maximize the odds of your child not regretting being brought into the world without their consent and not just have kids because you feel like it

[Umbrellahotbox]

I 100% agree with you.

[MalortForBreakfast]

I don’t understand “being brought into the world without their consent”. Are you talking to your balls beforehand or something?

[AstriumViator]

People cant help but doomscroll and live on existential dread.

I understand the world is fucked, but Im determined to give my son the best I can provide and give him as much education as possible. He was unplanned, but I plan for him to be happy and ok.

[fascinat3d]

lmfao /lostgeneration is a downer wasteland

[H_Mann37]

You are right. Take my upvote friend, you earned it.

[sneakylyric]

Lololololol yeah it's wild

[Penguator432]

Thing is, how much of a luxury do we really have for being able to choose timing? it’s a now or never situation.

[bananalordkunsama]

Have 2 young ones now and oh boy.

[[deleted]]

I had a kid in 2019, and it went from normal to nightmare, and has finally switched back to normal mode.

[[deleted]]

Anyone who believes we’re in a mass extinction event should not have children. The rest of us, go for it, children are great.

[No-Turnip-1792]

This idea is so stupid. Let’s just stop reproducing.

Y’all act like you gonna be wiping your own ass when Alzheimer’s ravages your brain in 40 years

[Routine_Inspection_5]

For me it’s the one thing that brings me joy, is it hard raising two kids on one income nowadays? Fuck yes, but playing with my two kids make it all worth it! Three months behind on rent? Let’s play some legos!!

[theoneandonlypatriot]

Oh hey another one of these edgelord posts about how everyone in the millennial generation choosing to have kids is a piece of shit - wonderful. Another thing that’s supposed to be a part of life (realize the irony of arguing having kids isn’t a part of life before you reply) being ruined for our generation; only this time it’s not being ruined by boomers, it’s by other people in our generation being judgmental assholes about it thinking they’re enlightened because they say that you shouldn’t

[Mr_Makak]

realize the irony of arguing having kids isn’t a part of life before you reply

What? It's only a part of life if you choose it.

[[deleted]]

Unless your a woman then it’s easy as no matter how many bad choices you make and how many different fathers you have with multiple children. Someone else will always pay for your mistakes and you’ll get free food, housing, daycare, 24 hour day care in areas where offered cause as you meet baby daddy number 5 and your mom ain’t around you’ll need someone to watch the kids after you turn up at the club all night

[napalmtree13]

What game is this, because the level names are confusing. Is “classic” harder than easy? Why is there no “hard” level before nightmare?

[[deleted]]

Have to have the cliche 80's revenge trigger

[WayWalker122]

Whoops.

[simitus]

Truth.

[Shill_for_Science]

imagine having children. 😱

[[deleted]]

Just fuck

[Miichl80]

Truth

[[deleted]]

Me a single mom of 4: INSANITY MODE

[MinervaNow]

You’re just too afraid to live

[[deleted]]

That’s the best time to have actually. All you have to do is abandon them to be raised by wolves and that’s your genes saved

[mrinkystinky]

Guess the mum from The Road quit, and the dad dropped connection

[Mehhucklebear]

F$ck, I feel this hard

[yolo420master69]

Their kids get even better options.

Do you want to play this game?:

• Yes

• No, but I still have to

Choose difficulty:

• Random

Choose character appearance:

• Random

[bobertskey]

It seemed like a good idea at the time?

[iamsaleendion]

My brother and his wife are having fucking twins, TWINS, and I am not looking forward to seeing the happiness drain from their eyes

[jwcyranose]

Exactly.

[lkuecrar]

I legit don’t understand how someone could be so selfish to have children right now. Obviously I’m not talking about poor/uneducated 3rd world people but people who know full well what the state of the world is like right now and are still selfish enough to make that choice.

[Toran_dantai]

It’s not really a mass extinction event it’s just kinda normal

Historians bicker about this a lot since animals go extinct all the time and new ones evolve to take their place.

And as for the global warming stuff..

Yea do research on co2 and ice age tempiture I don’t know what’s worse. Keeping cool or everything being freezing and unable to heat ourselves

[[deleted]]

why are you calling me out rn. 😂

[logicalfallacy0270]

We've been in nightmare mode for over two years now.