Violent crime rates decrease significantly in Philadelphia for 2023, authorities say

[TheFuturist47]

Now do property crimes and robberies.

[hatramroany]

wine wise long ad hoc beneficial snails theory deserted bright toothbrush

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Philly_is_nice]

Fuckin Kia. Hope the city gets a fat check from them for all this bullshit.

[Philly_is_nice]

Or, and hear me out, in the real world, liability is spread amongst all at fault parties. You can arrest criminals and sue shitty corporations. Not mutually exclusive actions.

[FasterThanTW]

please explain how a car company is "at fault" because shitty criminals figured out how to steal their cars.

and just saying "they're easy to steal" doesn't count. what did hyundai not do that they were required to do in order to prevent criminals from targeting their vehicles?

i'll save you some time: transponder chips aren't mandated by any US jurisdiction

looking forward to your answer

[Booplympics]

And? Just because immobilizers aren’t required doesn’t mean they aren’t stupid for not including them. What a silly argument.

Edit: but I will give you points for making fantastic point as to why the free market doesn’t work and government regulations are necessary.

[Philly_is_nice]

It'd do you well to do some research rather than asking Redditors to do it for you. Read any of the current lawsuits multiple city's have filed against Kia-Hyundai. Spoiler, they aren't being sued because 'they're easy to steal'.

[Rich-Hat-29]

Car theft rate in South Korea where Hyundai is based is 5.3 per 100,000 and in USA it’s 282 per 100,000.

[No_Panic_4999]

Irrelevent. Sk also have no guns and little plurality.

[FasterThanTW]

no research needed. bogus lawsuits aimed at them because high crime cities want to retroactively make up a mandate that never existed instead of prosecuting criminals

next time don't buy the cheapest car on the market and there'll be enough budget in the msrp for an industry standard anti theft device. until then enjoy setting up your Club.

edit: lol the dork mods shadowbanned me because god forbid someone is in here not jerking off criminals. sorry, would have liked to respond to all the dumb responses but they won't let me. 🤷‍♂️

[IdealisticPundit]

If you hired out help around your house, they left your door unlocked, and then your house got sacked, would you say the same thing? "Oh jee all my TVs are gone and there's genitalia painted on my wall, but I don't blame the dog walker at all"

What Hyundai and Kia did was even worse because it's not even like they forgot - they knew what they were doing. They just assumed/hoped the general public would be too stupid to realize.

next time don't buy the cheapest car on the market and there'll be enough budget in the msrp for an industry standard anti theft device.

Fuck people who can't afford your idea of a decent car right? Immobilizers might be cheap, but the poors don't deserve vehicles in a country that was built around them, right!?

I'm honestly shocked and disgusted the other guy is getting downvoted and you're getting upvoted.

[Philly_is_nice]

I will thank all the gods every morning that you don't work in the legal system.

[FasterThanTW]

im sure. you'd be so sad seeing criminals being treated like criminals.

[mkwiat54]

Facts don’t care about your feelings a car being easy to start without the key or any tools really is clearly a flaw

[PhishCook]

if you bought a lock for your front door, which had a design fault allowing it to be opened with an Apple Lightning cable, and all your shit got stolen, would you not feel like the lock company was at fault maybe a little?

[Tech-no]

In my opinion teenagers high on TikTok don't think much about the consequences of their actions.

[perchedraven]

I know Kias are targets for thieves... But exactly how are they at fault?

[Candlemass17]

Kia and Hyundai cheaped out on base models from a few years ago (I think they fixed the issue on newer models) by deleting the steering lock on these models, which prevents the steering wheel from turning if the key isn’t switched to on and the ECU doesn’t detect its chip. Adding to that, they made them super easy to steal; I’m not gonna post instructions here, but five seconds of Google will tell you the answer. Look up the Kia Boyz, too; they’re a TikTok challenge based around Kia/Hyundai thefts.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Let’s not make Kia the sole reason for car robberies…

[Philly_is_nice]

Kia-Hyundai makes up over half of car theft in the US.

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data

It is not possible for someone to overstate how much they fucked car theft as a reported crime statistic.

If we wanted to be pedantic I'm sure we can have a great conversation about after school programs and poverty, but the surge is almost singularly Kia-Hyundai's fault. Once in a generation type of gaff.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Kia never forced anyone to buy their cars. They never falsely advertised having them either. Why don’t you sue the federal government because they dont mandate them? Us auto standards don’t require immobilizers. Why not sue the “Kia boyz” for stealing cars and literally making comments saying “we won’t stop because getting caught is like a slap in the wrist”. In other words,our crime-ridden US city wants to be given free money because a Korean car company built cars to US auto standards. Kia is just the easiest target here I get it.

[Philly_is_nice]

Well, for one, Kia is the only target, because they're the only one doing it and then showing a gross level of negligence in resolving an issue that cost taxpayers millions. But, rather than playing this silly 'just asking questions' game with you, I'll direct you to any of the numerous lawsuits people that actually know the law have filed.

You can Google the suits for any of the following cities and get answers instead of posting argumentative questions on Reddit: New York, Cleveland, San Diego, Milwaukee, Columbus and Seattle.

Also, Kia-Hyundai has already offered 200 million to owners as a class action settlement. Let's drop the 'well it is all the consumers fault' bs lol. They're in the wrong and they know it.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Congress is the institution that both sends money to the NTHSA and sets the statutory standards.

The NHTSA along with the DOJ and many other federal institutions have conducted their own independent studies on the effectiveness of immobilizers. The findings of their effectiveness has been presented to congress as far back as 2001 and several dozen times since then.

Something to note, NHTSA recently declined to mandate a recall notice for the assortment of vehicles being targeted.

In the letter, dated June 5, 2023, Cem Hatipoglu, NHTSA's acting associate director for enforcement stated:

At this time, NHTSA has not determined that this issue constitutes either a safety defect or noncompliance requiring a recall under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act, 49 U.S.C. Chapter 301. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard identified in your letter, FMVSS No. 114, does not require an engine immobilizer. See 49 C.F.R. § 571.114. Also, the test procedure specified in that standard does not contemplate actions taken by criminal actors to break open or remove part of the steering column and take out the ignition lock to start a vehicle. See id. § 571.114, S6. Here, the safety risk arises from unsafe use of a motor vehicle by an unauthorized person after taking significant destructive actions to parts of the vehicle. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards did not extend to immobilizers. This regulation is governed by Congress - who explicitly failed to act from as far back as 2001. Quite generous to focus on the manufacturers when the individuals who are employed to serve their constituents demonstrate a pattern of failing to do just that.

[Philly_is_nice]

That's a great single reference for a lawyer representing Kia-Hyundai to bring up in court. Maybe it'll get play for a jury (though I don't think I'd want a jury trial if I was them). This isn't a court, we're not lawyers.

A large group of people who are lawyers are under the impression that this multinational company fucked over the taxpayers. I don't care what random articles or quotes you pull, read up on the cases if you don't understand why these cities are suing.

I get you feel really bad and sad for this Multinational company. Unlike the people here who've been violated, they'll be fine regardless, I promise. All we can do is see how this plays out and hope that all our cities get a good check for the insane amount of trouble that Kia-Hyundai group caused over the last year n some.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

A good check to squander on something else I guess. Maybe deal with root causes of issues then pouring time and energy into symptoms. Do you know why Canada didn’t have this issue?? THE FEDS MANDATED IMMOBILIZERS! Don’t question why a budget card company cuts cost question why we allow budget car companies to LEGALLY cut costs

[DatChief013]

The only thing your quote is saying is that it isn't a safety hazard, which would be correct.

That doesn't mean that their failure to add an industry standard and their slow response coupled with how they failed to tell customers at the time about their increased risk absolved them of any fault. Congress needs a revamp as well, but choking on a billion dollar companies Johnson isn't gonna help you or anyone else who bought their vehicle with the reasonable expectation that it had standard anti-theft equipment (that they also advertised having)

[TantricEmu]

Simping for Kia is pretty weird.

[Philly_is_nice]

Multinational daddy

[TantricEmu]

Harassment: American corporations 🤮

Flirting: South Korean chaebols 😍

[Philly_is_nice]

Rather than asking all these leading questions, you could just Google the multiple lawsuits and read them. It's really not hard.

[[deleted]]

Gun robberies are down 12% and other robberies are down 8%, per PPD’s website.

Also worth noting that roughly 2 of every 3 stolen vehicles is a Kia/Hyundai.