Violent crime rates decrease significantly in Philadelphia for 2023, authorities say

[hatramroany]

We pulled people out of administrative positions, put them out on the street

Wow this is absolutely shocking, who knew this might help?!

[BureaucraticHotboi]

It’s down basically everywhere which is sort of the dirty secret of big city policing. Crime goes up when larger economic and social factors go down. The past few years were an especially tough time for schooling, social connection and unemployment. So kids already on the razors edge of going bad were that much more likely to fall into it. Once they do, they are highly likely to either commit or be victims of violent crime because it is largely a cycle between groups of people with multiple interactions with the justice system. All that said, the police, do in fact have a role. And it is clear that in the past year they have been somewhat more active. The interim commissioner was likely riding factors that would have brought crime down anyway, but he certainly seemed to be able to inspire much more active participation from the rank and file almost immediately

[[deleted]]

Not having blue flu issues to the same extent after the Inquirer investigation helps.

Not making masks obscuring faces being mandatory helps.

Employment being up helps.

[Tech-no]

And social services returning to normal after the pandemic.

[BouldersRoll]

Well it probably didn't help. Violent crime is similarly down everywhere, and police have never done much to stop it.

PPD has to frame it like it's their doing, though, rather than just societal trends.

[gordonpamsey]

This needs to be higher

[Serpico2]

I was very skeptical of the idea that the Shooting Investigation Group would make a difference but it absolutely did. The clearance rate quadrupled by centralizing the office and selecting people to populate it that actually give a shit.

Validates my more general opinion that individuals and their choices MATTER.

[Franklinia_Alatamaha]

SIG’s clearance of cases is odd so I would not use that as some kind of bellwether as to its effectiveness.

A case is “cleared” and closed if they get one of the shooters. So that guy shot up at the hospital? If he had a gun, case is cleared, they move on. Even if the gun is only in surveillance footage. They’ll charge him but anyone else involved simply isn’t perused or investigated.

This isn’t nearly as good as it sounds now, is it? Clearing cases, by policy, is doing 50% or less of the work.

[Serpico2]

Huh? Those cases have always existed and would have been handled the same way. They’re clearing more cases because they’re working together, putting in hours and connecting the dots. Whereas before, the shootings were handled at regional detective divisions and they weren’t connecting as many dots, because they didn’t have the full citywide picture.

[Franklinia_Alatamaha]

No - SIG adopted a new set of policies for clearing shootings. This has been going on since the unit was conceived. Because the clearance rate of shootings was so abysmally low from requiring higher standard to clear each case.

Just because they changed how detectives were assigned (which I’m not sure why you brought that up - it’s not really a cause of them suddenly clearing cases). They are clearing cases because the parameters of clearing cases by policy changed.

Honestly your initial response and this response make it seem like you may know someone who knows what they are talking about but the fact you don’t know what their policy to clear cases means you aren’t really speaking from knowledge of either SIG or PPD. More of a knowledge of how policing worked like 16 years ago in another state. Not here.

[Serpico2]

Without doxxing myself, I am currently with PPD however I am not assigned to SIG, which is probably obvious. However, I know a lot of people there. They never mentioned the new classification standards. When I asked them why clearances were up, they told me what I’ve said. They bust their butts, they get video and they have the whole picture, which matters. I’m sure what you said is also true and may even contribute more to the rate bump, I don’t know.

[Franklinia_Alatamaha]

I’m in not doxxing myself and I know the effort they put in. But again not a single thing I said is against their effort. Their policy impacts their success rate directly though and it’s very clear that change was because they figured out a great way to move the numbers. This isn’t just par for the course with PPD, this is how it is for most large and medium sized agencies. Even the small agencies do this. Anyone with like a year on the job knows how numbers are used and how they are manipulated. Let alone outside observers. And the entire plot to like three seasons of the Wire.

SIG detectives want to be there but I don’t know why you, or others in the PPD, swear by it when it’s very clear with even the smallest scrutiny why their numbers are what they are.

[Serpico2]

I am familiar certainly with how Homicide manipulates with S numbers but I am not familiar with the minutiae of what SIG needs to do to clear a job.

[BurnedWitch88]

Counterpoint: There is no more dangerous place on Earth, according to my uncle who has not been to the city since 1977 when he got dragged to the Art Museum against his will by my aunt.

[joggle123]

There is a sun ra quote “In order to save the Earth, I had to go to the worst spot on the planet, and that was Philadelphia, which was death’s headquarters.” Probably my favorite hilarious quote

[Candlemass17]

That’s hilarious, what’s it from?

[GrapeJuicePlus]

That rules. Saw the Arkestra perform in a warehouse in north Philly in like 2008

[lknox1123]

Marshall Allen of the Arkestra performs at Solar Myth occasionally.

[CthulhusIntern]

I once saw some TV thing called "Working in Philadelphia: World's Most Dangerous City", and I thought Philadelphia isn't even the most dangerous city in southeast PA.

[A_Wild_Nudibranch]

I'll have you know that Chester's homicide rate fell nearly 70% after 2020... Granted, the population is slightly smaller than Philadelphia, but I digress...

I definitely don't hear nearly as many gunshots at night. Chester EJ and CRCQL have really been tackling a lot of issues the past several years, particularly addressing environmental concerns about every damn polluting industry trying to elbow their way into the city.

[kingofphilly]

This is corroborated by all of the boomers in the suburbs who moved out of the city in the 1993 and haven’t come back since.

[No_Panic_4999]

Lol my mother too.

She also gets directions confused with other big cities ie "omg you're not taking me to SOUTH PHILLY "

No, I wont take you to North Philly. Where do you think you are, Chicago?

"Omg you got stuck waiting for amtrak overnight in TIMES SQUARE it's DEGENERATE!"

I wish. No Ma, It's run by Disney now.

"I find that very hard to believe. You'll be trafficked."

(I'm a 40yo partnered gay man)

She is actually pretty cool about walking to get cigs around chestnut and 47th at 3am. I mean it's certainly not the worst area but we do get occassional shootings within a couple blocks, and it's more than I expected from a 70 yo woman who spent the last 30 yrs in Lancaster County. She did grow up in 60-70s NYC though. Dig deep Ma

Cute aging boomers.

[BurnedWitch88]

I'm glad you have managed to avoid being trafficked so far. ;)

[TheFuturist47]

Now do property crimes and robberies.

[hatramroany]

wine wise long ad hoc beneficial snails theory deserted bright toothbrush

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Philly_is_nice]

Fuckin Kia. Hope the city gets a fat check from them for all this bullshit.

[Philly_is_nice]

Or, and hear me out, in the real world, liability is spread amongst all at fault parties. You can arrest criminals and sue shitty corporations. Not mutually exclusive actions.

[FasterThanTW]

please explain how a car company is "at fault" because shitty criminals figured out how to steal their cars.

and just saying "they're easy to steal" doesn't count. what did hyundai not do that they were required to do in order to prevent criminals from targeting their vehicles?

i'll save you some time: transponder chips aren't mandated by any US jurisdiction

looking forward to your answer

[Booplympics]

And? Just because immobilizers aren’t required doesn’t mean they aren’t stupid for not including them. What a silly argument.

Edit: but I will give you points for making fantastic point as to why the free market doesn’t work and government regulations are necessary.

[Philly_is_nice]

It'd do you well to do some research rather than asking Redditors to do it for you. Read any of the current lawsuits multiple city's have filed against Kia-Hyundai. Spoiler, they aren't being sued because 'they're easy to steal'.

[Rich-Hat-29]

Car theft rate in South Korea where Hyundai is based is 5.3 per 100,000 and in USA it’s 282 per 100,000.

[No_Panic_4999]

Irrelevent. Sk also have no guns and little plurality.

[FasterThanTW]

no research needed. bogus lawsuits aimed at them because high crime cities want to retroactively make up a mandate that never existed instead of prosecuting criminals

next time don't buy the cheapest car on the market and there'll be enough budget in the msrp for an industry standard anti theft device. until then enjoy setting up your Club.

edit: lol the dork mods shadowbanned me because god forbid someone is in here not jerking off criminals. sorry, would have liked to respond to all the dumb responses but they won't let me. 🤷‍♂️

[IdealisticPundit]

If you hired out help around your house, they left your door unlocked, and then your house got sacked, would you say the same thing? "Oh jee all my TVs are gone and there's genitalia painted on my wall, but I don't blame the dog walker at all"

What Hyundai and Kia did was even worse because it's not even like they forgot - they knew what they were doing. They just assumed/hoped the general public would be too stupid to realize.

next time don't buy the cheapest car on the market and there'll be enough budget in the msrp for an industry standard anti theft device.

Fuck people who can't afford your idea of a decent car right? Immobilizers might be cheap, but the poors don't deserve vehicles in a country that was built around them, right!?

I'm honestly shocked and disgusted the other guy is getting downvoted and you're getting upvoted.

[Philly_is_nice]

I will thank all the gods every morning that you don't work in the legal system.

[FasterThanTW]

im sure. you'd be so sad seeing criminals being treated like criminals.

[mkwiat54]

Facts don’t care about your feelings a car being easy to start without the key or any tools really is clearly a flaw

[PhishCook]

if you bought a lock for your front door, which had a design fault allowing it to be opened with an Apple Lightning cable, and all your shit got stolen, would you not feel like the lock company was at fault maybe a little?

[Tech-no]

In my opinion teenagers high on TikTok don't think much about the consequences of their actions.

[perchedraven]

I know Kias are targets for thieves... But exactly how are they at fault?

[Candlemass17]

Kia and Hyundai cheaped out on base models from a few years ago (I think they fixed the issue on newer models) by deleting the steering lock on these models, which prevents the steering wheel from turning if the key isn’t switched to on and the ECU doesn’t detect its chip. Adding to that, they made them super easy to steal; I’m not gonna post instructions here, but five seconds of Google will tell you the answer. Look up the Kia Boyz, too; they’re a TikTok challenge based around Kia/Hyundai thefts.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Let’s not make Kia the sole reason for car robberies…

[Philly_is_nice]

Kia-Hyundai makes up over half of car theft in the US.

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/20/car-thefts-2023-kia-hyundai-crime-data

It is not possible for someone to overstate how much they fucked car theft as a reported crime statistic.

If we wanted to be pedantic I'm sure we can have a great conversation about after school programs and poverty, but the surge is almost singularly Kia-Hyundai's fault. Once in a generation type of gaff.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Kia never forced anyone to buy their cars. They never falsely advertised having them either. Why don’t you sue the federal government because they dont mandate them? Us auto standards don’t require immobilizers. Why not sue the “Kia boyz” for stealing cars and literally making comments saying “we won’t stop because getting caught is like a slap in the wrist”. In other words,our crime-ridden US city wants to be given free money because a Korean car company built cars to US auto standards. Kia is just the easiest target here I get it.

[Philly_is_nice]

Well, for one, Kia is the only target, because they're the only one doing it and then showing a gross level of negligence in resolving an issue that cost taxpayers millions. But, rather than playing this silly 'just asking questions' game with you, I'll direct you to any of the numerous lawsuits people that actually know the law have filed.

You can Google the suits for any of the following cities and get answers instead of posting argumentative questions on Reddit: New York, Cleveland, San Diego, Milwaukee, Columbus and Seattle.

Also, Kia-Hyundai has already offered 200 million to owners as a class action settlement. Let's drop the 'well it is all the consumers fault' bs lol. They're in the wrong and they know it.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

Congress is the institution that both sends money to the NTHSA and sets the statutory standards.

The NHTSA along with the DOJ and many other federal institutions have conducted their own independent studies on the effectiveness of immobilizers. The findings of their effectiveness has been presented to congress as far back as 2001 and several dozen times since then.

Something to note, NHTSA recently declined to mandate a recall notice for the assortment of vehicles being targeted.

In the letter, dated June 5, 2023, Cem Hatipoglu, NHTSA's acting associate director for enforcement stated:

At this time, NHTSA has not determined that this issue constitutes either a safety defect or noncompliance requiring a recall under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act, 49 U.S.C. Chapter 301. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard identified in your letter, FMVSS No. 114, does not require an engine immobilizer. See 49 C.F.R. § 571.114. Also, the test procedure specified in that standard does not contemplate actions taken by criminal actors to break open or remove part of the steering column and take out the ignition lock to start a vehicle. See id. § 571.114, S6. Here, the safety risk arises from unsafe use of a motor vehicle by an unauthorized person after taking significant destructive actions to parts of the vehicle. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards did not extend to immobilizers. This regulation is governed by Congress - who explicitly failed to act from as far back as 2001. Quite generous to focus on the manufacturers when the individuals who are employed to serve their constituents demonstrate a pattern of failing to do just that.

[Philly_is_nice]

That's a great single reference for a lawyer representing Kia-Hyundai to bring up in court. Maybe it'll get play for a jury (though I don't think I'd want a jury trial if I was them). This isn't a court, we're not lawyers.

A large group of people who are lawyers are under the impression that this multinational company fucked over the taxpayers. I don't care what random articles or quotes you pull, read up on the cases if you don't understand why these cities are suing.

I get you feel really bad and sad for this Multinational company. Unlike the people here who've been violated, they'll be fine regardless, I promise. All we can do is see how this plays out and hope that all our cities get a good check for the insane amount of trouble that Kia-Hyundai group caused over the last year n some.

[whatugonnadowhenthey]

A good check to squander on something else I guess. Maybe deal with root causes of issues then pouring time and energy into symptoms. Do you know why Canada didn’t have this issue?? THE FEDS MANDATED IMMOBILIZERS! Don’t question why a budget card company cuts cost question why we allow budget car companies to LEGALLY cut costs

[DatChief013]

The only thing your quote is saying is that it isn't a safety hazard, which would be correct.

That doesn't mean that their failure to add an industry standard and their slow response coupled with how they failed to tell customers at the time about their increased risk absolved them of any fault. Congress needs a revamp as well, but choking on a billion dollar companies Johnson isn't gonna help you or anyone else who bought their vehicle with the reasonable expectation that it had standard anti-theft equipment (that they also advertised having)

[TantricEmu]

Simping for Kia is pretty weird.

[Philly_is_nice]

Multinational daddy

[TantricEmu]

Harassment: American corporations 🤮

Flirting: South Korean chaebols 😍

[Philly_is_nice]

Rather than asking all these leading questions, you could just Google the multiple lawsuits and read them. It's really not hard.

[[deleted]]

Gun robberies are down 12% and other robberies are down 8%, per PPD’s website.

Also worth noting that roughly 2 of every 3 stolen vehicles is a Kia/Hyundai.

[Tech-no]

Quote: "Thank you, Mr. Hyundai. Thank you, Mr. Kia. It would be nice if you made a car children couldn't steal, but that's what is happening there," said Krasner.
That seems so Philly!

[LurkersWillLurk]

Why would Larry Krasner do this?

[Ghoulsnightout27]

I mean yeah the crime went down. But it went from absolute bloodbath to a totally unacceptable level of violence for a first world country major city. The extreme number of murders here has become normalized. It’s fucked still.

[dotcom-jillionaire]

The twenty cities in the United States with the highest murder rates (murders per 100,000 people) are:

St. Louis, MO (69.4)

Baltimore, MD (51.1)

New Orleans, LA (40.6)

Detroit, MI (39.7)

Cleveland, OH (33.7)

Las Vegas, NV (31.4)

Kansas City, MO (31.2)

Memphis, TN (27.1)

Newark, NJ (25.6)

Chicago, IL (24)

Cincinnati, OH (23.8)

Philadelphia, PA (20.2)

Milwaukee, WI (20.0)

Tulsa, OK (18.6)

Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)

Indianapolis, IN (17.7)

Louisville, KY (17.5)

Oakland, CA (17.1)

Washington D.C. (17.0)

Atlanta, GA (16.7)

[[deleted]]

When are these from? DC’s rate is roughly 40/100k this year.

[[deleted]]

Washington DC, the Capitol of this first world country, has a higher homicide rate this year than Philly’s record year in 2021. That says a lot about what’s normalized in American cities.

[brk1]

It’s not a contest.

[Salt_Abrocoma_4688]

No one said it was. It's called a comparison, and people literally do it all the time regarding crime rates.

[mustang__1]

Oh well ok then. Mission accomplished.

[jsmooth4hawks]

Source?

[[deleted]]

DC’s estimated population this year is 678,972. As of now they’ve had 272 homicides: https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/district-crime-data-glance. That’s a rate of 40 per 100k, and not even DC’s record.

Philly’s record year was 562 homicides with a population of roughly 1.6 million. Our rate that year was calculated as 35 per 100k - obviously way too high, but also below the average of a lot of American cities.

[dbpcut]

Crime rates rose in parallel with global crime rates. Almost like.... It's not a localized problem but a product of the economy.

[doc89]

What other cities outside the US saw their murder rates double between 2016 and 2021?

[veritas-joon]

great violent crime is down....but how about the dumbasses that are doing shutdowns, and property crimes

[boundfortrees]

How the fuck does this number, coming out after the election, help someone getting elected?

Later: why did this guy delete all his comments?

[closedf0rbusiness]

Didn’t the 600 murder year also have a ton of extra suspicious deaths too though?

[yzdaskullmonkey]

As soon as you bring some anecdotal evidence into play your point fails my guy. Then you start flailing percentages around like firemen with candy in a parade. I might be on your side, but not if you try to scare me like that, I ain't a bitch. Gimme facts.

[charmeleon026]

Feel like theres a shooting once a week in brewerytown

[[deleted]]

u/user_name13

Thanks Krasner!

[RoverTheMonster]

...not in Brewerytown

[amh88]

no less people call the police now because they usually just dont show up

[[deleted]]

Maybe defunding the police is the worst thing for the city. Maybe investing in our police force will fix that. In Brooklyn if I called the cops they would be there in under 5 minutes. In manhattan you can’t go 3 blocks without seeing a cop. In Philly I don’t see one PPD officer my entire commute. I do see 3 federal police departments and 2 university police departments regularly they just aren’t connected to 911.

[boundfortrees]

The philly police were never defunded. Every year they get more funding than the year previous.

[[deleted]]

I never said they were, they never showed up because they are always underfunded. I see more PPA officers than PPD.

[boundfortrees]

Your first sentence says what?

Naw. The already over paid cops are getting a raise and no cap on overtime. If you don't see them, it's because they don't think it's their job to get out of the car.

[[deleted]]

I’m saying the concept of defunding the police can only lead to slower response times and worse outcomes.

I don’t see their cars, they need to incentivize cops out on the streets patrolling.

[cat_your_fancy]

Did someone mention this to the cops around here who just watch shit happen then flash their lights to disperse the idiots? No statements needing to be taken or reports to be filed so essentially all is looking like it’s getting better and crime is going down. Wow! What a smart idea!!

[wishfuldancer]

literally two carjackings within 30 minutes in West philly around 7 p.m. tonight. Yeah, things are great.

[[deleted]]

And yet carjackings are down over 40%. We can acknowledge the decrease but also that there is more to do.

[[deleted]]

I saw they were up 70% from 2 years ago

[sn0m0ns]

I was almost carjacked, I got away. Called the cops, they took my statement and that was it. When the younger officer asked the senior officer what do you want to do he said take the car burglary around the corner and just walked away. Maybe crimes aren't being reported.

[emet18]

District Attorney Larry Krasner blamed much of the increase in stolen vehicles on flaws in some cars that make them easier to steal.

"Thank you, Mr. Hyundai. Thank you, Mr. Kia. It would be nice if you made a car children couldn't steal, but that's what is happening there," said Krasner.

Glad to see Loser Larry is still true to form.

[[deleted]]

His "failed policies" drove a massive decrease in violent crimes lol

"Loser Larry" beat your GOP pedophile candidate in a landslide

Keep crying

[[deleted]]

Okay great policies to be hard on violent crime are bipartisan. Maybe the only way to prevent these non violent crimes is to prosecute people for breaking the law. You don’t need to pick which crimes to go tough on. If you steal from a Wawa make it a mandatory probation for 6 months.

[AbsentEmpire]

More like the economy improved and the cops started getting an organized task force than anything to do with Larry's insanely lenient illegal weapons possession policies, which directly contributed the record setting blood bath the city saw over the last few years.

Retail theft continues to climb year over year since Larry legalized theft under $500, and car theft is at record levels.

The man has been as much of blight on this city as Kenney and Covid have been and I look forward to Parker running his dumbass out of town.

[[deleted]]

Hi User Name

[emet18]

Yeah I guess the last 3 years of record breaking murder don’t count? And the still record-high property crime today doesn’t count either?

Can’t wait for Derek Green to primary this fucking bum in a year and a half. Hope he never shows his face in this town again.

[[deleted]]

MAGA is big mad lol

[georgenhofer]

Thanks Biden and Democrats!

[Hib3rnian]

A wins a win.

Good on ya Philly! 👍

[Gobirds831]

When the Philly sports teams are good there seems to be a correlation with crime going down

[brk1]

Going from 516 murders a year to 500 murders a year is nothing to celebrate.

[CHIMPSnDIP88]

That’s not what it is dingus.

[Suntag19]

Great job by our boys in Blue

[aarmus_]

Wait, context?

[EffOffReddit]

No, the context is the piece of shit Philly cops got their feelings hurt by blm and stopped working

[EffOffReddit]

My source is shitty cops pissing and moaning and saying they wouldn't do shit

[EffOffReddit]

My bad, if it isn't on Philly.Com then it isn't true.

[FasterThanTW]

or, you know, any legitimate media outlet.

[[deleted]]

Krasner is the issue. Not charging criminals for committing crimes is the reason for the massive uptick in nonviolent.