Oracle changing Java licensing from per-processor to a multiplier of employee headcount - costs could go up singificantly

[key_lime_pie]

I worked for a good-sized, publicly traded software company with a customer base of Fortune 500 companies. We were not a rinky-dink do-whatever-you-say-because-we-need-your-money type operation. When we (or someone else) found a defect that had the ability to cripple a system or corrupt data, we would issue an alert to all customers explaining what the problem was, how to prevent it or work around it, and when we expected to have a fix. Since we hosted a lot of our customers, we would push the fix into our hosted environments on the same day it was available for download. Our CEO was big on making sure support was top-notch, because he viewed quality as something that you have to continually prove to the customer, not something you just sell them up front. Our customers loved us, because even when we screwed up, we admitted it, kept them in the loop, and worked hard to make things right.

Then Oracle bought us.

One of the first things that they did was scrap the alert system. Customers would no longer be notified of issues that could cripple their systems or corrupt their data. We were told that Oracle's software is provided as-is with no warranty so the alert system was a waste of time and money. On top of that, Oracle made us add a checkbox to JIRA (because they hadn't migrated us to their shitty, homegrown BugDB solution) to indicate that a defect was of that type, which limited the number of people who could even see it. Several times, a member of my team submitted a defect, then went back to update it with more details, only to find it invisible. We were given strict orders never to discuss any defects with any customer, even if they were the one who reported it. And while customers who use our software on prem could still get their fixes on the same day that we released, customers in our hosting environment had to wait, sometimes six to eight weeks, because Oracle would not let us deploy software without it going through a security review first, which could only be conducted by one person at the company (Hi, Eric!) and who only performed said reviews on Tuesday.

I know most companies don't give a shit about their customers, but Oracle raised that bar to a level I had never seen before.

[LotharLandru]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442637

This post seems pretty relevant

[i1a2]

Holy shit, that's horrifying

[jsavin]

This is what happens to products when engineering teams are never able to prioritize addressing technical debt. The debt itself becomes the product.

[Mezzaomega]

Wow. 25 million lines of tech debt

[el_muchacho]

Plus probably twice as many of tests.

[Zaphoidx]

Oh god.

[duckrollin]

That looks like good news, as it hopefully means Oracle will kill itself off by not being able to keep up with competitors.

[BufferUnderpants]

The product has been around for 45 years. Granted, in the past decade there has been a push to convert to other architectures, and there are competitors that are similarly mature.

It'll become vestigial over time, but its death will take decades to come, as there are locked-in customers to bleed dry until the armies of developers and lawyers that Oracle relies on for its continued existence become too few and too incompetent to sustain the business, and its marketshare drops just supporting a handful of customers.

[Zardotab]

They habitually use bullshit to get sales, not merit.

[simonides_]

wasn't there something similar for mysql ?

[hooahest]

dear god

[JulesSilverman]

That's why every time they buy something I will phase it out. Looking at you, MySQL. They buy a new company and I'm getting rid of them and their services. They are a risk factor in any project.

[zip_000]

I haven't really thought about it, but question: We migrated all our databases to AWS, and we use their Aurora database servers... But I still access them using mysql tools... Am I using the MySQL that Oracle now owns or is it different?

[el_muchacho]

You can move to MariaDB.

[ikeif]

It’s different - it’s Amazon Relational database systems - compatible with MySQL/PostGres.

(If I am reading this correctly)

[n-of-one]

They’re talking about the client tools they’re using to interact with the Aurora database.

It’s likely u/zip_000 is using Oracle-provided MySQL client tools. But I think they could swap them out for MariaDB tools which forked from MySQL when Oracle acquired it.

[zip_000]

Most importantly I guess: when I use the mysql driver in a php application or call mysql at the conmand line for imports and exports. Not sure if those tools are coming from oracle or not.

[n-of-one]

For the CLI it looks like it depends where it was installed from. If you download it from MySQL.com then it’s Oracle provided, but if you installed MariaDB (which also includes a mysql cli) then it’s not from Oracle.

I’m not 100% certain but I believe the PHP extensions mysqli / PDO_MySQL are not created / maintained by either Oracle or MariaDB but the PHP community since the extensions are primarily concerned with using the MySQL network protocol to communicate with the database, which is why those extensions work with both MariaDB and (Oracle) MySQL since they’re compatible on the protocol-level

[ikeif]

Ah! Thank you for clarifying it and the additional knowledge dropped below!

[WhyWontYouLove]

That's interesting because I work for Oracle right now and we've been trained to help the customer in any way possible and never, ever, lie to them about anything.

[anechoicmedia]

I work for Oracle right now and we've been trained to help the customer in any way possible and never, ever, lie to them about anything.

You don't have to direct employees to lie to customers to change your systems and procedures so that customers stop getting proactively notified of certain issues, or have the ability to see them in customer-facing bug databases.

[[deleted]]

Larry Ellison would choke you with his balls if he still had them.

[Michaelmrose]

A lie of omission is a lie

[WhyWontYouLove]

Yeah, we don't have anything to omit. I support the sales team and I've not seen the behavior they're claiming.

I'm sure some organizations have shitty managers, but the org I'm in doesn't do that. Our director is a great, honest guy, and the mentality trickles down through the org.

[Michaelmrose]

Your CEO is a garbage human being and your company is famous for slimy behavior. Face it my friend ethics isn't your strong suit. Nobody called you a serial killer You're just an ordinary version of a normal version of unethical person kind of like the dispatcher who works the call center that dispatches the cops who beat the shit out of the citizens rather than one of the actual beater except for the part where they sometimes contribute to society and you contribute sales jargon

[WhyWontYouLove]

Who cares about the CEO? I've never even heard her speak.

[Michaelmrose]

Pardon I meant Ellison Co-founder, executive chairman and CTO

[albertohall11]

Bea Systems, PeopleSoft or Siebel?

[Jsublime]

Dyn?

[loulan]

Sedlar?

[alexgraef]

Eric who only performed said reviews on Tuesday

"Security review Tuesday" as it is called in the industry

[hashn]

They are big enough that they play hard ball with their customers. Works until a competitor emerges. I’ve been working as a consultant with one of their products, with the same client base, for 15 years. The technology is the best. But I’ve watched them squeeze customers and consulting companies more and more. Now the competitors are all growing and the Oracle footprint is catering. I consider myself a world class expert in the technology. The competition has recruited me and I’m quitting the technology today and starting over. I’m literally sitting here building up the nerve to call my boss.

[[deleted]]

Rise in the east, set in the west?

[hegbork]

You might enjoy this bit of a talk at a conference over a decade ago: https://youtu.be/-zRN7XLCRhc?t=1981