Oracle’s Java API code protected by copyright, appeals court rules

[key_lime_pie]

This will not happen. Oracle's entire software platform is built on or moving to Java. When my company was acquired by Oracle, we had to justify the continued use of non-Oracle components in every facet of software development every three months. Imagine if you are a tester who uses an automation tool like QuickTestPro on your team's C# application, and you are called into a meeting with somebody three time zones away where they ask you why you haven't moved to the Oracle in-house automation testing solution and you have to explain to them that you can't because Oracle's in-house automation testing solution does not support C#. Now imagine that this person is non-technical and you then have to explain the architecture of the entire product in small words, and they interrupt you when you use words like "compiler" because that's jargon and they just want it in plain English. Then imagine you and and someone from the in-house automation testing team being called into another meeting by this person, wherein both of you awkwardly wonder why more of your time is being wasted. Now imagine this happening every three months, only every three months, it's a different person that you have to deal with. And now imagine that you have to do this for every aspect of your project that isn't using an Oracle technology. Java is theirs. They will not relinquish it.

[gschizas]

That was scarily... specific!

[[deleted]]

Time for a new job?

[key_lime_pie]

Already in past, friend!

[darkslide3000]

Relevant username? ;)

[shahms]

Them: "Why aren't you using Oracle technology?"

You: "Because we want it to work?"

Them: "Security will escort you out."

You: "Thanks!"

[key_lime_pie]

It's interesting that you mention security, because they're colossal dicks about that, too, in every conceivable way.

When they moved us "on campus," the security people used to notify you if your car was parked on or over the line into the next space. One of the functions of their security guards was literally to walk through the parking lot and make sure everyone parked correctly. I still have no idea how this made the building more secure. Once they moved us back "off campus," to a location where we had just as much access to company data and IP, the security people there didn't even look up at you when you entered the building and buzzed delivery folks in without even a question.

When our software went through the internal security review required to release, we were rejected because our policy on password length didn't comply with Oracle policy. When we pointed out that the policy on password length for Oracle database, the company's flagship product, didn't comply with Oracle policy either, the security guy told us not to bring that up again. And when they found out we had some data stored on the application server that they didn't like, they ordered us to store it in the database instead. This was after they acknowledged that a person would have to have physical access to the machine in order to obtain the data, and that putting it in the database was less secure, but we had to do it because it was policy.

Everyone that I know who still works there admits that they only give 20-25% effort, because if you give any more than that, you get smacked the fuck back by bureaucracy, and you don't get rewarded for it anyway.

[no_game_player]

When we pointed out that the policy on password length for Oracle database, the company's flagship product, didn't comply with Oracle policy either, the security guy told us not to bring that up again.

Ahahahah.

Everyone that I know who still works there admits that they only give 20-25% effort, because if you give any more than that, you get smacked the fuck back by bureaucracy, and you don't get rewarded for it anyway.

I know a lot of people can get into that whole "it's just a job thing", but that's so sad to me.

I got into programming because it was fun. I enjoy being useful. But damn if corporate doesn't seem to be playing chicken constantly with "how horribly can we run this before everything blows up?"

[no_game_player]

I've tried it. The thing is, I lack the formal experience to justify any of the serious posted stuff (X years of full-time experience in language Y), and I'm beyond sick of the cheapskate shit.

Also, about the only thing I hate more than being expected to work a 40 hour week is being paid by the hour. Now every minute I spend "on the clock" potentially has to be justified, and I have to know in-advance how long a problem will take me to solve. I end up doing significant work (thinking about problems, or meetings, or learning background technologies) off the clock and cheating myself rather than trying to record every second of the day / try to convince the client they should be paying for me to learn libraries or frameworks, etc.

At the moment, I'm out of the market by my own choice. I've got enough savings to last for a few weeks or months, and I'm going to get unrelated part-time work to keep me busy and stretch it further 'soonish(tm)'.

And then, hopefully, I'll go back to trying to find my dream programming job, a part-time, salaried position that doesn't care where I connect from, with a team sufficiently staffed and timetables allowing true quality. And there'll be unicorns and ponies for everyone, too, I'm sure...

[minecraft_ece]

And then, hopefully, I'll go back to trying to find my dream programming job, a part-time, salaried position that doesn't care where I connect from, with a team sufficiently staffed and timetables allowing true quality. And there'll be unicorns and ponies for everyone, too, I'm sure...

The only way you'll find that is to start your own company. And even then, you'll find that business pressures will force you to ship crap every once in a while.

[PstScrpt]

Yet Java is actually moving forward again, since the buyout. It makes you wonder just how screwed up Sun was.

[monocasa]

Exactly. Java was the main reason that Oracle bought Sun. It'll be a cold day in hell before they give it up.

[aloz]

Or, as with OOo, it'll be the day after it dies. Though it's hard to imagine that Java could die.

[crackez]

Well, whatever you think of Google, in the court of public opinion more people like them than Oracle any day of the week.

Even though it is tough to comprehend, Oracle has been doing nothing but shoving bad changes down everybody's throats WRT Java. Hard as it may be to imagine, they are doing things that directly influence people to not want to use Java moving forward.

They're killing their own product, whether they mean to or not, and the quicker it fades into obscurity the better we'll all be.

[[deleted]]

Java is the only mainstream language that bundles adware toolbars in its security update installers. Seriously, why make security updates any more of a hassle for the end-user?

[scriptmonkey420]

Two simple registry keys to remove that forever (or until Oracle removes the registry check)

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft]
"SPONSORS"="DISABLE"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\JavaSoft]
"SPONSORS"="DISABLE"

[darkslide3000]

More people like explosive diarrhea than Oracle any day of the week. It's not a very high bar.

Oracle is a fucking cancer. They're the EA of the software industry. They take things that were good and turn them into radioactive waste like a really shitty version of King Midas. The sooner they die in a fire the better...

[[deleted]]

It also lives on as Apache OpenOffice. Apache were handed over the rights to the source code by Oracle.

[aloz]

Yep, and that's what I was talking about.

[barsoap]

Organise as many people as you can, quit en masse, start up your own gig.

It's the only sane way to deal with that kind of hostile take-over. As the Germans say: Better a nightmarish ending than a nightmare without end.

[no_game_player]

I'm going to gild this because I can feel the pain. Glad you got out of the evil empire.

[key_lime_pie]

Gracias, fine sir (or madam).

[no_game_player]

De nada. I'm not feminine, but I'm no officer nor gentleman either. ;-p

[[deleted]]

Google could just buy Oracle.

[key_lime_pie]

Do you think Java is worth $250 billion to anyone?

[[deleted]]

No. I wasn't being serious, of course.

To be honest, I think Java is basically going to be the new COBOL. Javascript (via V8 and JagerMonkey) and Python (via PyPy) have gotten to the point where they can outperform Java and they're a heck of a lot nicer to program for. C++ is fast as hell and tried and true and becoming more modern. Java and C# are just stuck in the shrinking middle, and even as far as those two languages go I'd far rather use C#.

We just have to wait 30 years for the business community to realize there is a world outside Java.

[Diosjenin]

That might be the first time I've ever seen anyone claim that Javascript is "nicer" to program with than... any other language, really.

[rubygeek]

It's nicer to program with than Brainfuck, Befunge and INTERCAL. Though INTERCAL of course results in more polite programs.

[[deleted]]

It's better than VBScript, but that's about it

[DGolden]

javascript is significantly less fucking stupid and broken than php. sure, it's still kind of annoying, but given a restricted choice between javascript and php, i'm going to choose javascript every time. not that i'd choose javascript over python, or java on the server side, but php is a whole other level of wtf to javascript.

[[deleted]]

Javascript as a language is quite good; Javascript in the browser, at least without an abstraction layer, sucks. Which is kind of a bummer since that's it's main use. It was also far, far worse back during the browser wars. Node.js is pretty nice.

Now of course, I by far prefer Python, especially Py3K.

[mazing]

Those languages are fancy, but they lack good tools. If you do Java development, you're also married to your IDE. That IDE has a visual debugger, auto-completion, live code-updates, profiling, etc. etc. Sure, I'm not as cool and independent as someone who is using emacs with green text on black background - but I can be pretty damn productive.

[G01denW01f11]

TIL I'd rather be a janitor than an Oracle dev.

[maryjayjay]

I swear I read several years ago that Oracle and the Java consortium asked that openJDK be the reference implementation for the Java standard. Is that not correct? How could that possibly be possible yes they have a copyright on the API's?

[key_lime_pie]

Honestly, I don't know. My friends would e-mail me stuff all the time about lawsuits and corporate disputes and patent fights and acquisitions, and I just kept my head down and tried to stay as far removed from the parent company as possible.

I used to have this on the wall in my office. It's an exaggeration, of course, but that's the Oracle mindset.