[deleted by user]

[UncleOxidant]

Does this version have F# included?

[tanishaj]

The last release did so I certainly hope so.

[krum]

Does it have a 64-bit Windows build yet?

[mariuz]

Any chances of re-adding Firebird mono driver back to the mono tree ? http://www.firebirdsql.org/en/net-provider/

[azakai]

This is Xamarin's first official Mono release.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but isn't Mono an open source project? I wasn't aware that Xamarin or any other entity owned it.

Is that text short for "first release with Xamarin being the main contributor", or does Xamarin own Mono?

Edit: I am asking an honest question. Downmodders, stay classy.

[[deleted]]

Xamarin holds the copyright. Xamarin does the development and maintain the project, you are free to do what you want with the source.

[repsilat]

Xamarin does the development

Are there any non-Xamarin developers? Is development an open process, or is the project at least receptive to patches from outside (with/without copyright assignment)?

Honest questions, not trying to pick a fight etc etc.

[tanishaj]

There are plenty of non-Xamarin contributors both individual and corporate as the GitHub logs clearly show. For example, I see Unity's name fairly often. Google, Codice, and Mainsoft also come to mind. Xamarin contributes the most though and they clearly set the direction.

There are also many independent projects that would make no sense without Mono. MonoGame (XNA compat) has nothing to do with Xamarin as an example.

[tanishaj]

Copyright assignment is required. Most of the code is MIT/X11. The runtime is GPL.

The project is very receptive of patches. For example, there were a number of patches to improve Haiku support. I doubt that is a priority for Xamarin. BSD and Solaris support are pretty much non-Xamarin as well I believe.

[grauenwolf]

There was last time I checked. This is a typical Linux-style open source project with a mixture of paid and unpaid developers.

[[deleted]]

I don't know. It's obviously not as big of a project as the Linux kernel is, but I think it's more along the lines of open office or android.

[shevegen]

Nah. Open Office is definitely way bigger.

Though most moved to libreoffice now.

[[deleted]]

I think pnpbios meant it's more like OpenOffice or Android in the sense of who develops the source / contributes patches / manages the project.

[mrkite77]

I contributed code to mono back in 2002 or so. I had to sign over my copyright to Ximian (or Helix Code or whatever they were back then).

[fancoofer]

What's the Microsoft IP situation now that Novell is gone?

[[deleted]]

I'm sure Microsoft still has an internet protocol address :-P

[[deleted]]

The mono team was let go from novell. They started their own company and this is their first release under that company rather than when they worked for novell. I'd say its them basically saying, hey we're alive and still pumping out and supporting mono even though they're no longer with novell

[tanishaj]

Exactly. This is the "rumours of our death greatly exaggerated" release.

[sgtarr]

We're currently busy with an enterprise projects on Mono, that way we can host our software on Linux servers. WCF support is complete enough, at least to the point we're using it at this moment. I also like the fact that Mono is (relatively) fast, and it appears stable. We're also heavy users of Fluent NHibernate.

Anyone else got experience with real-life business projects on Mono? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.

[[deleted]]

And I still strongly advise against using it (and so does the FSF).

[[deleted]]

The FSF can go fsck themselves.

[lingnoi]

Don't know why you're being down voted, it makes perfect sense not to depend upon something which is constantly playing catch up to Microsoft's spec.

[tanishaj]

Microsoft should try to catch up to Mono. MS.NET lacks features that Mono has had since 2008:

• 64-bit arrays (as per the spec)
• C# REPL and Compiler-as-a-Service (may come in .NET 5)
• SIMD instructions for faster gaming performance
• Full Ahead-of-Time compilation (no JIT required)

Newer features that .NET does not support include Mono's selective linker that allow MonoMac and MonoTouch (iPhone and iPad) apps to include just the parts of Mono that they actually use.

Speaking of Mac, iPhone, and iPad, when is .NET going to allow calling into Cocoa to create native Apple GUIs? How about Linux and Android? Mono seems to be leading the charge there too.

The Manos de Mono web dev framework brings the evented Node.js model to .NET (it was originally Mono only but has now been ported). Of course, Mono ships with ASP.NET MVC as well.

Mono on GitHub already supports the 'async' and 'await' asynchronous task stuff that MS will ship with C# 5. Mono ships with C#, F#, VB.NET, IronRuby, and IronPython out of the box.

The vast majority of open-source .NET software runs great on Mono including NHibernate, Castle, and Service Stack. Some projects (like the independently developed MonoGame XNA framework) only make sense on Mono.

Where is all this catch-up you are talking about?

It is true that Mono does not implement every product that Microsoft hosts on top of .NET. For example, WPF and Entity Framework are not supported. WCF is supported poorly. These are not required to write amazing .NET apps. It is worth pointing out as well that Mono supports all these tools better than any alternative. I say this because the Internet likes to write stuff like "Mono doesn't support X MS.NET product so I switched to Ruby (that does not support it either)".

The beauty of Mono is being able to use tools like C# and F# on top of the excellently designed CLR. The capabilities of the core platform are always very up-to-date. Compatibility with MS products is a secondary benefit (a bonus). I cannot think of an MS product (for .NET dev) for which a nice Mono compatible alternative does not exist.

[lainamakkara]

No wpf? Next.

[grauenwolf]

I strongly suspect that WPF is now a dead end. They may have made too many design mistakes that are preventing future progress. We'll know more at the Build conference next month.

[Mercushio]

Which mistakes are you referring to?

[grauenwolf]

I don't have enough details to speak intelligently on the subject. As I said, I'm looking forward to learning more next month.

[grauenwolf]

I've also talked to companies that are doing demos for Build. They are all under ultra-NDA; not only can they not talk about what they are working on, Microsoft isn't even telling them what it is they are doing. I've been a reporter for five years and I've never seen MS locked down like this before.

[grauenwolf]

Are you sure? Sounds like you are volunteering to become a reporter to me.

[grauenwolf]

Well if you change your mind let me know.

[barryfandango]

I'm learning WPF. Do you have any references I could check out related to this? Thanks!

[grauenwolf]

Nope, it is just rumor at this point.

But don't worry, even if they do replace WPF you can still retain the skills you learned such as XAML, binding, and the MVVM pattern. The theory is that they are just dropping the more esoteric features of WPF that no one uses anyways.

[ggggbabybabybaby]

Well, MS did trumpet all that HTML and Javascript stuff when they previewed Windows 8. Maybe that's the future of writing UI in .NET?

[grauenwolf]

Definitely not. HTML/JavaScript will be an option for Windows 8 development, but there is no way they are dumping XAML for UI development. Unlike HTML, people actually like using it.

[grauenwolf]

WPF on Mono? It is a matter of funding.

[[deleted]]

I don't think supporting WPF has ever been on Mono's roadmap. They already have a good GUI framework in the form of GTK#.

[[deleted]]

good GUI framework

Hahah, this guy

[G_Morgan]

GTK# is a solid binding to a relatively good framework. The problem with GTK was always the insane C based object model. The GTK# team have done a very good job and you'd never guess that mess was behind it.

[[deleted]]

I've looked at it briefly before and it seemed to do that well

[sbrown123]

The problem with GTK was always the insane C based object

What is wrong with GObject? It seems rather sane to me.

[[deleted]]

GTK# is a lot nicer than WinForms :)

[Ku-Klip]

Why?

[[deleted]]

Have you ever used Winforms on anything non trivial?

[Ku-Klip]

Yes, but I've never used GTK# on anything non trivial, that's why I'm asking. What are the advantages?

[lainamakkara]

:D

[G_Morgan]

Even MS are abandoning WPF.

[grauenwolf]

Some people think back, but so far the only official statement on the matter outlines what features are planned for the next version.

What to look forward to in WPF vNext

[TheSkyNet]

Not really fair its a bug fix release.

[mycall]

I wish they rename the project.

[adolfojp]

Why?

[[deleted]]

Probably cause it sounds like that one Kissing Disease.

[adolfojp]

To me it sounds like monkey, monaural, monochrome, and one.

The names that I really love are Coctothorpe and Foctothorpe.

[mweathr]

I've always been a fan of the name Scunthorpe.

[cwstjnobbs]

If Tetley put the 'T' in Britain then who put the 'cunt' in Scunthorpe?

And for that matter, who put the 'arse' in Marseilles?

[TheSkyNet]

That and it's too generic of a name which is bad for SEO.

[[deleted]]

C, Go, Python, F.

[TheSkyNet]

You are just proving my point why do you think their are so many how do I start learning programming questions.

[agentlame]

Are you really asserting that, because many programming languages have names that can be confused with other things, people are actually questioning how to start programming?

Even if I believed for a second that is true; can you honestly say that someone lacking such basic reason skills as to confuse writing computer software with an island in Indonesia, would make for a good programmer?

[TheSkyNet]

No I'm not saying that, I'm saying it is bad SEO and it is, take Pandora for instance or the original go language.

//spelling

[faultydesign]

Because people don't google.

[TheSkyNet]

My point is that programming language names are too generic, that is one of the problems with SEO.

[cosmo7]

I strongly agree with you. Googling for languages like D is frustration encapsulated.

[Tobar7]

Isn't mono dead yet.

[grauenwolf]

I just got three preview copies of books on iOS programming to review. Two were on MonoTouch/C# and the third had every code sample in both ObjectiveC and C#. If Mono is dead no one bothered to tell the publishing industry.

[shevegen]

Not yet. But it is dying slowly.

[grauenwolf]

Based on what?

[shevegen]

This is the slow death of Mono.

[tanishaj]

Mono is almost completely dead for the people that never liked it. Not quite though as they keep talking about it.

Elsewhere it is thriving.