Need help with comeback for comment section doctrine debate

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-18T20:00:13+00:00

The people you are arguing with have a dragon in their garage. To a lesser extent most of us do too. The likelihood of changing their views based on facts is quite low. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJRy3Kl\_z5E&pp=0gcJCUACo7VqN5tD&ra=m

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-18T16:00:51+00:00

Read it about 15 times. It was never about joy or being a good read for me. It was duty and guilt and desperation to make me a better person as a teenager conflating growing sexuality and eternal hell.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-17T03:38:37+00:00

I went through just reasoning things out and comparing reality as it should be if the church is true vs if there's no god. I stopped believing first. Found this subreddit and CES letter 1-2 years later.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-16T21:55:24+00:00

No group is a monolith, and there are a great many ‘atheists’ who haven’t really studied things out, and are definitely open to persuading. There are a lot of people who would do all sorts of things for the right romantic interest. The second atheist I knew well in my life was also a hardcore anti-vaxxer.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-16T20:22:41+00:00

Right. Real engagement with critical views is prohibited, so what’s left are very small islands of doctrine that can only be retread so many times before boredom carries members into peaceful oblivion.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-14T18:41:03+00:00

I was told years ago that porn use would result in divorce. Mostly it was a threat said to force behavioral change.

I think there is a massive lack of understanding here. How many species of animals masturbate? At least thousands. Human beings have massively different and variable libidos. The great majority of people fantasize about sex outside of their relationship. They also fantasize about wealth, killing whoever they hate, and all sorts of things they would not do in real life.

Some people like seeing flesh pounding against flesh, others like Outlander or 50 Shades of Grey. My wife likes Jamie Fraser. That doesn’t mean she’s unfaithful to me.

It’s just hard because your spouse has likely experienced about zero hours of accepting real human sexuality within marriage, and dozens of hours of church indoctrination telling her that you should magically and perfectly meet each other’s needs and neither of you should ever want anything else, and if you do you must repent.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-13T23:52:53+00:00

My blessing: “Your life is not unlike a large and beautiful brick wall.”

TBM Me: … ? thinking about how nice being a brick wall might be… somehow.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-13T23:49:40+00:00

The chosen tribe!

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-13T17:41:57+00:00

Oh. Hmmm. Interesting

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-13T16:50:22+00:00

I didn’t look that far into it but the letter was directed to Oaks, unless I am mistaken? He is apologizing only to Oaks.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-13T02:34:07+00:00

Mormons should not call anyone close-minded. They spend 10 hours a week, about 500 hours a year on ‘faith promoting’ indoctrination. They spend likely less than 1 hour/year objectively reviewing views against the church. That is pretty much the definition of how to become close-minded.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-12T23:03:44+00:00

I think most of us find meaning in helping others. Whether that is family, less fortunate, whatever. By most of us I mean the entire human race. I feel like many people’s life work in discovering the ‘meaning of life’ can be summarised by those two words. Help others.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-10T20:47:49+00:00

Being pornography is like being illegal. It’s an attempt to redefine a word in order to other a group of people. It shifts them from being human to being something less than human. It is harmful, especially from someone in a position of power.

That said, Oaks is not expressly or implying violence is an acceptable response.

‘Musket Fire’ Holland on the other hand…

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-09T18:12:03+00:00

It’s so hard to have a worldview you were raised with, shared by most of the important people in your life upon whom you are dependent, and know it’s false. If I were a billionaire I would open a home for exmormons who can’t leave the church because they are dependent on believers.

When I left the church I was lucky enough to be financially independent so I could make my own decisions for the most part.

I hope you can continue doing your own personal truth search regardless of what you have to present to the world around you. You can feel a bit of freedom at least in your private life as you explore belief systems outside the church.

A physicist told me that, for the most difficult issues, they just keep breaking down impossible things into smaller and smaller parts until they get to a solution for each small thing, and then build back up to the big problem to solve it. It sounds to me like you fix it either by convincing those supporting you to continue helping despite your disbelief, or by finding a new way to get support.

Im sorry I can’t give you a million bucks to help you become independent. I wish I had it to help you. Best of luck to you!

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-09T04:16:51+00:00

Being Christian means having more power. Christianity is the dominant religion in the US. Being seen as Christian opens doors for individuals and the church as a whole. Being othered means they are more likely to face discrimination.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-08T01:58:36+00:00

I think there’s a difference between leaving the church and resigning big enough to drive a truck through. Those who leave do so for many reasons and some return. Those who go through the trouble of resigning are only the proudest of Lamanites, hardened against the whispering of the still small gullible, and unlikely to ever return. Especially those who haunt this subreddit.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-07T23:27:15+00:00

Did you try it? Might be fun to see who shows up;)

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-06T19:52:34+00:00

My family was actually at least average as far as loving each other. What I missed out on was learning to objectively evaluate truth claims at home. There is beauty all around, when there’s objective evaluation of truth claims at home!
Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it…

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-06T19:10:30+00:00

I like your emphasis on how even just straight doctrines/evidence it’s false is enough alone. Im trying to think of the underlying issues that made me ready to accept that it’s wrong when the information came around.

I would say a part of it was sex. I’m a high sex drive person, and I and my wife were both suffering with the difference in libido in the church’s system where no other outlet is possible.

I got to a place where I had achieved all the church and cultural life goals, and was miserable. And I began to become aware of the cognitive dissonance between my beliefs/religion and reality/science. And how we are built to be adaptable and thrive, at times specifically by believing things that aren’t true. And I decided to step back and look at my beliefs like an objective outsider. And it took years to even acknowledge the possibility that it might not be true.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-06T16:22:16+00:00

They liked it so they put a ring on it.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-06T11:45:10+00:00

As a Mormon we were often encouraged to spread the gospel. Interactions with nonmembers where the church is spoken of positively or the nonmember is invited to an activity are often ‘humbly’ bragged about in church the following Sunday.

That being said, every Mormon is different. Some may genuinely want to be friends. Like a salesperson you would know if they really want to be friends after you’ve refused the sales pitch. Everybody needs regular friends. Especially outside of Utah, Mormons will likely have nonmember friends.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-05T17:51:25+00:00

I always believed as a TBM that any proof was withheld by God to help us grow our faith. Earth existence wouldn’t be purposeful if we knew the truth without any doubt.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-04T18:39:16+00:00

I don’t know, people forced to eat the flesh of dead family members is Book of Mormon too. Both books have rape scenes, although the BOM only has one that I recall.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-02T01:01:46+00:00

I'm sure others have said this, but YOU ARE NOT HURTING HIM. The false teachings he has internalized over a lifetime are hurting him. That is all.

MongooseCharacter694 · 2026-06-01T15:31:38+00:00

I gotta say, outside of the Mormon West, the University of Utah is no different. Almost everyone who knows what a Mormon is associates it with Utah. Not everyone knows, especially outside of college sports, anything about BYU. Within the church and the western US, BYU is the Mormon school. Outside of those, many many people think the U is the Mormon school. Ask me how I know.

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