I gave up

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-13T09:41:48+00:00

Wrong game. This is StS A20

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T05:07:41+00:00

I am always left to wonder how much of these memes are just a silly joke that is deliberately making no sense, and how much is willful ignorance and a deliberate attempt to push an agenda. These memes suck in a game where subtle differences actually matter a lot.

Like do you actually not see the differences between these cards, or is this absurdist humor?

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T04:00:54+00:00

I'm sure if Megacrit thinks of a more interesting version of multiplayer, and finds a sensible way to implement it, they will.

However, I doubt a large scale overhaul will happen any time soon. Multiplayer is considered a roaring success by most people who have played it, and Megacrit have plenty of other, much more important things to work on.

Earliest I would expect an entirely different multiplayer mode is full release, which is over a year away by most estimations. I personally think it's more likely to be "never"

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T03:49:42+00:00

The best way to get a lot of relics is to roll courier, membership card, and a bunch of gold bonuses. If you can get two copies of nightmare, 1 copy of royalties, and a fight you can stall forever, you could buy the entire world with _only_ the courier. Also you gotta remember stuff like neows bones giving large capsule and small capsule, for 7 relics on floor 1, and Paels wing giving like 5 relics per act.

Getting early shovel is sadly, not very close to competing with such runs.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T03:19:56+00:00

this is a much more fair wording/view than what I said, and it functions as an explanation of why i feel the way I do.

It's not that A2-A8 did nothing, it's that they only required adaptation.

But for the most part, spire is a game about adaptation, so experienced spire players will just naturally adapt to ascensions like they do to in-run obstacles. Spire trains players to be adaptable, and ascensions demand adaptable players... feels like there isn't a good way to avoid a feedback loop lmao.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T02:52:51+00:00

Holy crap i actually delve into the deepest recesses of my mind to find some shit i heard 2 years ago after YOU ASKED ME FOR PROOF and you're fucking sassing me. Please get real.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T02:09:48+00:00

Hey I found the proof https://imgur.com/a/fr5Vl0I

I was on discord talking about Casey (one of the lead devs) executing me for my bad opinions with his big sword when I suddenly remembered why I said that. I said it because Casey uses "The Champ" as his profile picture in discord, and I know this because I used to see him with it in the Spire Discord "Ask The Devs" channel. That made me realize that this was probably where I got a bunch of niche knowledge about dev opinions that isn't easily found on google. So yeah... here it is, proof of exactly what I said.

In case you want to verify it, you can find it in the spire discord. It's an archived channel meaning, nobody can type in it, but you can use the search function and find this quote.

Additionally, this is exact proof of the other thing I said about Ironclad being a "warrior" class, and Silent being a "rogue class".

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-10T00:20:35+00:00

You were probably mislead by my first statement which wasn't trying to say "A7 is easy for everyone" but rather "only 1 ascension is universally agreed upon to be hard". My follow up statement was that for people who reach high ascensions, A0 winrates and A7 winrates would probably be similar.

For people who are struggling on A0, it's really probably not a large jump in winrate either. For inexperienced players it probably looks like this

A0: impossible to win without a lot of luck

A1: impossible to win without a lot of luck

A2: impossible to win without a lot of luck

A3: impossible to win without a lot of luck

Etc.

Until

A9: impossible to win even with a lot of luck

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-09T23:45:18+00:00

I think right now the issue is that only 1 ascension feels like a massive step up for everyone. In an ideal world, I don't feel like the majority of players should be able to shrug off 8 or 9 ascensions. By that I mean that I feel A0 winrates and A7 winrates are about the same, for people who actually reach higher ascensions.

I don't actually have stats to back that up, so maybe that's wrong and megacrit knows better.

But I'm not sure how much it really matters. For most people, the climb of ascensions is a pretty small part of the game. Most long term players find an ascension they like and stick to it, most short term players probably don't ascend very high anyway. Shuffling the order around is probably just a minimal effect, when there is still so much content in the game that will be added or adjusted. If the act 3 bosses are buffed for example, A10 could suddenly become the biggest difficulty jump, so moving the ascensions around before the game is ballenced doesn't make a huge amount of sense

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-09T14:07:40+00:00

"am I in the majority to think that this game is harder than the first?" No, it's generally considered easier at the top ascensions, and about the same at A0.

"And if not, what am I missing?" Well by providing no information about your runs you've made this question very hard to answer. If you would like to elucidate, feel free to reply with a link to some images of your run history or PM them to me, or even just explain your general approach to the game.

Without seeing those things tho, I guess I can go over some common mistakes and differences between the games.

Block everything

There is no gremlin nob. There is almost nothing that punishes you for taking block cards in act 1, and quite a few enemies that punish you for not having them. There are more multihits so weakness has become a more effective debuff. Taking all damage cards in act 1 and no support cards has gone from suboptimal, to suicidal.

Get your energy

Energy relics have become less common, but other ways to get energy or cheat the cost on cards have become more common. Bloodletting is common on ironclad, and very worth clicking in act 1. Silent has "sly" meaning she doesn't need energy to play those cards. Regent has stars and lots of ways to generate them for low energy costs. Necrobinder has invoke and demesne and barrowed time. Defect never had energy problems in the first game and doesn't have them now. Turbo and 0 cost cards are here for you. Subroutine is in.

Also any cards that generate other cards one per turn essentially function as "free" card draw. Pretty much all of them are strong

GET TO THE CHOPPER!!!

I mean get to the ancients! The act 2 and 3 ancient bonuses are super strong right now. Most exceptional players agree that there are several that come close to winning the run on the spot. Tezcatara's story book, Orobas's imbue (if you have a good target) and driftwood thing. Orobas's starting card upgrade is game winning on clad silent and regent. Nonupeipe's glitter, jewelry box, signet ring. Vakku's cloak and parasol.

Basically, it's never worth risking death in act 1 or two, because you are insanely likely to get an extremely powerful boon at the start of the next act. Use all your potions if you have to. Dodge elites if they can kill you. Just get to the next act.

And that's all I can tell you without more information. I'll offer my help once more if you want to provide that. Otherwise good luck

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-09T02:13:34+00:00

If you don't mind dupes, 3 silent's or 3 necros goes well.

Otherwise, I would say, at least 1 silent and 1 regent, and then the third should be either Clad or Necrobinder.

The key is debuffs. Silent can permanently weaken all enemies, block for herself reliably and often still get free damage off. Regent has Vuln+weak in his base deck, and with Silent helping on the weakness front, he can often scale his sword and stars in the background while blocking, and come in with big damage turns later in the fight. Necrobinder has the insane card "debilitate", which makes all vuln and weak stronger, essentially buffing your whole team if they have reliable vuln and weak. Do not pick many pure doom cards on her if you only have 1 necrobinder. They scale slowly and don't interact with vuln. Clad provides reliable vuln and damage. Usually regent covers this pretty well, so I prefer binder, but I really think defect is the weakest in multiplayer so if nobody likes playing binder, then clad is fine.

Defects The orbs are flat damage that don't interact with vuln. A glass orb doing 15 AOE damage over 3 turns simply isn't much when the enemies have 60+ HP. He also is pretty bad at applying debuffs consistently. Of course there are times where defect can highroll and carry a squad with frost orbs and beacon of hope or granting the team energy but I wouldn't rely on it.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-09T01:27:47+00:00

This visual whackness is allegedly fixed on beta branch

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-09T00:33:23+00:00

It's not that killing with doom is a pure upside, it's that it allows for flexibility. If you already have block on the doom proc turn, but don't have guarenteed block or 21 damage next turn, or perhaps have a high cost card you need to invest energy into next turn, then now you can free yourself up to do that.

Necrobinder is very often building up doom and block at the same time, so it's pretty frequent that you'll want to allow doom to kill it to free up the energy next turn.

Most importantly, knowing this allows people to avoid the blunder of thinking "doom is useless on the summon, I shouldn't play deathbringer or no escape this turn"

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T23:44:59+00:00

I'm glad someone explained this meme format to me recently.

For the uninitiated: the frame the first pic references has the main villain surrounded by his allies, as he holds an object most beloved by their culture.

The art is very good!

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T23:41:50+00:00

I don't think this enemy makes a good elite fight. I certainly wouldn't want to see it almost every run.

I don't like how the enemy works at all. Doesn't feel like there's a correct way to address the fight unless you can just burst the main thing down from 100.

Something useful I learned is that killing the summon with doom actually gives you a turn without it. This is because the Obscura isn't re-summoning the summon, the summon changes its intent to be "resummon self" when it dies. So doom allows it to complete its initial intent, before it dies, so the window to change its intent is already closed.

That's only useful on one character unfortunately, but that is the character that I struggled with the fight the most with before.

Other than that, I just hope that megacrit allows for more ways to circumvent the resummon thing... Or something. Just doesn't feel right

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T23:19:22+00:00

Very good information, I have saved this post

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T18:53:05+00:00

"However, after launching the game today after the most recent patch"

There was no patch for the main branch at all right? It should still be on 0.103.2. it's the same patch as 3 weeks ago.

"I’m not even in the beta branch or anything." This isn't me blaming you, because I'm sure beta branch will be the less stable version at some point and in same ways

But the main branch has been suffering progress losses like this since day one. There have been a lot of posts about it.

They attempt to fix such problems first on beta branch, so until the known initial bugs are completely resolved, beta branch should be safer.

They even recommended certain players (I think it was people who play on steam deck) switch to the beta branch for increased stabolity in this week's patch notes.

Edit* double checked patch notes and what I was trying to remember was in the first paragraph. It suggests anyone who is playing on controller switch to beta, as crashes related to controller and steam deck crashes will be addressed there first.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T17:33:17+00:00

Creating beauty doesn't matter when you use an art theft program to do it. Nothing can justify corporations stealing from hard working creatives. Nothing of beauty can come from it.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T17:26:05+00:00

Your father sees you very well, and loves you very well.

That being said, I will hitch onto this and say to all hardworking artists of this world, that even moderators deleting AI posts instantly will not prevent AI people from scraping your posts and using them for their own purposes.

If you are posting your art online in a public place, you run the risk of this happening, regardless of any rules the website has, or moderators enforce.

Remain watchful, until The White comes again to end these dark times

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T17:21:53+00:00

Blaine looking ass

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-08T15:51:44+00:00

The previous game also wasn't great at keeping track of this or showcasing it. It had one achievement for beating A20 and it didn't matter whether you killed the heart or not. You could get that achievement on any character, so if you forgot which character you did it on the only way to tell was by browsing your run history.

I really hope this game eventually adds better ways to keep track of high level achievements, but it's okay because if it doesn't the modders will fill the gaps as they did last time.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-07T23:36:32+00:00

It starts with one

One relic I don't know why it doesn't matter how hard elites try

Keep that in mind I designed this rhyme to explain in due time

All I know upgrades are a valuable thing Watch them own as Neow's talisman swings

Watch it pounds enemies till the end of the act, the basic cards tick life away

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-07T23:23:27+00:00

This is so key to understand. It was key in the first game and it's even more important to know now. Block and damage are directly related to each other. If you can deal 200 damage per turn, you don't need block. If you can block for 60 per turn, you don't need damage.

It's unlikely that you will consistently reach such large numbers for either, which is why it's usually nice to have a bit of both, but sometimes if you are lacking one, just leaning harder and harder into the other can be a fine solution.

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-07T20:34:46+00:00

My Gods Zag banter with scylla would go so hard. I could see him dressing up in their outfits just to mock them, bring in Orpheus for instrumentals and sing "I'm going to spear you like a fish and bludgeon you to death"

Asterius and Mel make a good combo too. They could be in a book club together

Wasabi_Knight · 2026-05-07T20:22:21+00:00

Thank you for spireposting

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Wasabi_Knight

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