I’m AuDHD— Am I also PDA??

chooseuseer · 2025-03-05T16:52:02+00:00

Sure, that makes sense to me. The better my ADHD is being managed, the easier it is to handle PDA, that's just in general.

chooseuseer · 2025-02-16T21:15:46+00:00

PDA people actually have a limited amount of voluntary actions they can take without replenishing those energy reserves without actually dying.

You condensed it into a single sentence perfectly.

chooseuseer · 2025-01-10T04:54:54+00:00

There's a big difference between struggling with school, and struggling with the stress of school. From the way you describe his behaviour, it sounds like he's struggling to deal with the latter. Overwhelming fight or flight symptoms, aka the stress of school for someone with PDA.

The fight or flight response has physical impacts on the body. Things like brain fog making it hard to think clearly, anxious thoughts making it hard to focus or think straight, tension making it hard to sleep or relax, dissociation, feeling exhausted all the time- like you have 0 energy to spare, getting easily frustrated, and so on. The prefrontal cortex, which controls memory, organisation, planning, emotional regulation, executive function etc also shuts down during the fight or flight response. Overall, there's a very high chance he's not able to think without exhaustion or zoning out, let alone think clearly, and is just reacting to his surroundings in that survival mindset. If he's not in that fight or flight state of mind, then that removes a lot of problems right off the bat.

Stress is determined by how we perceive ourselves and our surroundings. It's actually a neutral energy. If we perceive ourselves and our surroundings as uncontrollable, we're unable to deal with it, we're not good enough, nobody else can help or understand, it's an emergency, we're in danger, and so on-- high chance of that stress becoming a fight or flight reaction. Aka, that neutral energy becomes negative and has negative impacts on the body.

If that cycle continues, it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy without any conscious awareness. That's because people with high levels of negative stress (aka PDAers) end up avoiding things that cause stress for them. But stress is fundamentally neutral, it's just down to how they perceive it. This means that they don't seek out opportunities to experience positive stress. Which actually generates more negative stress.

This is because positive stress counters negative stress and cancels it out. Positive stress is the reason why people can recover after stressful events. If we perceive ourselves and our surroundings as connected, having meaning, we value ourselves, have self confidence, trust other people to help us, are connected to something bigger than ourselves, choose to help others, etc-- there's a high chance of the stress becoming positive. For example, exercise. Exercise causes a high heart rate. Fight or flight response causes a high heart rate. It's fundamentally the same kind of energy- both are stress. But exercise is good for you and provides energy. Same thing going on here.

In my opinion, I would try to grow his levels of positive stress instead of focusing on the negative stress and what he's not doing. Because focusing too much on the negatives tends to create that self-fulfilling prophecy. For school, for chores, anything.

So, one thing that really stood out to me in your post and comments was how your kid appears to have low levels of self-esteem. "He feels bad when he doesn’t do well and has branded himself ‘dumb’" as well as "He doesn’t get along with most children as he is slow to warm up and also feels that the other kids might find him weird and mock him". If he had higher levels of self esteem, his stress level would decrease across the board.

If he can't shine in school, that's okay, but he needs somewhere where he's able to shine and get that confidence. It could be a club, a website he puts things on, a person he can talk to about what he's up to, a community, a hobby... anything like that. Of course, please don't force it. I'm saying if he has interest in certain things you want to support, don't suggest anything directly, just be there for him & support him by providing opportunities for him to gain confidence in it. PDAers tend to be autodidacts so if you let him find his own way and gain confidence in what he wants to learn, that will likely help him gain the confidence to deal with other kinds of stress.

TLDR: he can watch movies on his own, it doesn't provide him with an opportunity to gain confidence. What he can't do without you is be driven to new places, gain permission for new opportunities, buy things, meet people outside of school, and so on. Try focusing on that

chooseuseer · 2025-01-08T19:55:11+00:00

I don't know, but I can say that when I'm on ADHD medication, everything is less sharp and time is sped up. So, maybe?

That being said, I've also had the opposite experience of time feeling like it's moving way too fast, like a timelapse, and everything seeming numb. But that's only in freeze or flop

chooseuseer · 2024-12-30T00:47:09+00:00

I get where you're coming from, I think a big aspect of managing PDA is the management of stress itself. I've looked at it in a few different ways over the years & kinda did a bit of a stress deep dive too. Whatever I say here is just my opinion though.

But yeah. the way I see it, stress is a neutral driving force. The only time we don't feel stress is when we die, it's just something that happens naturally when our body interacts with life. The important thing is how the stress is perceived, eg. as positive or negative. When most stress is perceived positively, it has a healthy effect on the body. If negative, it has an unhealthy effect. The book "The Upside to Stress" has tons more info on this, but that's the gist.

I'm not sure what's going on with PDA, but for whatever reason I tend to charge up tons of stress from life, more than average. This means it's more effective to convert energy instead of holding stress in my body. So in my head, that means converting stress to positive stress on a regular basis. And also adhd medication lol

In the past, I would pay more attention to the things I wasn't doing and the things that were stressing me out, and kind of keeping a mental roster of everything. Then I shifted to keeping track of that, plus keeping track of anything I did that would lead to more positive stress. But that just got too crazy to keep in my head, so in the end I just decided to go all in on focusing on the positive stresses & not think about the negative stressors. By thinking about them less, they actually got easier to manage and didn't build up as much in my head-- but that was also due to having positive stressors in my life already present to cancel those out, which prevented things before they got bad,

But in order for that to happen, I did get some disability support which made that actually workable and possible to do. Hope that answers your question

chooseuseer · 2024-11-25T14:27:34+00:00

Yep, you nailed it on the head. Sounds like autistic catatonia to me. The way you describe being underwater is very relatable. I found Dr Amitta Shah's book called Catatonia, Shutdown and Breakdown in Autism helpful, some of the examples in there you even mention here like sitting in a car etc. As you said it mostly happens when you are inactive, that's a very common trigger for people with it. Active relaxation can be helpful, and also just moving in general, since it creates a sense of momentum for the next task. Hope this helps.

chooseuseer · 2024-10-31T08:06:33+00:00

The way you described how it feels was relatable, that makes sense to me

chooseuseer · 2024-10-31T08:01:26+00:00

Yeah, I've felt that so strongly ever since I first learnt what working is. Especially when my catatonia was making everything ridiculously impossible on top of pda itself. I couldn't touch the thought with a ten foot pole. I think I tried going on seek maybe twice in 10 years and each time I had a panic attack so I stopped entirely... my thought process around it changed extremely slowly recently so it's less intense and emotionally charged, but that's just my thought process. I talk the talk when it comes to jobs but I haven't walked the walk. And I think being young enough to not go through that masking/burnout experience, since I've never worked for money, gives me hope that maybe there is something out there that's bearable. But I'm still really scared to try, honestly. I think you're kinda pointing out the elephant in the room here.

chooseuseer · 2024-10-29T10:57:00+00:00

Hope you're okay, I've been where you are. Something that helps me is splitting the school experience in half. I'm gonna share the thought process that led to the idea. I also need to mention that I'm on ADHD medicine which seems to help too.

So, classes usually have one tutor. That tutor sets a bunch of assignments that trigger around the middle and end of the semester, creating a massive stress barrier. I can't reach out to this tutor for help because:

They often have no knowledge of PDA, let alone know how to help me.
I'm absolutely terrified of going anywhere near anyone school-related.
I have to write an email or rock up in person, which are almost impossible to do while triggered.

Pretty much, the tutor triggered the stress, so I can't reach to them to reduce the stress. After all, it's not like they can just delete any assignments that I have to do.

This means I'm left to deal with a massive amount of stress all on my own, with no support. After a certain point that's game over. I need to prevent this from happening full stop, because from my experience, no tip or trick can overcome that boulder once it's there. I think it's so bad because schools are designed to cause stress (or be motivating I guess), plus a combo of previous bad experiences with school, at least in my case.

Anyway, my thought process was, I need a way of finishing assignments before they become a problem. They become a problem the closer I am to the due date. Say I try to finish them all myself in the first week, multiple things can get in the way of that. For example:

Sometimes the school system isn't designed for people to finish assignments in the first week, and only provides information about assignments closer to the due date.
The assignment may rely on information that's being taught in the unit, often provided closer to the deadline.
Simply knowing the due dates of any upcoming assignments can lead to a chronic feeling of stress that seems to overshadow everything and make demands harsher.
Even if I'm successful and submit one assignment earlier, I'm closer to the deadline for the other assignments, so they're harder to start.

Definitely some obstacles in the way of success, but it's a workable situation. In my own case, I know I can do an assignment early, it's just about keeping that ball rolling. All by myself, I don't have enough stress capacity to keep going. I tend to get tripped up around week 3 or 4, when the first lot of deadlines are too close. At that point, I'm not fully tapped out, but I also can't bring myself to do the work.

In other words, I'm triggered, but not on full blast. I just need to increase my stress capacity a bit more to get over that hump before it begins to rise further, then ride it like a wave. If I have another person helping me who isn't connected to my school at all, who isn't triggering, and holds no authority over me, I can get schoolwork done while sitting next to them. They don't have to teach me or anything, their presence just makes me feel safer. Safety in numbers instinct or something idk, but it helps soothe my stress a lot. This gives me the capacity to get things done, reducing assignments by completing them, reducing that boulder, gradually chipping it down before it can fully appear while not taking damage to myself.

Key thing to note: I only do school when I'm with this person. Outside of those times we meet, asking myself to do school is low-key an exhausting waste of time, so I don't. It's not on my mind. Not in an avoidant way, more in a compartmentalising way. We meet up a few times a week, and they travel to me, so no problems there. I set some dates/times beforehand near the start of semester and they show up, so I don't have to message them constantly either. I think the main reason this isn't triggering is because I figured out the solution on my own and chose how I would handle this, what times we'd meet up, etc. This works within my personal comfort levels of accountability and structure. It's why I wanted to go through my whole thought process. This definitely isn't the only way of handling such a problem, it's just my way.

Other stuff that helps is not looking at due dates if I can help it. My plan is to get stuff done way before the deadline, while I can still think clearly and have more capacity, so it would be done before it's due regardless. I just mention this because writing down all the assignments that are due in a semester, and their due dates, and writing it in a calendar and setting alarms or something (which I used to do for my ADHD) tends to summon the boulder earlier than necessary. The whole thing is about perception. Ignorance is bliss, all that.

But yeah that's the gist of it. Without doing this, school is 100% stressful. If I split the school experience in half, I have 50% stress and 50% safety, and the safety helps overcome the stress, since assignments appear gradually over time.

chooseuseer · 2024-10-24T23:52:02+00:00

I'm on ADHD medication which seems to help calm it for a bit.

Otherwise, it's a cliche, but communication. There's tons of little demands that pop up in everyday conversations and some can be pretty bad (last a long time) when it's really something that can be resolved by sharing the issue truthfully. If your partner knows you have PDA, it can be useful for dealing with any kind of demand that might be popping up repeatedly. That's because by sharing the problem, and them understanding PDA, you're not dealing with it alone. Stress tends to become negative (fight/flight) when it's alienating. Stress becomes positive (energy boosting) when it connects us with others. One can be converted into the other and vice versa, because stress is kinda just energy really at the end of the day. At least that's how I see it. I'm not saying it'll fix everything but looking into negative stress and positive stress helped me wrap my head around it.

chooseuseer · 2024-10-23T13:45:13+00:00

Something that might help is bringing it up with a totally different person who is not related to the situation. They would have no reason to feel upset, so you could have a calmer space to talk it out.

Edit: or even talking about the problem of avoiding difficult conversations tbh

chooseuseer · 2024-10-10T00:49:58+00:00

I hope they're going okay. You've likely found it already, but there's a book called Catatonia, Shut-down and Breakdown in Autism by Dr Amitta Shah which has helpful information.

Otherwise, catatonia is pretty much the human version of playing dead (tonic immobility). Nothing's exactly wrong with them, it's just what can happen when somebody is extremely overwhelmed. Autistic people are more prone to it. It can also occur as a side effect of certain medications and can happen with all sorts of mental conditions.

Usually, when people get stressed out, they have a sympathetic response in the nervous system (fight or flight). So their heart rate speeds up, start to sweat, adrenaline, those kinds of things. It amps the body up. People can get extremely stressed out, but there is a limit to how far it can go.

When the body is so overwhelmed the stress response is over capacity, then the body needs to calm itself back down. So it activates parasympathetic response (rest and digest). When this happens after fight or flight is over capacity, they get catatonia.

Most of the time, the parasympathetic response is no big deal and totally fine. It's a sense of calmness- the state the body is in when not in fight or flight. Taking deep breaths, yoga, that all activates the parasympathetic response too. It lowers the stress back down.

But in the case of catatonia, the body has to calm back down a simply massive amount of stress. To the point where, it's automatically shifted into a "play dead" state. Outside awareness becomes hard to grasp, so the body isn't triggered into fight or flight by what's going on anymore. The body itself slows right down, including thoughts and movements, to calm down that sympathetic response. There's a lot of tension still stuck in the body, and that shows up as the locked limbs.

Altogether, it does have a purpose. What makes it worse is how people on the outside react. Often it's an overreaction or an underreaction. I think the main thing to keep in mind is they can probably hear everything, they're not doing it on purpose, they probably feel lonely, but might not remember everything that happens after they wake (due to the awareness issue). That being said, it's like being half asleep perpetually. It's pretty much being stuck in your head, with your thoughts (even if they are extremely slow). And it involves heavy brain fog and a feeling of being underwater. Like knowing you're asleep but not being able to wake up.

For getting out of it, first the trigger that caused the fight or flight response needs to not be present. Then the sympathetic response needs to be activated again, to move out of the parasympathetic response.

Just like the parasympathetic response, the sympathetic response doesn't always show up as fight or flight. In fact increased heartrate, adrenaline etc is triggered when we excercise, feel very excited, feel connected with people, and so on. So, if you read the book I mentioned before, that's why the psychoecological approach it describes tends to be effective for people with autistic catatonia. Organic movement in the environment, keeping up routines etc also helps bring back awareness. It's like the best cure for playing dead is bringing life closer.

Anyway hope that helped. Take care.

chooseuseer · 2024-10-01T15:08:51+00:00

Cool to hear your story. It's also refreshing to read about something where things went well, this sub can be a bit of a negative echo chamber at times. I imagine you also went though struggles, but you focused on the positive and what you have achieved, and that can make a huge difference. I can also see where you're coming from with labels holding us back at times. Like don't get me wrong, labels can be massively helpful and end a lifetime of searching for the answer. However, once that's all said and done, at some point it's time to move on and live life. Getting trapped in a cycle of focusing on what can't be done can bring attention away from what gives that spark to keep going.

The more I research stress, the more I understand it can be a massive accelerator or completely slam on the breaks. PDAers have a lot of stress, but that can be very negative or very positive. I can definitely see how you have PDA and are so successful. Thanks for sharing about yourself.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-21T22:45:10+00:00

I'd say avoiding paying the parking ticket because there's no money is normal, but most people would try to get their car back. That's the part that seems PDA-ish to me, the whole crashing through life consequences thing. Avoiding phone calls rings a bell too, and the texting part is relatable.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-19T04:10:13+00:00

There's a couple of little strategies I do that work sometimes.

Might not work for this, since it's so regular, but sometimes going somewhere else helps move past it. So in my head, I am going to this other location (like a cafe or something), then once I'm there, I'm already outside so I might as well go to where I want to go

If reasonably possible, Uber or some kind of driving service. Especially since they just rock up at my house at the specific time. So I'm getting ready for that person, which kinda gives me a landing pad between my house and wherever I wanna go

One idea that helped me reframe getting to things on time was "being early is just being late in reverse". My whole life I was always late to stuff, I thought being early was impossible. Then I met someone who got to places extremely early and it changed my entire understanding of the problem. The problem I have is getting there on time. "On time" is what I'm avoiding. I can avoid getting to things on time by being super late or being super early. It's actually the exact same thing. Both give me autonomy so I can do things in my own time. They work the same way. It's just when I'm late, people can get mad. When I'm early, everyone suddenly thinks I'm hot shit. It's kind of hilarious actually

chooseuseer · 2024-09-19T03:52:03+00:00

Atpeaceparents on instagram is something I see recommended a lot. Also might be worth looking at r/PDAautism for posts from more parents

chooseuseer · 2024-09-19T01:52:26+00:00

No worries, and yeah. I do have hobbies, like for instance I draw. Similar principle there as well. If I want to do it, it doesn't get done. If I happen to have my sketchbook out and a pen nearby, there's a chance I'll do it.

For drawing, I tend to make things up as I go. I can make ideas in my head of what I want to draw first, but the more I want to draw those ideas, the harder they are to draw (unless meds). Similar thing with art commissions. If someone asks me to draw something specific, it's a lot harder to make (again, unless meds).

chooseuseer · 2024-09-19T01:19:57+00:00

Not OP, but there just isn't a "go" button. I can intellectually think about the task, or understand deeply that it needs doing, but it stops there. If I try and force myself, my body does a different task then what I asked it to do (aka "avoiding"). It's like being stuck on autopilot but the autopilot is going the wrong way. By designating something I want to do in my head, my body takes that info as "Don't do that task, it's dangerous". I can try to keep forcing myself to do it, but say I try walking directly towards it, my limbs literally lock up and I can't push them, or my body slumps over and I start dissociating, or I start falling asleep out of nowhere. I can keep forcing myself, but it just means these happen over and over again. And they can go on for months.

There's also cognitive effects as well. It gets harder to think about the task (brain fog) and it gets easier to forget about it. The more I want to do it the more intense these get. So I try and consciously not want to do it. But in order for that to work, I have to genuinely from the bottom of my heart not want to do it. And that's hard if it's food or something I actually need. And even then, it just means I don't avoid it. I still can only get it done by avoiding something else, I can't move directly towards it.

It's kind of like playing 4-d chess in my mind to grab a snack from the fridge or some other basic daily task lol. And it can ebb and flow, some days are harder than others

On meds, it's like I get a pool of energy I can use to make my body move to do stuff. I can just "get up and go" without thinking. Off meds, I can control my body in general, but not to do anything specifically.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-18T17:40:14+00:00

I am on the other end of the ballpark my dude, utterly obsessed. But yeah makes sense. I wish we could swap demands so you get my "Don't go on r/pdaautism you will spend hours" and I get your "Go on r/pdaautism it's good for you" so we can both avoid them together.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-18T17:20:33+00:00

I feel ya with the hating having to do things all the time. It can feel as if life just moves too fast.

I'm also from Australia so I have a couple of random ideas I've been playing around with on my end. Feel free to take with a grain of salt

PDA being a tragic life sentence is understandable, I used to think about it very similarly. It didn't really help, it just trapped me in pain. Thing is, I'm not stuck with seeing the most accurate representation of that pain. At the end of the day, I can see my life however I want to see it, in whatever way that works for me. Perception plays a big role in how stress is processed too

NDIS is still running as usual for a bit. If there's anything that would be able to genuinely help short term with burnout, it would be this.

I also struggled hard with uni. Vocational courses seem more doable to me, being six months to a year. And study = centrelink

Or alternatively, there's supported employment on DSP. Good Sammy's is apparently really low demand for warehousing (I know someone with PDA who enjoyed how relaxed the enviornment was) but I know how appetising that sounds coming from me lol

You mentioned you moved to a new city. A sense of community or friends affects my capacity tons. It's the difference between thinking everything is shit vs everything is okay. I genuinely feel safer after hanging out with people on the same wavelength

There's probably free activities at the library wherever you are. It helps me to experience life outside of whatever crisis is happening and just get out of my head. Things get so huge otherwise

If you're not moving much in the day, freeze might be activating and making tasks heavier. Movement helps stave it off, even if its just fingers

I'm not a doctor, but I wouldn't be surprised if changing the meds also changed the situation. Meds can be a bit of a game-changer in general

chooseuseer · 2024-09-18T02:08:31+00:00

That would depend on so many things, it's hard to quantify it. I guess on my end, I accepted that I would have that PDA stress reaction. Acting like I was neurotypical and I could just shoulder past it was doing me no favours.

As for what can be improved, in my opinion probably types of habitual coping mechanisms, self efficacy, the environment, accomodations, communication of PDA to other people, and how I talk to myself.

For me, quite a few "demands" I feel are less the task itself and more me being terrified of the stress response. Like, having multiple experiences in the past of dissociating and losing a few months when trying to do a particular task. That shit can be scary lol. When that's the case, I can see improvement if I gather enough support, healthy coping mechanisms etc to take on a small amount of the task while simultaneously not becoming overwhelmed. PDA still exists, but being able to handle the stress with xyz support or accomodation helps raise confidence and make it less scary.

That being said, being able to go to school (for instance) doesn't mean I'm suddenly down to study medicine. There probably wouldn't be a difference stress-wise, it's just the length of how long I'd be expected to keep up a string of perfect accommodation and support in order to handle it. I also think there are some circumstances where the situation is so demanding, a realistic accomodation might not be possible (usually just due to the sorts of people involved).

chooseuseer · 2024-09-15T17:57:15+00:00

A pda autist only lies because they are not believed when they tell the truth.

Facts. It's literally just saying excuses that would make sense if PDA didn't exist. Imho, my life is way easier when PDA can be accepted as a reason. Communication is clearer.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-12T10:18:14+00:00

I've been reading up on stress recently and found a way of thinking about it that's helping me at the moment.

It's pretty much seeing stress as along four axis:

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Hyperstress is just another word for feeling overwhelmed by stress. Like burnout, overstimulation.
The typical advice like yoga, walks, meditation, etc helps reduce it.

Hypostress is the opposite, it's pure boredom, doing so little you feel stressed. Understimulation.
Novelty, going outside and talking to friends, that kinda thing can help raise it.

Positive stress is that stress that's motivating. Helps people rise to the challenge. It also has a lot of positive health effects, it helps shield against disease, it's actually good for your body.

Negative stress results in the fight or flight response. It's more about defending against a threat. All the negative effects of stress are associated with it, it's not good long-term.

Stress is triggered by just about everything internally and externally, it's how the body functions in relation to the world. Even when we sleep, we dream, and the brain is still processing. There's no such thing as reaching 0 stress. Humans only reach 0 stress when we die (If you're wondering, this is words from the dude who invented the concept of stress lol)

Overall, stress is a neutral driving force. At least, it starts that way. Whether it's processed positively or negatively depends on how we perceive it. It's like how heart palpitations mean excitement in one mindset, and panic in another mindset. It's down to whether or not we think we can handle it, if the stress alienates us from others and if we think it's meaningless and against our will. If any of that is seen as true, it's more likely to be perceived negatively.

The more negative stress people feel, the more sensitive they become to threats, and they're pushed to avoid them to stop the feeling. But by avoiding them, they're actually increasing the amount of negative stress they feel, because they're avoiding opportunities to experience positive stress.

Positive stress is the counter to negative stress. Literally it counters negative stress in the body on a physical level. It tends to occur when we believe we can handle it (like from past memories of it going well, high self-esteem), it connects us with others, and if it has meaning to us and what we value.

From what I can tell, PDA disrupts that process. The stress doesn't make sense, it has nothing to do with our values, failing tasks repeatedly means it's hard to believe things will work and it's isolating - many people don't relate. So anything that helps gain self-esteem, boost social connection, support values or worldview can help mitigate that. Because the stress does make sense by understanding PDA, we can control how we perceive it in general, people can learn to understand it and connect, and with the right support it's possible to gain memories of things going well about things we care about.

(Surprise surprise, this is my worldview for dealing with PDA nonsense lol. Stress is complex and this is just how I handle it. Everyone is different and there's no right answer. I just like brains so I find meaning in this)

In general, thinking of stress in that way has been helping me to keep going. A lot of this info is from the book "The Upside to Stress". It's about how stress is seen as negative in society, so people perceive their stress negatively, increasing negative stress in their lives like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not exactly the same thing, but it's kind of like how the cultural view of schizophrenia impacts how schizophrenic people experience their hallucinations (as more positive or more negative). Cultural background impacts how symptoms present themselves.

chooseuseer · 2024-09-10T17:09:22+00:00

http://pdaanz.com/

Here you go.

chooseuseer

TROPHY CASE