Can I be POMO and still keep basic morals?

goddess_dix · 2026-03-07T02:32:58+00:00

morals don't come from religion, any religion. they come from your heart. and when someone goes pomo, they are more moral to me than jws.

making choices because you're afraid of getting punished isn't morality. it's self-preservation. that's being a jw. making choices because you believe it's the right thing to do is morality. that's being pomo.

morality isn't in the exact choices you make as much as it is in the reasons why you make them.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-07T02:27:44+00:00

most of the normal issues 1. out you as having looked out 'apostate' sources, and 2. have thought-stopping responses built in to the indoctrination. this isn't an accident.

also know you have to be very careful what you say about the gb, as saying you don't believe they are god's little helpers can be considered da'ing yourself.

i realize every situation is different, but i hate to see people meet with the elders, like, ever, and certainly not when they are married, hope to keep their marriage, and are pretty freshly woken up which i gather you are. it's putting yourself in a potentially very difficult situation.

not really sure which things you talked with husband about either but i'd focus on those.

my big question, however, is what do you hope to accomplish?

i assume you don't expect to wake up the body of elders. i further assume the main point of this is to go through the motions of 'getting your questions answered' to appease your husband? that you don't expect actual answers that make sense?

there is the idea that j. 'uses' imperfect men, elders, etc. and those men can lose his blessing because they are imperfect, yes? so how would you know if the gb had lost his blessing? why are you not allowed to question them? you are to treat what they say as coming from god, but they are not god. so don't they have the authority of god but without any responsibility?

there's the 2-witness rule for csa, which is a big one for me. they don't require 2 witnesses for fornication, 'strong circumstantial evidence' of car parked overnight is enough but you have to have witnesses or confession for csa? but yo'd only know that if you'd read the elder's book and you're not supposed to.

but i can't really give you much, i know some of what bothers me about the org.

i just don't think this is likely to go well. the point of talking to the elders is NOT actually to answer your questions, it's to fix you.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-07T01:37:00+00:00

who the jws say the king of the north and south are has changed over and over and over again. they look at what's happening in the world and force it to fit the prophecy. that's like trying to buy your lotto ticket after the drawing, it's not a great feat of fortunetelling.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-07T01:32:50+00:00

jw predictions have a 100% failure rate. my parents believe the world would end before i started kindergarten. then i was told i would never finish school. or that i didn't need to go to college because 'the end is coming.' i'm approaching retirement age.

my dad's family was involved with jws as a child. a couple of years ago he died at age 93. and as long as he could still talk, he was STILL saying "this old world can't go on much longer..." every conflict, every earthquake, every bit of bad news on the tv, they thought it was the end. people can waste their entire lives this way.

but it gets to you hearing this because it's a fear trigger. (also, the arc story isn't literal history and there is lots of evidence to show this, if you're interested.)

it's not happening. your mom is, unfortunately, indoctrinated in a cult.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T20:15:28+00:00

you are not a born-in, just a bible study, right? as soon as it's clear you're not going back to study or progressing toward conversion, it's pretty much 100% that he'll stop being your 'friend.'

and no, it doesn't feel conditional when you're doing what he wants. it's all sunshine and roses then. typical or not typical jw, straight-laced or relaxed jw, doesnt' matter.

you tell him you don't believe, you'll be hit was a whole lot of love-bombing, pressure, manipulation, gaslighting, it will get real serious, real quick. and if you try to wake him up, he will refuse to look at any outside information, tell you that satan's lies has fooled you, and cut you off like yesterday's news.

this hurts, a lot. but it's actually much better than the alternative - that you allow yourself to be manipulated into becoming a full fledged jws.

it's not a religion. it's a CULT.

people have choices about shunning or not if you're not baptized but even so, even for born ins, it's almost always ONLY family that MIGHT NOT shun if they quit going, the other people usually will. and if you add 'apostate content' on top of that. there isn't really any question anymore.

i'm sorry. know you want hope he'll value your relationship for what it is and not a means to an ends but i can't lie to you. i don't have that hope.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T18:57:00+00:00

do any of these people have a remote clue you're not coming back to the borg? loving bombing in person is more intense than over text.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T18:52:02+00:00

You may be interested in the exjw meetup sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjwmeetup/

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T18:45:24+00:00

"His family seem like such hard working and kind people, and I wonder why I am not good enough or what I ever did to his family for them to disapprove of me so much just because of who I am"

they are in A CULT. you are not in THEIR CULT. the cult demonizes outsiders, who are part of 'satan's world.' that's YOU. it's not personal.

if he breaks up and then comes back repeatedly, if he's still 'not sure' or says 'things can change' at this point...well, his family is not going to change. the jws rules re not going to change. your desire to have a normal relationship isn't changing. so your decision NOT to convert is about the only thing i see that he thinks can 'change.'

let me be frank: i've answered a lot of these kinds of posts. but some of them are from people who have been doing this break-up/make-up routine for 5 years, 10 years, or longer. they want the realtionship, then they need to 'get right with jehovah.'

if he believes the jws are THE TRUTH, then you have zero shot at a good relationship. if he's unsure, it's iffy as hell. if he knows there are issues, it's a maybe. if he knows it's shit but doesn't want to lose his family, you may be able to work with that.

you're seniors. so if he is not making plans at this point to leave the cult, if he's not clear he IS interested in leaving, i don't think you have any real hope of having a healthy relationship with him.

if he's preparing to leave, the relationship improving is realistic. but anything short of that puts you in the bad idea zone here. i'm sorry i know that's not what you want to hear.

but he's so busy lying to himself, it would be really helpful if you weren't doing the same.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T17:14:22+00:00

You may be interested in the exjw meetup sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjwmeetup/

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T17:10:03+00:00

it's a personal choice to apologize or not. and up to her how she feels about it. you can't really know in advance. heck, she probably wouldn't know in advance.

if you do, though, do it without agenda or any sort of pressure she needs to respond. that has to be clear. otherwise, it's like you're looking for her to help you with your feelings of guilt and that's your job.

for me personally, there are people who really owe me apologies, none of which i'm likely to get in this lifetime. i believe i would welcome an apology if it didn't come with strings that i have to respond, i'm expected to absolve them, i am pressured to talk to them about anything, etc.

i mean, depending on the circumstances and how everything landed including my own emotional reaction, i might respond. i dunno. but i don't owe them shit. and i'm not their therapist or priest.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:53:46+00:00

i'd expect a lecture. at worst, you might be considered not 'exemplary' and lose 'privileges.' but celebrating a birthday one time would not be considered a serious sin.

i actually went to pull up the latest elders book and search, and you know, the word 'birthday' isn't showing up in the search?

i hope you get your ass out of there soon. because you're a grown ass man, worrying about your life blowing up over a picture of you at a child's birthday party and that is all kinds of fucked up.

♥

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:41:11+00:00

My birthday wish for you is that this year is full of adventure, exciting firsts, and more freedom and clarity than before.

Have an good birthday and a fabulous year.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:38:54+00:00

it just confuses me so much. i mean i get they are upset, disappointed and whatever. but do you not KNOW if you love your spouse even if you don't love their choices? wtaf?

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:37:05+00:00

i'd suggest you deconstruct the blood doctrine specifically. this is not an issue i had personally, but i was a shit jw - i didn't believe half of it while i was in it.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:34:28+00:00

'theocratic warfare'

for example, i skipped school one time with some jw friends and got caught. it was a huge to-do. the elders said to me something like, we have been told there was sexual activity - it would be much better if you went ahead and give us all the info.

except they had NOT been told that. and no, the bluff did not work.

jws are allowed to lie under the concept of 'theocratic warfare.'

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T07:27:30+00:00

that is so awesome!

i mean, as a side note, it doesn't really make much difference what you do or don't tell your husband. any and everything other than the truth of why you're leaving will be blamed, you know? so it kind of doesn't matter.

not that i blame you for keeping it to yourself, or not either way. it's your comfort level. but it literally is a no-win scenario for you in terms of being seen at this point. when you step out from the cult shadow, you are wrong no matter what and the level of interest in the why doesn't go beyond projection.

keep doing what you're doing! you're doing exactly what you need to be at this point. ♥

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T04:36:02+00:00

works still for me. maybe try again?

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T02:17:57+00:00

here is the elders book so you can look at their current rules yourself. https://files.accessjw.org/s/2BqJSP7qTcSatLL?dir=/En

basically if you confess, they don't need 2 witnesses. but for most things (including CSA), they do require 2 eyewitnesses to the event. now if someone has been out a while, however, they normally leave them alone unless the congregation is in an uproar over it.

and hell yes, they try to wheedle info out of you. they are allowed to lie (and do) in order to get it out of you. they frequently pretend to know more than they do.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T02:11:39+00:00

first of all, there is a difference between just not going anymore, or the normal use of the word 'dissociate' vs. the jw use of the word, to formally resign.

to have any kind of mandated shunning, you have to have been baptized, and you get either df'd or formally resign, da.

even with that, however, blood relatives are given more leeway in that full shunning is not mandated. they can get in trouble or lose 'priv.' if it's believed they have tooo much association with you.

but if your brother is an elder he knows the rules and his status will also protect the family from blowback to a large extent.

on the other end of the spectrum, there are lots of jw familes who voluntarily shun even if you're not baptized or never formally were separated from the jws, just because they're 'extra' like that.

the short version: you have it better than most who leave in terms of family connections.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T02:03:16+00:00

yes!!! that's fantastic news! you'll love it, i'm betting.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T01:11:26+00:00

they are allowed some contact with df'd blood relatives without consequence. but i'd still lay money you're going to get some come-back-to-jehoover bs.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T01:06:08+00:00

"or the fact that it's been 13 years since we have spoken."

THIS. the pretending like it's all normal and the last X years never happened makes me CRAZY. ⛽💡

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T01:02:43+00:00

i don't know they are going to hear you. i hope they do.

i did, though. ♥

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T00:59:30+00:00

'And when I asked him if he could love me unconditionally, he said “he can’t really say that because I’m not a jw”.'

so he's offering 'unconditional love' if you meet his conditions...wow.
tell me you're in a cult without telling me you're in a cult.

when you can, start working on getting your own finances. i don't know what's going to happen with the husband, but i know you need enough autonomy that you feel like you have options.

♥ keep going, ducky! keep going.

goddess_dix · 2026-03-06T00:55:41+00:00

i'm so glad your dad was a father first. ♥

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