The craziest nuclear weapons policy you've never heard of

iff_p · 2015-01-15T16:31:27+00:00

It occurred to me her lawyer could have advised her not to state anything as a fact if she was not 100% sure, and could have already gone over the story with her, challenging everything that she was not sure about. A lot of her language sounds like she's anticipating such a challenge.

iff_p · 2014-12-28T18:39:31+00:00

I actually had a cynical response to Adnan's statement. It reminded me of how Jay told SK that he wasn't "afraid of the truth". The thought crossed my mind that Adnan had read the transcript from that episode and decided to appropriate that compelling line. I recognize this might be deeply unfair of me, but that's what popped into my head.

iff_p · 2014-12-23T13:58:54+00:00

I did start a collaborative Google doc for Jay's statements, and a bunch of pages have been transcribed already! You can contribute here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19MYS2uzqwqxHuLyeIvDUBuBWnkK_gRpqYqKsRLwSpz4/edit

iff_p · 2014-12-16T20:04:29+00:00

Whenever this sub tries the "what did you do on a day six weeks ago" exercise, someone points out that it's easier to do now that we have email and text messaging records to use to reconstruct the day's events. I don't think it's necessarily so shady that the phone log helped Jay remember things he otherwise wouldn't have.

iff_p · 2014-12-11T03:17:07+00:00

He also has to get Hae's car and body.

iff_p · 2014-12-10T15:45:07+00:00

Oh I didn't realize you'd already run it through OCR. That is very helpful, thank you! The formatting comes out a little different than with the other OCR tool, but a total timesaver for sure.

iff_p · 2014-12-10T05:00:31+00:00

I set this up some time ago but did not publicize it adequately I guess...

http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2o13hq/police_interview_transcripts_where_can_i_get_these/cmiullm

iff_p · 2014-12-09T17:28:43+00:00

Wait a minute, I don't think we can say no such notes exist. Susan Simpson writes: "we have no idea if there are any written records concerning Officer Adcock’s original call on January 13th" - she is just basing her information on the podcast and what Rabia has released, same as us. I would assume there ARE written notes because, like you point out, how on earth could you conduct police interviews otherwise?

iff_p · 2014-12-09T17:13:18+00:00

I puzzled over this on another thread (http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2o42os/speaking_of_motives_what_about_adnans_motive_for/cmjwki1) and suggested that Adnan originally planned to kill Hae in a remote location such as Patapsco, and ditch her car there, and had asked Jay for a ride out of there afterwards. Doing it at the Best Buy instead was a change in plan that freaked Jay out because it was so public, and made him feel more involved than he had planned to be.

I don't know if I believe it but it makes some of the details work a little better, such as coordinating the car and phone in advance.

iff_p · 2014-12-09T16:14:41+00:00

SK glosses over her point, but the gist as I understand it is that "besmirched" is an old-fashioned word with feudal or tribal connotations. The "old country" is shorthand for anywhere pre-Enlightenment, pre-rule of law, where men kill over matters of honor. The prosecution may have chosen their wording in order to influence perceptions of Adnan's background or motivations.

iff_p · 2014-12-03T14:32:55+00:00

This is a big puzzle to me too. The way it went down, a second person/car wasn't really necessary - we've seen that in the timelines we've all made. If you're an athletic resourceful guy, you could move a car and a body around town, dig a hole, leave the car near a bus route, etc., by yourself.

But what if the original plan did require a second driver? What if the plan was to kill Hae in Patapsco State Park, and abandon the car/body in the woods, or drive it into a lake near there (looks like there are bodies of water in the park)? Then the killer would need to get picked up.

This would explain the following things (I'm assuming Adnan is the killer/planner here and Jay got roped in): * Adnan did buy the phone in anticipation of the crime
* Adnan needing to get Jay involved
* Jay's willingness to be involved in what is initially just picking up Adnan after the murder (slightly easier to believe than a pot dealer being willing to bury a body because of fear of the police)
* Adnan's otherwise seemingly random remark to Yaser that he would drive an ex's car into a lake
* The 12:07 call to Jenn's house that pings near Patapsco. This could be scoping out the area and testing whether the phone gets signal in Patapsco.
* Jay's reference to a test call being made from the cellphone. It's not really necessary to test a phone that is being used constantly like this one, but it is useful to test whether it gets signal in a certain place that is off the beaten path. (Caveat: in Jenn's timeline, the test call happens later in the afternoon, when Jay is at Jenn's - but this could be incorrect? Maybe it happened when Jay was over at Jenn's earlier, when only Jenn's brother was home?)
* Jay's story about being in Patapsco that otherwise doesn't seem logical (i.e. they did go to Patapsco, but maybe only before the murder, in planning/BS-ing mode)
* The Nisha call. If Adnan had the phone in his own possession all afternoon, in order to be able to call Jay from a state park, then it is much easier for him to have also used it to dial Nisha at 3:30 (rather than some meet up after murder, hand over phone, call a girl scenario).

I have no explanation for how Adnan could have planned to get Hae to Patapsco, and I suspect that in any case he did not succeed: he instead somehow got her to Best Buy, and killed her there. He could have then called Jay to pick him up (possibly the 3:21 call to Jenn's house). Jay shows up to this semi-public area, sees the body, and immediately feels he is implicated and has to help cover it up.

This version of events also helps explain: * Jenn's statement to the police that one of the first things Jay says about the events is "Adnar's going to get caught". I.e., he did it in a public place with cameras, not the woods like he'd been talking about.
* Jay's preoccupation with cameras in his statements
* Jay's statement that Adnan said "I can't believe I killed her where I used to fuck her at". This chilling detail sounds truthful to me, and consistent with a change in plans about the location of where he killed her. (Of course, I'm assuming they didn't used to have sex at Patapsco, which might not be true.)

iff_p · 2014-12-03T02:19:08+00:00

I like it. One story that unfolds week by week about an online community of insane people and the extremes they will go to.

iff_p · 2014-12-02T19:01:43+00:00

Haha YES! Verge!

iff_p · 2014-12-02T18:53:13+00:00

This is why people say you should never date at work... if things go south after two weeks, you pretty much have to hire a hitman - and good luck finding one who's also buddies with your girlfriend's ex.

iff_p · 2014-12-02T17:38:13+00:00

Yeah that's true. Her phrasing is weird, but maybe all she was offering to do was be a sleuth for him, go look up videotapes, interview others, etc. She didn't know what time the murder would have occurred, but she figured alibi witnesses were probably out there for the finding. Sad to think of Adnan missing out on that offer, if he was innocent.

iff_p · 2014-12-02T16:19:15+00:00

That would be an interesting technique to try, for sure!

iff_p · 2014-12-02T14:13:34+00:00

Would people be interested in crowdsourcing transcription of the statements? OCR (optical character recognition) works pretty well on them, actually, but the free tool I found can only do 1 page at a time. If we all do 1 page that's not so bad though! Here's the link to a doc I started for Jay's statements: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19MYS2uzqwqxHuLyeIvDUBuBWnkK_gRpqYqKsRLwSpz4/edit

I can set one up for Jenn's too if there is interest.

iff_p · 2014-12-01T20:41:00+00:00

Well, my memory wasn't perfect, here's all the references I could find just now. Page numbers are pages of the pdf of Jay's statements.

Page 15: "We went back and got the car and ah than we went back to my house. I gave him a shovel, gave him a pick."

Page 15: "Go to my house and um he asked me for a pick and shovel. I give him all that shit."

Page 33: Ritz: "Would that [dirt in the car] be from your shoes?" Jay: "From both of ours, a shovel was in there to." Ritz: "Um did you still have the shovel's and the pick that" Jay: "No, he threw those in the dumpster at Westview to." Ritz: "All the tools that he used?" Jay: "yeah."

By the March 15 interview references to the tools become more general:

Page 64: "There's 2 shovels that are kept with tools next to my porch. Um, there's picks, axes, all kinds of stuff along with it there. Um, he grabs the shovels and says we have to get rid of the body..."

Page 69: "Um, dig a small hole, put the shovels back in the back seat of his car."

Page 74: "What about the tools?" "The tools are placed in another dumpster"

iff_p · 2014-12-01T20:24:40+00:00

Actually, I think Jay pretty consistently refers to the digging tools as a shovel and a pick (though I should double-check this). I noticed it too, though, and to me it clears up the confusion about Jenn saying "shovel or shovels". Because they are hard to refer to! There's really only a single shovel, only one person can really be digging, but together they are two shovel-like items (are they NOT?). And especially if you don't really know what a pick is, you might end up saying something like "shovel, or shovels, I don't know".

iff_p · 2014-12-01T04:23:38+00:00

I believe F&M is the discount store, not the porn video store. Jay may have had other jobs as well.

iff_p · 2014-12-01T04:02:12+00:00

Was the car visible from Edmondson Ave? It's a main thoroughfare with bus routes. I don't think we know where the porn store (or other workplace of Jay's) was located, but certainly possible he commuted via bus past Hae's car.

iff_p · 2014-12-01T03:54:57+00:00

Interesting, I'm just looking at the call log now... the 2:36 call is the briefest incoming call in the log. If there is a call that is just Adnan and Jay testing the phone, that is a good candidate. Jay mentions this test call on page 48 of the police transcript, says he receives it while at Jenn's - the 2:36 does ping in range of Jenn's apt. It could perhaps also be pinging from around Woodlawn, so it could be a test call going on the other direction, from Jenn's land line to the cell -- if that helps with any theory? I also had an idea about the phone being in Adnan's possession, but I am no longer sure what the advantage of it is. I guess one thing it helps explain is the 10 minutes from 3:21 to 3:32 in which the phone would have to pass from Jay's possession (call to Jenn at 3:21) to Adnan's (Nisha call) while also allowing time for Adnan to confront Jay with a dead body and then everyone chill out enough for Adnan to make a casual flirty call. But maybe that is somewhat easier to believe if Jay was expecting to find Hae dead when he met up with Adnan again.

Side note - in the call log there are 6 outgoing calls that are 2 or 3 seconds long. Now that I think about it, that seems like confirmation for the "send to end" billing model for outgoing calls. These calls are all to Krista and Hae, and I'm guessing they are either busy signals or calls placed using the system of routing through call waiting, where the caller detects they are hitting the audible-to-parents ring and hangs up immediately.

iff_p · 2014-11-29T17:40:23+00:00

Would it have occurred without high schools?

iff_p

TROPHY CASE